How to Twist Paul... Carnal arts and Crafts (Spiritual Play-doh) Part 1

Is Romans 7:15-25 about “real” Struggle and Failure

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul was as sinless as The Son Of God

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Struggled with real sin to the day he was beheaded

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,425
1,720
North America
✟83,484.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I’m going to make this one simple... and assume the reader knows their bible.

Places to twist Paul, so self righteous teachings can be continued...

1) Go to Romans 7 and pretend Paul is speaking of a pretend struggle that never happened or happened before Paul was “In Christ”

Play-doh Creation... You don’t have to admit that Christians can and do fail, when tempted, and are subject to physically sinning, long after they are saved... until physical death or snatching away :doh:

I think this could be a multi part OP if it is well received... because there are so many places that Paul speaks clearly... yet some individuals like to have Play-Doh fun with.

giphy.gif
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LostMarbels

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
There is no such thing as a "carnal" Christian. A person either carnal or they are a Christian. Paul did not say that the Corinthian believers were actually "carnal", he said that although he acknowledged that they were genuine believers, he could talk to them only as if they were carnal, not that they were actually carnal; in that they were not conducting themselves in the way they should be as genuine born again believers.

So, to accuse a believer of being carnal is to say they are not born again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grip Docility
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,425
1,720
North America
✟83,484.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is no such thing as a "carnal" Christian. A person either carnal or they are a Christian. Paul did not say that the Corinthian believers were actually "carnal", he said that although he acknowledged that they were genuine believers, he could talk to them only as if they were carnal, not that they were actually carnal; in that they were not conducting themselves in the way they should be as genuine born again believers.

So, to accuse a believer of being carnal is to say they are not born again.

That is my point, exactly. :p

For the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
 
Upvote 0

bcbsr

Newbie
Mar 17, 2003
4,085
2,318
Visit site
✟193,956.00
Faith
Christian
I’m going to make this one simple... and assume the reader knows their bible.

Places to twist Paul, so self righteous teachings can be continued...

1) Go to Romans 7 and pretend Paul is speaking of a pretend struggle that never happened or happened before Paul was “In Christ”
I think he's talking about his struggle with sin as a Christian. Notice the correlation between Rom 7 with Gal 5:16,17 "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish." There he's speaking of people who have the Spirit and therefore are in Christ and yet he says of them that due to the influence of the sinful nature "you do not do the things that you wish". Likewise in Rom 7:18-20 "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do— this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." So likewise he's talking about his Christian experience.

I believe what Paul is talking about is that though in his inner being he delights in God’s law, as is the case for all true believers, yet one should not expect perfect performance as the sinful nature also influence behavior. Basically he's explaining why believers aren't perfectly sinless, though they don't characteristically sin due to the regenerate nature.

Furthermore notice where Rom 7 is located. He finished talking about how to get saved from Romans 1-5. Romans 7 is sandwiched between Romans 6 and 8 which all talk about sanctification. In the beginning of Romans 7 he speaks of the marriage illustration, which last the life of the spouse, in this case the spouse being the law of sin and death. Having pass from death to life (John 5:24), the law of sin and death no longer applies, which is where he goes with Romans 8.
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2 And thus sin no longer affects one's destiny.

The idea of the latter part of Romans 7 is that the sinful nature remains as a squatter, a parasite in us. It's not us, but it is in us. While it doesn't affect our destiny, it remains in the body but is gone after we die.
"Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God— through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Rom 7:24,25
 
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,425
1,720
North America
✟83,484.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think he's talking about his struggle with sin as a Christian. Notice the correlation between Rom 7 with Gal 5:16,17 "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish." There he's speaking of people who have the Spirit and therefore are in Christ and yet he says of them that due to the influence of the sinful nature "you do not do the things that you wish". Likewise in Rom 7:18-20 "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do— this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." So likewise he's talking about his Christian experience.

I believe what Paul is talking about is that though in his inner being he delights in God’s law, as is the case for all true believers, yet one should not expect perfect performance as the sinful nature also influence behavior. Basically he's explaining why believers aren't perfectly sinless, though they don't characteristically sin due to the regenerate nature.

Furthermore notice where Rom 7 is located. He finished talking about how to get saved from Romans 1-5. Romans 7 is sandwiched between Romans 6 and 8 which all talk about sanctification. In the beginning of Romans 7 he speaks of the marriage illustration, which last the life of the spouse, in this case the spouse being the law of sin and death. Having pass from death to life (John 5:24), the law of sin and death no longer applies, which is where he goes with Romans 8.
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2 And thus sin no longer affects one's destiny.

The idea of the latter part of Romans 7 is that the sinful nature remains as a squatter, a parasite in us. It's not us, but it is in us. While it doesn't affect our destiny, it remains in the body but is gone after we die.
"Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God— through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Rom 7:24,25

:oldthumbsup:
 
Upvote 0