How to move from a logical faith to a spiritual faith?

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ToBeBlessed

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What I mean when I say I believe logically but not spiritually is that I understand all of the logical arguments for the existence of God and Jesus. The accuracy of the Bible, the archeological arguments for Christ, the extreme unlikeliness that the world could have been created by chance, the existence of universal moral values that had to emerge from somewhere, the evidence for the resurrection, etc. However, still when I pray I find myself questioning how I can believe in something that is extra-ordinary, that is of the spiritual realm. How do I believe in something that is miraculous when I see nothing miraculous today?

You are way ahead of many people. Know that.

What I would like to ask is 'how can you believe in a God that created not just earth, but the sun, every sun (stars) and every universe, all of creation and not think that that is extra-ordinary?

If you think about creating something out of nothing. Then creating a solar system that is so vast that it takes 1000's of years when traveling at the speed of light for sound waves to reach other galaxies, it is beyond me (don't take that wrong, I'm speaking for myself) how you cannot see God as extra-ordinary.

We know that with our DNA, each person is unique. There are no two people alike in their DNA. That is extra-ordinary.

That two people, from microscopic sperm and what is released from a woman's ovaries can in 9 months produce a baby is extra-ordinary.

For each person to have their own experiences, their own personalities and to be able to have the free will to make hundreds of choices each day is extra-ordinary.

That tree's and plants seem dead in the winter, but sprout again each spring and blossom is extra-ordinary.

That the earth can sustain itself with water, heat, the atmosphere while revolving around a huge sun of gases and heat is extra-ordinary.

Just think about it.

I think you are very close to where you want to be. Everything about us and life is extra-ordinary.
 
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Neogaia777

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Logic disproves God. I don't believe that you can have have a logical faith.

Oh, really... Well, you tell me which is more likely: One: Jesus never existed despite the overwhelming (logical) evidence that he did. Or the apostles and the ancient prophets who performed signs and wonders and miracles, and those who witnessed and wrote about such things were lying or part of some sort of conspiracy (not very likely and is against the odds (numbers) and is therefore, not logical at all) The chances that they were lying or it was some sort of conspiracy is highly unlikely and therefore illogical to believe or conclude...

So, since that (the odds that they were lying and that they are, all of them, part of some sort of conspiracy) is illogical to believe, because it is highly unlikely, then one must logically conclude it's opposite (logically), and that is: they WERE NOT lying or part of a conspiracy, and so it is only logical to conclude that they were, all of them, telling the truth, and then, it is only logical to conclude that the miracles were real, and are evidence of the the supernatural, spiritual, or another realm or dimension where God and spirits operate from...

Perfectly logical to me,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Jesus is just a fictional character.

No, he's not actually, but I'm not going to waste time arguing with you...

But, if your willing to challenge your belief on that, I suggest you explore this forum thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7825430/

What are you doing on this forum anyways, this forum is supposed to be for believers only...

God Bless!
 
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ToBeBlessed

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What are you doing on this forum anyways, this forum is supposed to be for believers only...

God Bless!

She cannot come into this safe house forum and say any of that, especially that Jesus was a fictional character. Even her icon says 'Religion-Other' so that could mean anything.

I hope that she reads the SOP so she knows next time. Ooops (I hope).
 
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dysert

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Hi, Barrowhamster

First let me say that I'm about where you are (not quite, but close). I too am a very logical person (I'm a computer programmer). And I'm not at all an emotional person. So I can relate very well to what you're going through.

Second, let me give you some excellent advice which was given to me years ago when I posed this issue to a *very* qualified and experienced Christian counselor. He told me that we are to have faith in Christ and not depend on our feelings. Otherwise, we'd be having faith in our feelings instead, which won't do a thing for us. I've clung to that truth so much for the past decade that I suggest you commit it to memory.

I suppose a question for all of you is this - why do you think you are spirituality on fire for God? What has caused that to happen? That's what I want to find so I can be on fire for God too. :) I really appreciate all of your thoughts!!
I am not on fire and never have been. I'm cool, calm, and collected. I do things because I want to or because they're the right things to do -- not because I "feel" God tugging at me. I think God can work through the mind as well as the heart. After all, we're told to love Him "with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." I'd like to be on fire, but I've accepted the fact that it's just not my personality. God uses me as I am, and I don't get hung up on trying to be someone other than who He created me to be.

What I mean when I say I believe logically but not spiritually is that I understand all of the logical arguments for the existence of God and Jesus. The accuracy of the Bible, the archeological arguments for Christ, the extreme unlikeliness that the world could have been created by chance, the existence of universal moral values that had to emerge from somewhere, the evidence for the resurrection, etc. However, still when I pray I find myself questioning how I can believe in something that is extra-ordinary, that is of the spiritual realm. How do I believe in something that is miraculous when I see nothing miraculous today? The question really is - how do you go from having a logical understanding that all the facts add up to the existence of God and transition to really believing in the aspects of Christianity that require faith? I have definitely prayed for many months but still feel like I am a ship lost at sea... I want to believe but just can't get myself to.
Personally, and I suspect others may disagree, I don't know if one can be 100% convinced of the reality of God. Yes, His existence is highly probable, and I believe I have "felt" his presence some over the years, but that's subjective. In the Western world we've put such an emphasis on providing 100% proof of things that we're just not comfortable with believing something that's less than 100%.

Several years ago I came to a crossroads. Although I had been a Christian for decades, I didn't "feel" God. I doubted Him. It was driving me nuts. I struggled for over a year, reading the Bible, associating with other believers, going to church, reading Christian books, etc. Nothing seemed to make a dent. Eventually I realized that I was simply going to have to *choose to believe* one thing or the other. I *chose* to believe God, and I live my life given that world view. I know the apologetics as well as the next guy, but when it comes right down to it, I believe God because I've chosen to -- regardless of the absence of 100% physical proof.

Please remember this if you start to go nuts trying to live on the fence. Make a choice, and live with it. It worked for me, and I suspect it will for you, too.
 
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acceptjesus

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I haven't really read much of A.W. Tozer myself but I heard he in his day was really big on the holy spirit and people didn't really agree with him as he tended toward (I THINK I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE) what could be called "experiential" Christianity so with that maybe reading some books from him would benefit you? Like I said I haven't read much of him myself I have one kindle book from him titled "The best of A.W. Tozer part 1. So maybe reading him would help? Praying for You!
 
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barrowhamster

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Dysert - Your response is quite intriguing and helpful. I, like you, am a very logical person. I hold a phd, and my training has caused me to question everything and never be satisfied unless I get all of the answers and can prove something 100%. It's so tough to take all that training but then not be able to 100% prove things in the spiritual realm. All of the logic adds up to God and Jesus existing, but it does not prove it. I know that is where the leap of faith comes in.

That is why I really appreciated your post. Maybe it is more the peace I am seeking with not being completely certain with God's existence. That is definitely something to think about. Do you happen to know of any sermons or other resources that communicate a similar message? It would be neat to be able to listen to a sermon online to helps to further communicate this message. Thanks for your help and interesting thoughts. I really appreciate it!
 
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Neogaia777

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I am not on fire and never have been. I'm cool, calm, and collected. I do things because I want to or because they're the right things to do -- not because I "feel" God tugging at me. I think God can work through the mind as well as the heart. After all, we're told to love Him "with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." I'd like to be on fire, but I've accepted the fact that it's just not my personality. God uses me as I am, and I don't get hung up on trying to be someone other than who He created me to be.
(Revelation 3:15-16) "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot, I wish you were cold or else hot." 16- " So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth"

I think the lukewarm are the fence-sitters, (the ones who haven't made their mind up about God, nor have they decided whether their going to let their mind or their heart rule) and the church talks a lot about how we should be "on fire" for God, but these are the "hot" ones, who usually are primarily guided by their (God speaks to them in their) heart, and emotions and "feelings"...

But, God accepts those who run hot or else cold, I think there should be room for those of us who run cold also (in the church), who are primarily led (God speaks to them through) by their mind, and depend on logic and reasoning ability with the mind, and prefer evidence over a "feeling" and are generally less emotional than those who run hot...

There should be room for both...

God Bless!
 
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BrokenWarrior

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(Revelation 3:15-16) "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot, I wish you were cold or else hot." 16- " So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth"

I think the lukewarm are the fence-sitters, and the church talks a lot about how we should be "on fire" for God, but these are the "hot" ones, who usually are primarily guided by their (God speaks to them in their) heart, and emotions and "feelings"...

But, God accepts those who run hot or else cold, I think there should be room for those of us who run cold also (in the church), who are primarily led (God speaks to them through) by their mind, and depend on logic and reasoning ability with the mind, and prefer evidence over a "feeling" and are generally less emotional than those who run hot...

There should be room for both...

God Bless!

Interesting take on that passage friend. I personally always thought God meant more like:"I can't stand people who 'kinda' believe, but don't really bother making a decision. I wish they were either saved or not, that way, if they're saved, great. If not, atleast they might have a chance to become saved instead of just sitting there not making their mind up."

To OP:

There is nothing wrong, in my opinion, to be logical about certain things. In my experience, every time I've questioned something and get an answer, it has only ever increased my spiritual Faith.

I think we have both a logical side and Spiritual side. And it's ok to use them both, as long as in the end your spiritual side is what guides you (the Holy Spirit).

If you want to be more spiritually connected with Christ I suggest you ask Him yourself:)


"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."-Matthew 7:7-8

Why am I Spiritually on fire for God?

I suppose it's because He loves me.
I love Him, because He first loved me:D

God Bless Brother!
-The Current Lowest Servant
 
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