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Featured How to shut down a JW 101

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

    Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    Jesus IS the Almighty I AM

    ALL PRAISE TO YAHWEH!!!
     
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  2. “Paisios”

    “Paisios” Sinner Supporter

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    How to shut down a JW 101”

    -My approach is to listen to them, and in love rather than conflict, try to correct the differences I see between us, based on Scripture and early Church teaching, but always wrapped in welcome, gentleness and caring. Most of the JWs I have seen recently are young teenagers with a parent, who are uncomfortable, scared, nervous, and used to receiving abuse from those they try to proselytize...regardless of the results, they need our love and compassion, not aggressive argument.
     
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  3. “Paisios”

    “Paisios” Sinner Supporter

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    It seems to me that one can win the battle theologically and intellectually, but still lose the war by a lack of love. Most JWs I have met are sincerely doing what they believe is right, and though they need correction for error, also need to be commended for their desire to serve God (often in very hostile and uncomfortable circumstances). A loving attitude means more than correct doctrine alone.
     
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  4. drjean

    drjean Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Arguing does no good...they have been brainwashed and memorize what jargon they are taught. If you get them off the hamster wheel of speech, they pause, ignore your statement and go right on with what they "know".

    I agree, though, as with any non-believer, the ONLY thing to discuss is just WHOM they believe Jesus is! Nothing else matters, no other topic is fruitful until they can see that Jesus IS God.
     
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  5. “Paisios”

    “Paisios” Sinner Supporter

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    But often discussion follows our actions and attitudes. If we are not welcoming and charitable, further discussion will be behind the stone wall of JW teaching, rather than around the coffee table of Christ’s love, and will have no hope of any fruit.

    John 13:35
     
  6. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    The JW's I have talked to have answers for that Scripture.
    When I talk to them I show them Jesus accepting worship and the Scripture that says of God that He will not give His glory to another and the fact that there is only one God, none beside Him. So Jesus Christ must be the One True God.
     
  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The one i talked to didn't. They can sure be slippery tho!
     
  8. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    I remember talking to one about how Jesus Christ appeared to take away the sin of the world. Hebrews 9:26
    And he told me that Jesus only appeared to do that, He didn't actually do that, we were still under the law and it's curse.
    I am not certain if all JW's believe that, he just may have not been prepared for that Scripture.
     
  9. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    WOw. I didn't know that some of them still believed we are still under Old Covenant. Maybe it was a fluke? How unfortunate for him /her to think that.
     
  10. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    I once had a conversation with a JW at the door. He and two of his friends came to tell people about something, probably the Kingdom or deteriorating world conditions and the Kingdom something along those lines away, and he had his bible in his little side bag and took it out and read a passage. I said, "please wait a second while I get my glasses so I can read along with you, do you have a spare bible or shall we share?" I got my glasses, he had a spare, and we chatted for a little while about the passage he'd read. I asked him "what do you teach about baptism?" and he said something about dedication to Jehovah and Jesus Christ. So I opened the spare bible he'd let me use to First Peter and read "21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience),o through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. p for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.q" And I asked him, how does baptism save you?

    We had an interesting discussion about baptism and salvation. No rancour, nothing mean, and they were genuinely interested and when we finished they said they'd study the passages I'd shown them and see what the Society had to say about them. I do not know if any of the discussion made a difference to them or played a role in any change of heart in any of them but they did hear the gospel and that is what "witnessing for Jehovah" ought to be about.
     
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  11. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    Until they whip out their translation of the bible and show you the Greek and tell you to give them proof what you are saying is true compared to their translation. Those aren't the right versus to shut them down.

    On top of it all you only want to provoke their thoughts not win a debate or argument. You want to show them something in the bible and give them a message that will stir their spirit to search for God themselves rather than continue being spooned watchtower propaganda.

    You can show them things like how Jesus said He is the truth the life and the way and that every knee will bow.

    Good luck out there.
     
  12. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'd wager those verses against their translations.

    It's good to ask if they need the subjective Watchtower commentary in order to read the Bible at all.
     
  13. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    All I'm saying is I know how traumatic the conversion from JW can be and it's best not to be harsh with them but to actually engage them and bring the lightning down through his word. They will just judge you for being harsh or forceful and will turn away from what is being presented them or tell you what you want to hear to get you out of the way and onto the next.
     
  14. daffers234

    daffers234 New Member

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    Like the others have said, please be careful when talking to Witnesses. I know all too well how great it is to be right and win an argument. But, arguing and being rude - or trying to "shut them down" - will only be counterproductive.

    They are taught they must go door-to-door and proselytize in order to be good Witnesses. Shutting them down is tantamount to someone who is more knowledgeable than you running circles around your discussion when you are trying to kindly teach them the way to heaven. Please don't do it. Winning an argument will puff you up, but the Witnesses will still be headed for hell and may be pushed away. What's worth more to you - winning an argument, or guiding someone away from eternal separation from God? If winning an argument is more important ... I think, the goal is NOT to win arguments, enjoyable as that is. The goal is to lead them to the TRUTH - that Jesus is God in the flesh, that only He is the way to heaven, and that He desires them to be with Him forever.

    I could give umpteenth arguments for talking to Witnesses, but they will do no good without love, as Paul said in 1 Corinthians. They will do no good without the Holy Spirit's guidance. I was discipling a friend this past year who has Witness relatives. Sometimes I gave him things to ask, to help them think critically about their decisions, but I told him I could not give him the perfect argument; even if I knew everything to say, they might not want to talk about that. He told me they dodged "good" arguments and spouted pat answers, so that might not work anyway.

    I did have an experience where I stopped and talked to some Witnesses at a street display. I told them I was a Christian from the local convention in town (which I was). I spent a long time talking gently with them about Jesus and why He had to die. I made my point by asking first, to wit, "Jehovah is the only name by which we may be saved, right?" They said yes. Then I kept prodding: if Jehovah is the only name by which we may be saved, why did Jesus have to die? He didn't want to if He didn't have to, the Bible says. But Jehovah allowed Him to die anyway. Yet, according to Witness theology, there was no reason for Jesus to die, whatsoever. I could tell I got the gears turning, and they said the questions were good but they could not answer them without further study.

    At the end, though, they said we'd had a nice discussion and thanked me for being nice to them. Wow! That meant more to them than any argument I could give, I think.

    Best of luck to you when they come knocking. I hope you can lead them to Christ!
     
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  15. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    There are myriads of versions of what someone believes in Christianity whether Catholic. Eastern Orthodox, rattle snake handling fundie, Mormon SDA, or JW. I don't think anyone can argue they have a monopoly to God and are the keepers of truth. Everyone is on a path of learning the best way we know how. I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule another's understanding
     
  16. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    The way I got rid of them, for a while, many years ago, was when we were talking about something - I don't know what - and they said, "as St Paul said in Acts chapter 20 ...." and started to look it up to show me. When it was clear they couldn't find it, I said "actually it was St Peter in Acts chapter 10", and found it for them.

    I do feel they have changed their tactics over the years. While they may still come round, door to door, I have seen far more display stands of their literature in the high street, sometimes with apparently no one looking after them. I've no doubt someone would appear as soon as you showed an interest, but it seems a far softer approach than before.
    We used to have a number of JWs to our house; if I said I wasn't interested, some would argue. Nowadays they just seem to accept it.
     
  17. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    I should add that it wasn't my intention on this occasion to get rid of them; they just seemed to leave quite quickly after I corrected them.
    I had a friend who invited them into her house. I think she was wondering at one point if they would ever leave;. Then she talked about the cross. Job done; they couldn't get out quick enough.
     
  18. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    They might not have it in thier Bible weak argument , also Yahweh didn't say I AM this is just translation .
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Exactly. They are virtually "lying in wait" for the person who knows something of the Bible to serve up that "I AM" passage in reply. ;)
     
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  20. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/2013/08/john-858-translation-i-am-is-verbal.html?m=1

    This is what you are up against. I already made a thread about this somewhere.

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/jehovahs-witnesses-and-proper-greek-translations.8069626/

    If you really want to be in their faces about the gospel then this video will show you how it's done.



    And if you want to know their logic and reasoning behind their translation of the bible and their beliefs, this is a great debate that exposes how hard they deny the truth.

     
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