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How to obtain Sanctification!!!

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by itsalldone, Aug 14, 2002.

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  1. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    [SHADOW=darkblue]SANCTIFY[/SHADOW] : Greek> hagiazo
    1. (set apart for sacred use to make holy and pure); To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
    2. To make holy; purify.
    3. To give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow
    4. To give social or moral sanction to.
    5. To make productive/useful by holiness or spiritual blessing]

    (the following is GOD's prayer for each and all who can but believe)
    Sanctify them (purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy) by the Truth, Your Word is Truth. John.17:17 (TAB)
    God/the WORD made no difference between them and us. He/the living WORD made/created our hearts/minds pure when we believe. Acts 15: 9
    Acts:20:32
    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of satan unto God/the living WORD, that they may receive forgiveness/omission of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified/ set aside HOLY by faith that is in Me. Acts 26:18 ***By His FAITH not ours!
    ... for me to be minister of Christ Jesus to the nations, carrying on as a sacrificial service the message of glad tidings of God, in order that the offering up of the nations might/may be acceptable, sanctified/set aside holiness by the Holy Spirit. Rom.15:16
    Whom God/the WORD has set forth to be a propitiation/restoration through faith in His blood, to declare/publicly proclaim His righteousness/Holiness for the remission/omitting of sins that ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God, To declare/publicly proclaim, I say, at this time/NOW His righteousness/[w]Holiness. Rom. 3:25,26
    But NOW being made/created FREE FROM SIN, and become servants to God, we have your fruit unto [w]Holiness, and the end everlasting life. Rom. 6:22
    But of Him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God/the WORD is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness/purity, and sanctification/set aside [w]Holy, and redemption/ deliverance… But we have the mind of Christ. 1Cor.1:30; 2:16
    And such were some of you, but you are washed/cleansed, but you are sanctified/set aside [w]Holy, but you are justified/made innocent in the name/nature of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit/ of [w]Holiness of our God. 1Cor. 6:11
    I am crucified with Christ/the WORD, never-the-less I live, yet not I, but the WORD lives in me. For as many of you as HAVE BEEN baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal. 2: 20; 3:27
    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ/ the WORD/ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect/mentally and morally complete be thus minded/thinking, and if in any thing you be otherwise minded/thinking, God/the WORD shall reveal even this unto you. Never-the-less, whereto we have ALREADY ATTAINED, let us walk by the same rule/standard, let us mind/thinking the same thing. Phil 2: 5; 3:15,16
    For you know what commandments/preciepts we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification/setting aside [w]Holy. And the very God of peace sanctify/set aside you wholly/completely ; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He/the WORD that called you, who also will do it. 1Thes. 4:2,3; 5:23,24
    But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God/the WORD has from the beginning chosen you to salvation/deliverance through sanctification/setting aside [w]Holiness of the Spirit and belief of the truth. 1Thes. 2:13
    By [His] will we are sanctified/ setting aside [w]Holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. For by one offering He/ the WORD has perfected for ever them that are sanctified/set aside holy. Wherefore Jesus also, that He might/may forcibly sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 10: 10, 14; 13:12
    Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified/ setting aside [w]Holy by God/the WORD the Father/Creator. Jude 1: 24 ............because........
    The [w]Holy shall live by faith/belief/trust.Rm. 1:17

    May the WORD's of GOD recreate you [w]HOLY, NOW.., Faitfilled is He that called you, He the WORD will do it...

    disclaimer: All verses have been expanded (not changed) for better understanding via the [w]HOLY Spirit of WORD of GOD for the deliverance from sin/falling short of the glory of GOD! This is NOT a debatable issue what so ever, just discussion only! AS W/O holiness NO one will see GOD Heb. 12:14
     
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  2. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    COME on "CHRISTIANS lets see the fruit of the Spirit ie HOLINESS? Where is the discussers of the MAIN topic of the GOOD NEWS, ie the HOLY SPIRIT?
    NO testimonies, no HOLY SPIRIT!
    NO HOLY SPIRIT >NO Christian!> NO being Christ-like than you need deliverance in order to be 'saved'!

    Don't you KNOW that the UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit/ posess the kingdom of GOD... Be NOT DECEIVED! 1Cor. 6:9

    [move]"Let EVERYONE who names the name of CHRIST turn away from sin." [/move]
    2Timothy 2:19(B)
     
  3. spirituality

    spirituality Well-Known Member

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    I think all who embrace the lord and even those who are of a different religion but still follow the commandments and live decent lives are saved.
     
  4. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Monkey Boy

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    One question.  How can one follow all the commandments yet not serve and worship the one and only God? 

    blackhawk
     
  5. spirituality

    spirituality Well-Known Member

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    When I wrote that I meant that they dont steal, kill, cvommit adultery, and that sort of thing.  Not really follow those rules as the ten commandments but more as morals and ethics.

    God Bless :pray:
     
  6. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

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    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;If Jesus is THE way, then how can they be saved if they do not follow Him? And I am not talking of being converted, but staying the same way.
     
  7. josiahdefender

    josiahdefender New Member

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    Sanctification is Gods holiness imparted to us by reason of Gods own presence in our lives. As we abide in the vine ( Christ) we partake of the nurishing and blessed empowering of Christ. Holiness is one of Gods communicable attributes. It is a wonderful and glorious thing to know that Christ makes us Holy because we place our hearts and lives into his hands. We need not strive for holiness or rack ourselves with guilt because we find sin seeking to enter back in to dominate. We simply trust that Christ who is our life, will bring life to every area of our hearts that is open and available for his infilling.
    Some things to watch for while seeking holiness.
    1. It comes by way of communication with God, meaning God IMPARTS his presence in such a way that we sense and are made aware of his direct
    influence upon us.
    2. It comes by way of prayer and repentance. Not the way of begging and pleading with God to make us holy, nor by reason of enduring shame or guilt from past sins. It is by A LIVING FAITH which seeks to enter deeper into Christ himself.
    3. It comes by way of obedience and accountability, not in mere words or agreements but by way of actually being open and teachable to others who are over us. Not the simple agreement that comes from hearing a good sermon, but from the agreement that comes when you are busted for doing wrong, or busted for doing right, and you take it as the word of God and obey it, and seek to find your strength right then from God, not men or self flatteries that you are "ok and dont need this stuff".
    4. It comes by way of realizing you are DEAD TO SIN that you cannot live a life of sin any longer, you not only DONT WANT TO SIN, you simply cannot sin, because it is just NOT YOU AS YOU KNOW YOURSELF TO BE. This is not a swallowing up of our personalities but a real EXCHANGE OF life between the way we used to think and live and they way we must live to just be ourselves.
    5. Place yourself in a position to HAVE TO TRUST GOD. and stay there.
    If you play it safe with your own soul you will never keep your zeal alive for long. Zeal and devotion to Christ invite holiness, since it is an open invitation to God to empower for service and obedience. If your christian walk is so comfortable that it has no effect as to make you a danger to Satans kingdom or a threat to mans thinking, then you will find little holiness in your life. When God enters a mans life, EVERYTHING CHANGES RADICALLY: men and devils know it and draw the sword after they recover themselves some.

    There is much more but these will suffice to those who want to know Christ, for who he is, and will find holiness not some elusive virtue, that is spoken of in christian history: you will find it a wonderful virtue that comes from the RESULT of knowing Christ deeply and obeying him implicitly.
    Josiah
     
  8. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    Praise GOD Forever Josiah :clap:

    A saint, who can minister the WORD and teach it also!
    I give your Creator ALL the credit, as you, more than likely, do also!
    Stick around and teach, as the SPIRIT of HOLINESS leads!

    [move][SHADOW=orange]Mt. 5:8, Blessed are the pure in heart/mind For they shall see God. :holy: [/SHADOW] [/move]
     
  9. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    Blessing in the mighty name/ nature of Jesus Christ!


    Since Sanctification ONLY comes by the FAITH that is in Christ by beliving the following verses were written by GOD himself (thru a man) and that HE SANCTIFIED you by His blood at His offering and NOT by any thing you have to do, pray, fasting, church attending etc, etc but BY FAITH, by believing His WORD as follows:

    By [His] will we are sanctified/ setting aside [w]Holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. For by one offering He/ the WORD has perfected for ever them that are sanctified/set aside holy. Wherefore Jesus also, that He might/may forcibly sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 10: 10, 14; 13:12

    So why not just CUT out the middle man/ woman (self) by needing to do something and receive Sanctification by faith in His WORD! Why not just believe trust and rely on GOD when He ALREADY DID IT FOR US! AND WALK YE IN IT!

    GOD doesn't need the creation to help Him create! Just to agree to the fininshed plan of His Creation!
     
  10. NewHope

    NewHope New Member

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    So, I take&nbsp;it you don't see "believing,&nbsp;trusting, relying, and walking in" the sanctification of the&nbsp;Lord something we do?&nbsp; 'Cause you say that&nbsp;we should cut out the middle man/woman and then you contradict that by saying you do have to do something, i.e., believe, trust, rely and walk in sactification.

    See, here you go again.&nbsp; If the plan of God is finished why would you think you could do something to add to it?&nbsp; Do you not think His plan included your sanctification?&nbsp; Either it's finished, or your actions finish it.

    God bless&nbsp;
     
  11. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    1. Never said I was doing any such thing and didn' see it in goute form!
    2.Yes it is HIS will even my sactification "By [His] will we are sanctified"the whole verse is stated above in 2 Thes. 2: 13 please re read. Belief is NOT an action but void of a action against the truth of the sanctificaion power in the blood pf Christ. :(
    3.Since 'they that belong to Christ HAVE CRECIFIED the flesh and the affections and lusts' Gal. 5: 24 or True Christians than those who HAVE NOT been sanctified are only false conversions.

    Just believe the WORD! :holy:
     
  12. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

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    Hey where did you all go? :wave:

    :help: How about not letting the Truth fade by ignoring it! Because it only fades to those who Ignore "MY people are destroyed because of the lack of knowledge! :cry:
     
  13. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

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    I am sanctified. Christ set me apart unto Him. (Him meaning God, God meaning the Almighty Creator)
     
  14. geocajun

    geocajun Priest of the holy smackrament

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    Job, can you give me your short definition for sancification and justification?
    Thanks
     
  15. brotherjim

    brotherjim Well-Known Member

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    Dear itsalldone,

    &nbsp;

    I don't know what you're all about, as your posts here are too limiting for me to know, and I have not read any other thread&nbsp;you may have been active on to my knowledge. So kindly forgive me if I'm perceived as something other than just unknowing where you are coming from.

    On theologyforums.com, under the Open Theol. topic "Why the Born-again Christian Must Observe the Sabbath," the thread digressed to the subject you are posting on. While someone might have to read on that other forum what led up to the following, I believe by my copying and pasting my closing "argument" to this subject of sanctification, somewhat might discern where I'm at on this (I don't recall the limits of this forum, so it may require more than one post to fit it all on):Beloved* Brother Xxxx,

    (*My Love and appreciation of you has seen a new Light, greater than I thought possible - but sorry to be so mushy.)

    It’s 6:30 in the morning here in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania. I’ve been up all night. From the time I last posted to you yesterday evening, until about 3 this morning, I’ve been wrestling within my mind with those spiritual forces existing in our world.

    In my last post, I placed great demand upon God. This was not in the sense where the Word of Faith’ers had once taught me that we have the authority to command angels. (I can recall the one and only time I tried that, the resultant feeling being equivalent to if I were to steal an elderly lady’s purse containing her Social Security check she would need to live off of that month.) But - and I’m going to skip the usual "alleges," "claims," etc. I usually include, for just when I thought it not possible, I’m more confident than even before I’m being counseled by God’s Spirit in this - what I stated yesterday was of the Spirit. It was Him expressing what a dire need existed for the conflicting doctrine expressed between us be uncovered and made known "now."

    At 3 AM He gave me the answer. By 3:30 it was complete, and when I then promised upon awakening I would sit down and pen this post, He objected. But it took Him 3 hours to convince me such sleep was not going to be made possible. So I now give in. As you may already suspect, I fear again, it will be a bit lengthy, so grab a cup of Joe or something and sit back, and join me on this journey.

    I don’t know where to begin, so I’ll take the age-old advice and start at the beginning.

    After I got over the initial "righteous anger" of you posting the scripture from John 6:44 telling of how Jesus testified it’s only by the Father’s drawing us whereby we can come onto Jesus, after mine saying we must first draw near to God and then He will draw near to us (amplified) - for it was like the woman following after the disciples like a mockingbird until she was rebuked, I then spent hours on and off attempting to fathom from God why you would use that scripture to imply what you did.

    I even went to the Bible to check and confirm such is about the unbeliever - for none seek after God - needing to be first drawn by God in order to consider Him. So why would you use that and apply it to the Christian walk, I pondered? After all, not only are we given what I stated as us needing to draw first to God as believers, but there are countless additional scriptures demanding the saint to fast, be diligent, be zealous for, pray fervently, beseech, earnestly seek, submit to, etc., etc.

    So then I began to reason with God. I suggested, since you had already drawn the scripture you had into this thread against mine, that perhaps if you and I would just continue this route, that for each and every scripture you would post I could then show the Wisdom and correct context. Soon you would run out, so I continued to argue, and be left with none which I had not discounted. I, on the other hand, I was so sure of, would have an entire arsenal remaining for which you could not refute. But God would not agree.

    I was then reminded of what I had first started on the thread "Why We Believe What We Do," and then also of the subsequent posts to it I was forced to write on the dozen or so forums upon which it was posted. In those I shared how all Christian doctrines are, if we would not let the heart idols formed from them stand in the way of agreeing, merely a compilation and implications of scripture.

    "Whoaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!," I can hear all saying. But think about it.

    Take, for example, the doctrine of being born-again. In John 3:3 we are told someone must be born-again. But it doesn’t exactly say what this entails. The evangelical church has therefor searched the scriptures and assembled all pertaining to the subject. Collectively they are believed upon to imply that such is an instantaneous and supernatural transformation wherein we receive a new heart and spirit, etc., etc. But the rest of the church had already long ago done exactly the same assembling of scripture, by highly educated and intelligent men, and yet arrived at a totally different conclusion: what we call liberal or mainline Christianity. For these, they have assembled a strong case, by what THEY believe the scriptures IMPLY, and yet it is nearly opposite that of the evangelical. Now of course we who are truly born-again don’t think it’s a strong case, but the liberals equally don’t think we have one.

    The same principle can be said and explained by the doctrines of both Arminians and Calvinist, both eternal and conditional security believers, both charismatics and cessationists, etc., etc. (But surely each group will disagree and deny any validity of the other.)

    Well, Brother Xxxx, the same can be said of John 6:44. I cannot PROVE to you or anyone that this verse is confined to God’s dealings with man before conversion. I can assume it is implied, based upon what I believe the Holy Ghost has revealed it as and upon the context wherein it’s found. And I can assemble a whole bunch more like scriptures and collectively build and present a strong case on my behalf, but so could you to the contrary.

    So, anyway, that knocked out my scripture debate suggestion.

    I won’t go into the many other ideas I had over the next few hours that I thought could bring this to a logical course and conclusion. But I did attempt to plead our case well.

    The last fleshly attempt for a solution I conjured in my mind is as follows:

    Then I began to almost plead with the Lord, asking if I could beg solicitation from you for your testimony. I believed for a while that if I could just compel you to share with all of us, those yet remaining sins in your heart and life that you were miraculously delivered from since you were born-again, that I could then compare them to the half dozen or so in my own life. Then I could reason if you were further sanctified as was I, and yet were able to be so made without the exertions I had to endure, surely we were on to something really, really big. And since I yet struggle with the couple I know of, and perhaps more that I don’t: oh how your words are so inviting and the rest you proclaim possible music to my ears.

    But just when I was getting excited over the many wondrous possibilities of the above:

    Then, almost strangely, I was reminded of my struggle with the Word of Faith movement (WoF). At first I thought my mind was just wandering, but eventually I came to realize it was the Lord and he was attempting to make a connection somehow.

    For the first decade of my two decade walk in the Lord, I was deeply involved with the WoF from almost right after getting saved. I had religiously watched Copeland on TV, read most all the books by him and Hagin and Kenyon, attended their conferences, and fed on tape teachings. For 10 years I ate and slept and breathed almost nothing but Faith. I give this testimony on other threads on this forum where WoF is and was discussed, so I’ll not go into great detail.

    Suffice it here to say, that everywhere I looked and read in the Bible, I would almost always see words either directly or most often indirectly referring to prosperity and health for the believer. As with many so involved, my Christian walk had become an unbalanced one. While Faith is a vital aspect of Christianity, I had gotten so concentrated on the topic that all others suffered. Sure, I must have read about such things as suffering and separation from the world and holiness in the Bible, but somehow these were read over with glazed eyes, myself wading through to get to the next mentioning of Faith and prosperity.

    Ten years of this, and after much suffering for both myself and those who loved me, I was no closer to a successful and victorious Christian life than when I first started. In fact I was farther away than ever. So in total failure I was led to set myself apart for several hours of intimate prayer each day. I don’t know how many weeks or months of this it took when the Lord finally came to me and revealed my error and granted repentance. In an instant I was miraculously delivered.

    In retrospect, I now see that just as what I related to above about the dichotomous ammunition of scriptures for opposing Christian doctrines being available when we form beliefs on the security of the believer or even salvation itself, so to is provided in the Word an array of references which can be assembled and construed to imply excessive prosperity as God’s will.

    Someone need merely consider the threads on these forums pertaining to WoF, to see how far reaching and deeply rooted and well affected the church has become from this movement. And the animosity expressed is understandable, for many lives have been shattered and even destroyed by the incorrect and unbalanced application of those scriptures regarding health and prosperity.

    CONTINUED ON NEXT POST
     
  16. brotherjim

    brotherjim Well-Known Member

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    CONTINUED FROM PRIOR POST

    Well, Brother Xxxx, I’m both astounded to discover and deeply sorrowed to say, there is now existing a movement in the body of Christ even more potentially destructive than the excesses of Faith. It is what I will call "extreme passivity." It takes some very foundational and truthful tenets of our Christian faith, and somehow has become unbalanced by ignoring other equally important facets, and, just as faith and prosperity is pasted over everything by the WoF, this new extremism has taken the finished work of the Cross and applied it to every area of the Christian life. And just as Faith TRULY IS an underlying necessity in all areas of Christianity, but when given a higher preeminence than other equally important aspects it leads to an imbalance and stagnation and eventual destruction, so too will extreme passivity through the finished work of the Cross lead to the exclusion of other equally vital virtues and it, too, result in devastation in the end.

    If someone eats nothing but candy day after day, year after year, will it not lead to an imbalance in the body and eventual malnourishment, and then consequential early death?

    But this new movement is so subtle and cunningly devised. It has incorporated into it some very profound truths of the Word. Besides the truth that all MUST be taken and nailed to the Cross, it has advertised as its emissary the often neglected reminder that "apart from Christ we can do nothing." True, many Christians, and even most, who were started in the Spirit when born-again, afterwards continue on in their walk erroneously attempting to be made perfect by works of the flesh. This is an all too needed truth for the church today. And this new movement of excess has arrived to fill the void. But as with the WoF: at what cost? A very great one, both now and eternally, I fear and now know.

    I must admit I’m very naive when it comes to what is going on overall in the church and world. I often concern over the fact I spend so much time alone with the Lord, being fed by Him only for great lengths of time, that I don’t get to see the many things arising in the church. This which you spoke of on this thread, Brother Ruht, took me by complete surprise. I genuinely, for a few days, was being open to God to show me if there was any truth here. You presented some great truths of God, and that threw me for a loop. I just could not fathom how someone with truths much obscured by many others, could also be adding a twist to them that I had never heard.

    But this morning sometime I was reminded of an incident 10 or 12 years ago, and just around the same time God finally got through to me about the Faith excesses. I was listening to the radio in my car - I can even remember the pharmacy parking lot where I was - and on a Christian station there was a half hour broadcast of some ministry. I don’t recall the specifics, but the man speaking, an encouraging and jubilant one at that, was talking about the finished work of the Cross. While I didn’t really understand at the time, just as I didn’t with your many compelling words, I recall a great excitement welling up from within. It sounded like the best thing since apple pie. In fact, until a couple hours ago, I just now realize where that guy was coming from, and how my reaction to him back then was exactly the same as all of us with itching ears first react when we hear Word of Faith preached.

    I’m even now ashamed of myself to admit, when you came on this thread and touted what you did, I was really wanting to believe such could be true. I would be lying to say I didn’t over the last ten years expend countless hundreds hours in prayer, many of those prayers in much beseeching and tears, fast weeks and weeks on only water, offer up many sacrifices and self-denials, experienced the many "deaths" the Lord caused me to suffer, and only God remembers what else. And since being so greatly blessed of the Lord, I have been about telling others of the magnificent rewards possible through further sanctification. (I’m truly sorry for I know how all of what I shared as to my expenditures must genuinely break your heart.)

    But, as you can guess, mine isn’t an appetizing menu. The food looks good, but the costs too steep (and I know you would say unnecessary). Few are interested in pain and suffering and denials, even when the end is of grand eternal significance - not to mention many earthly blessings as well. So when I considered your possibility that such could be had for fast food prices, well . . . I hope you at least will believe that I really, really wanted to grasp at your flavorful promises. Surely I could easily sell that to others.

    But I’m so very thankful these events between us unfolded as they did. My perceived "calling and election that I WORK [at] to make sure," is in part, that of protecting the Father’s precious sheep from the false and misleading who work, I believe mostly if not altogether unaware, to kill prematurely, steal from and destroy, what is willed for God’s children to the contrary by Heaven.

    I said before I now know this new movement of excessive passivism is potentially more destructive than even the WoF. I argued about this at first, for I reasoned there must be many times more people interested in health and prosperity than there are those seeking Jesus’ rest. But then I was made to consider the millions of Christians in this world who are in the Lord some 20 or 30 or perhaps 40 years or more. I pondered how many of them have never overcome the knawing bad habits and continuos fallings to the same sins over and over. I thought of how many have come to a point of overwhelming frustration in their lives, seldom if ever being used of God as they may have once longingly desired. I think now of how many have heard the possibility of a victorious Christian life, and see promises to that affect in the Word, but who find these things ever fleeting.

    Oh how there must be a very full ocean of fish to be caught, by this cunningly crafted doctrine of excessive passivism. Oh how I fear for the vulnerability by that which even nearly snared me by its plausible net. But I’m comforted in knowing I’m even now better equipped, more wise as a serpent, and less naive of our adversary’s devices. The Lord willing, now someday there will be less who will say:

    "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

    But for now, that which concerns me the most and what is heaviest on my heart, is you, Brother Xxxx. For I suspect that none of this has reached into you yet as truth. I well recall how for ten years many attempted to warn me against the deceptiveness of riches and the WoF, but I was without hearing. That is the power of such scripturally based snares. And yet one more reason this which you speak of is even more dangerous than even the WoF has been, is how it has incorporated into it it’s making void the only avenue of escape, save the sovereign will of God. For I know from my own experience that if a WoFer sets themselves apart from the world in sincere and dedicated to the Truth prayer, escape can be had. But as irony would have it, your doctrine has eliminated this as a possibility. Such would be directly opposed to the resting upon the Cross made pervasive throughout and to all situations by the teachings of this extreme passivity movement. How very, very cunning of our enemy!

    But God still is on the throne. God still exists sovereign. God still has the church, and the gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

    Brother Xxxx, I know your reaction to what I will now request of all believers in Christ Jesus who see this, will be one of adamant insistence against. I’m certain you will kick and scream about it. I know how much it will offend all you are believing in and therefor even be seen a request by me for the church to sin. But I believe it is the ONLY way you will ever be freed from what you don’t even know is needed.

    I therefor beseech every saint, regardless of how this man Ruht may have even offended any of you in the past, regardless of how he will react to this plea and insist you not get involved and would even be sinning by doing so, to pray and intercede for this who I fully believe is a true brother in the Lord - but even if you suspect otherwise, he is still one created in the image of God, and who is unconditionally Loved by God, and who is commanded to us to be Loved. And don’t do this as those who insincerely and condescendingly say, "I’ll pray for you, man," when what they really mean is, "Boy have you got a problem!" All of you cannot fathom as do I, if you were not also set free from one of these movements or a cult, what a strong grip and how effective the blinders are placed upon such taken captive by our enemy. They cannot possibly see or hear apart from the supernatural, and I believe in this new movement the sovereign intervention and, deliverance of our Lord. Please, I beg of all, please help this man be set free. Please join with me in an agreement of prayer. I beseech you on behalf of God.

    And in closing, Brother Xxxx, I know that I know you cannot accept ANY of this as truth, and cannot possibly fathom such is from the Holy Ghost. I know, as with past posts, you MUST dissect it and quote it and trample it to shreds. That’s okay, because I also know that I know you are fully persuaded what you believe and have espoused on this thread is both true and told you by God. So do what your conscience must dictate and defend, and I will not be offended or Love you any less. Amen.
     
  17. Jesus Ranger

    Jesus Ranger New Member

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    I come from a Wesleyan background, and unfortunately sometimes in our quest for Sanctification, we turn it into a "Works" doctrine. In the Wesleyan doctrine, sanctification is a second work of Grace. I tend to agree with NewHope. God has already planned our sanctification when we accept Christ. We do not need to jump through a man's hoop for approval. I have since joined a Southern Baptist Church recently. They cut right to the chase. Things aren't nearly as works oriented in this church. Not that they are not Holy. They preach Christ crucified. Basically I suppose I would say that the Wesleyan's sanctification is the Southern Baptist's perseverance. Peace and God Bless. J.R.1
     
  18. brotherjim

    brotherjim Well-Known Member

    997
    +35
    Christian
    &nbsp;

    Wow! - a RANGER!&nbsp; :)

    Seriously though, thank you for being obedient to post what you did and share your testimony. Excellent and vital point!

    I, too, have a similar experience. While I'm an Anabaptist at heart, because at some time I believe the Lord specifically and divinely revealed to me the doctrines of Anabaptism to be Truth, I am in heart at odds with my Anabaptist brethren.

    If we were to examine the churches of Quakers, Mennonites, Hutterites, Amish, Brethren Churches, etc., we would find they have degregated into ritualistic and feigned manifestations of the flesh.

    But the Anabaptist movement was birthed during the Reformation, and was the result of genuine experiences similar to my alleged revelations. But like every movement, denomination and faction, subsequent generations of adherents will, for the most part, come to follow in the steps of their parents and grandpparents out of tradition and not a personal realization of any Truth (not to say there are not exceptions by acts of sovereign Grace - like me).

    While I'm not too familiar with exactly what Wesley taught in regards to sanctification, there is a website enterhisrest.org/com?? that touts any subsequent-to-salvation act of further sanctification occurs in one fell swoop. They also post a lot of Wesley's teachings, so I'm at least suspect that he MAY have embraced such an idea.

    So I would disagree then, if the above of others is accurately understood by me, for while I DO attest to the fact there are instantaneous and miraculous experiences of further sanctification after someone is born-again, I do not believe such happens all at once but in stages - several such supernatural manifestations being needed to pursue and obtain in union with the Holy Ghost drawing us to same.

    So I'm saddened by your negative experience, but also encourage you to consider Wesleyan-type experiences on your own and regardless of what is taught by the church you attend. There is no one perfect church that has it all together. We must be diligent to incorporate into our lives and Christian walk, the best of them all - for all likely have something of Truth to offer.

    Thanks again, JR: very edifying post.

    Many blessings, bro. jim

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  19. Liquid-Reality

    Liquid-Reality New Member

    8
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  20. itsalldone

    itsalldone Cleansed by His blood

    113
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    Non-Denom
    Private
    :bow: to Christ :clap:

    Blessing to you all in the Perfect nature of Christ, (2Pet. 1: 4)

    I don't usually talk about myself, at all because “when Christ is lifted up, He can and does raise others up with Him…. Or ….When we lift up, the living WORD, to the Stature of being the TRUTH of ALL the Creation of GOD, that is pure and godly, than… “others” can be lifted up, by His wisdom and revelation, controlling and Creating His will in them, by thinking and speaking His WORD.

    Since the WORD of GOD truly stated in Hebrews 10: 10 & 14, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14, For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    I believe these two verses are (without limiting other verses of ) the WORD, when “truly believed[” are a counterpoint of the truth in sanctification. The WORD of the living Creator can deposit the FULLNESS of His nature into a “believer” thru these verses, showing that holiness and purity and godly lives were restored 2000 years ago, by the only R-E-A-L Sanctifier, thru “His blood” for the restoration

    Example…" we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. “Are sanctified” being the “finished work” and ALL that is needed to be done, was done, by “offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” This divine revelation of the purifying of the “body of Christ” by GOD in Christ, Himself,” without the “help of mankind.” Thus bringing forth the atonement, of restoration, “once for all.” Showing that GOD provided the TRUTH that He is the Only Creator and “nothing can be made without the WORD, that is made.”

    Than adding more Truth via revelation, “For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” He, the WORD, “has perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” Making the WORD again the Perfector of them that He sanctified “by one offering.” The Creator of all, purified, set aside and consecrated His “body of believers,” and did this by Himself, thru His “blood” on the tree, 2000 (+ or -) years ago. And He put this “blood purification” in writing for all to see “who have eyes to see, revealing His purpose and will of sanctification for “His people.”


    Without being “turned into a formula” I would love to add a WAY, for the promise of the WORD that WAS to “keep us from falling” (Jude 1: 24) And this is the truth embodied in the WORD at Rom. 3: 25-26a, [Christ] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God… To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness,” Yes, the Creator, the WORD has set forth to be a “restoration” thru faith in His blood, enough of HIS faith to “declare His righteousness” for the “omission” of sin (because of His sanctification and purification) of sin that is NOW past by the forbearance or the Self-control of the WORD…. To declare, publicly proclaim, at this time, His righteousness, holiness and purity.’ “At this time” and not putting off the TRUTH until “anything else,” is needed from the first drop, proclaiming “nothing but the blood of Christ “HAS CLEANSED us FROM all SIN.”

    The Creator providing the Sanctification / Purification and the means of cementing the “finished atonement” by publicly proclaiming, “Now, at this time” His holiness, purity for the omission of sin, totally and thoroughly, completely and totally by speaking the TRUTH that “sets the captives FREE and whom the WORD sets free is FREE indeed.” And this freedom (free from doom) was “DONE” on earth as it is in heaven, 2000 years ago by the “blood” most precious substance that touched the atmosphere of the earth and the minds and hearts of all who, can “but believe” that “all things are possible” with the WORD!

    Last but not the least for the “washed and sanctified and justified” believers, is the finalizing by the WORD for the “perseverance of the saints” in Titus 2: 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world Yes the WORD is NOW teaching us (for true “conversion”) to deny, or renounce and reject ungodliness and worldly lusts, in order for the WORD to, Create in us His righteousness (holiness) and His godliness, “in this present world.”

    What a glorious and very simple plan, of the WORD for “restoring all things unto Himself” by proclamation of His Created WORD, which “are life and Spirit and the Truth of the “good news” made simple thru the least of all “the saints.” :holy:

    Blessings via the WORD to all who “can but believe.”
     
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