How to move from a logical faith to a spiritual faith?

[barrowhamster]

How do you transition from having a logical faith to having a spiritual faith as well?

I am a very logical person, and I have read many apologetics resources. Based on such, I committed my life to Christ a few years ago. Though I feel like I have always had my faith because it is the logically reasonable thing to do. I feel like my spiritual closeness to God is just not there. Not that there is anything impeding my relationship with God - just that I logically understand the reasoning but spirituality don't believe. What suggestions do you have to get over this? I sincerely desire to be close to and firmly know God's presence, but I don't feel it at all. Thanks!

 

[graceandpeace]

If you believe in your mind, then you believe. Many people do not "feel" spiritual, & that's okay.

 

[St_Worm2]

How do you transition from having a logical faith to having a spiritual faith as well?

I am a very logical person, and I have read many apologetics resources. Based on such, I committed my life to Christ a few years ago. Though I feel like I have always had my faith because it is the logically reasonable thing to do. I feel like my spiritual closeness to God is just not there. Not that there is anything impeding my relationship with God - just that I logically understand the reasoning but spirituality don't believe. What suggestions do you have to get over this? I sincerely desire to be close to and firmly know God's presence, but I don't feel it at all. Thanks!

Hi Barrowhamster, when you say your spiritual closeness to God is just not there, that you don't feel your faith, and that you don't believe spiritually, has it always been this way, or is this something new .. I ask because we all go through desert periods in our walks.

Also, when you first became a Christian, what happened? Were there any big changes in your life, or did everything remain about the same as it was before?

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

 

[bling]

How do you transition from having a logical faith to having a spiritual faith as well?

I am a very logical person, and I have read many apologetics resources. Based on such, I committed my life to Christ a few years ago. Though I feel like I have always had my faith because it is the logically reasonable thing to do. I feel like my spiritual closeness to God is just not there. Not that there is anything impeding my relationship with God - just that I logically understand the reasoning but spirituality don't believe. What suggestions do you have to get over this? I sincerely desire to be close to and firmly know God's presence, but I don't feel it at all. Thanks!

First off: Having “knowledge” that God must exist is not the same as believing God exists.

After you have submitted (humbly trusted in God’s help), God will help you and will provide you with an extremely wonderful knowledge of Him. That knowledge of Him includes the indwelling Holy Spirit.

“Knowledge” for the nonbeliever can actually work against him developing a strong “spiritual faith”, since it tends to make him, even more self-reliant (your learning/knowledge) and not a trust in God.

If you really work at it, you can show it takes a great deal more faith to “believe” God does not exist than it takes to “believe” God does exist, so a person will “believe” God must exist, but that is not a “trusting” type faith.

What do you want God to change in your life or are you happy with your life now?

What have you done to show your ‘trust” in God and how has it changed your life?

Your “faith” is not to be “knowledge”, but the same faith the lowliest person on earth extends toward a benevolent Creator, so it is a very humbling experience (something the lowliest person on earth can do).

That “humility” is what you need to accept God’s pure charity in the form of forgiveness. You do not need to experience humility to “logically” derive the existence of God, so are you still look for that saving faith and if so why?

 

[Soul2Soul]

How do you transition from having a logical faith to having a spiritual faith as well?

I am a very logical person, and I have read many apologetics resources. Based on such, I committed my life to Christ a few years ago. Though I feel like I have always had my faith because it is the logically reasonable thing to do. I feel like my spiritual closeness to God is just not there. Not that there is anything impeding my relationship with God - just that I logically understand the reasoning but spirituality don't believe. What suggestions do you have to get over this? I sincerely desire to be close to and firmly know God's presence, but I don't feel it at all. Thanks!

In my understanding and experience I would say that it was/is the Word of God that "provides" such a transition. By that I do mean the Bible ...... I am not so sure that only logic and/or reason are necessary in determining one's faith and/or one's spiritual relationship with God. I think that if you have "determined" that the Bible is indeed The Word of God - and that it does contain God's spiritual message by way of spiritual truths .... then you should be able to derive from scripture(s) how to receive the gift of The Holy Spirit. Of course you would need to apply reason and/or logic to achieve this but I do personally believe that ones's heart is what God is looking at ..... i.e. desires, motives, etc. That IMO then provides a spiritual revelation of the scriptures by God .... which I believe has more to do with the (thoughts and attitudes of the) heart than the brain.


I hope this makes some sense ...... I have concentration issues .... but please ask if you have any questions about what I've shared.

 

[barrowhamster]

Thanks so much, all for your thoughts! I really appreciate it because I earnestly desire to be closer to God.

David (St_Worm2) - My spirituality has definitely decreased over time. I committed my life to christ a little over 2 years ago and felt highly spiritual at the time. It has slowly waned since then. I think what has happened is that I committed my life to christ really based on the spiritual connection I was feeling. Then slowly after then, I had a variety of doubts and questions in my mind, and I have ever since then been seeking answers to those. I have found answers to most all of my questions, but I have lost (or seriously diminished) the spiritual faith. I know by logic that God exists, but I don't feel like I have a personal connection with God anymore. I want that back. I hear of many others talking about personal experiences with Christ that really firm their relationship, but I have never experienced such.

(bling) - I definitely agree with you that having faith in a God seemingly takes less faith than believing that a God does not exist. Logically, I know this. Spirituality, I wrestle with this. I want to be able to answer someone's question - "does god exist" with absolute certainty that He does. However, I feel like that certainty doesn't exist for me right now, and I am not sure why. As far as how I trust in God, that's a hard one to answer. I come to God in prayer every day - I ask him to draw me close to him, to help give me certainty that He exists, to build my faith in Him. I feel like I am just praying to nothing sometimes though. Even though I would think these are all things that God really wants me to be praying for? Why is this?

(Soul2Soul) - Could you provide more specifics on how you achieve spirituality through the scripture? I have read the Bible from cover to cover (granted, there was a lot of it I didn't understand). I have participated in Bible studies and the like. I know that scripture says that we must have faith and trust in God, but how do you do this? What are some specific things I can do to help study scripture and lead that to me growing spiritually closer to God? Are there specific books, passages, etc. that you think would be particularly beneficial for me to read closer?

I suppose a question for all of you is this - why do you think you are spirituality on fire for God? What has caused that to happen? That's what I want to find so I can be on fire for God too. I really appreciate all of your thoughts!!

 

[Sketcher]

A spiritual faith doesn't necessitate abandoning logic. It just means being open-minded to what falls outside of your preconceived box, so to speak.

 

[Soul2Soul]

[QUOTE

(Soul2Soul) - Could you provide more specifics on how you achieve spirituality through the scripture? I have read the Bible from cover to cover (granted, there was a lot of it I didn't understand). I have participated in Bible studies and the like. I know that scripture says that we must have faith and trust in God, but how do you do this? What are some specific things I can do to help study scripture and lead that to me growing spiritually closer to God? Are there specific books, passages, etc. that you think would be particularly beneficial for me to read closer?

I suppose a question for all of you is this - why do you think you are spirituality on fire for God? What has caused that to happen? That's what I want to find so I can be on fire for God too. I really appreciate all of your thoughts!![/QUOTE]


May I recommend "The Spirit" by Douglas Jacoby .... he has written a number of books and I believe there are some videos online at Vimeo of him addressing this very subject (The Spirit). I think he does a far better job than I could ever hope to do in explaining such things .... he has been doing so for over 30 years I believe and IMO well worth considering.

 

[bling]

Thanks so much, all for your thoughts! I really appreciate it because I earnestly desire to be closer to God.



(bling) - I definitely agree with you that having faith in a God seemingly takes less faith than believing that a God does not exist. Logically, I know this. Spirituality, I wrestle with this. I want to be able to answer someone's question - "does god exist" with absolute certainty that He does. However, I feel like that certainty doesn't exist for me right now, and I am not sure why. As far as how I trust in God, that's a hard one to answer. I come to God in prayer every day - I ask him to draw me close to him, to help give me certainty that He exists, to build my faith in Him. I feel like I am just praying to nothing sometimes though. Even though I would think these are all things that God really wants me to be praying for? Why is this?

Unfortunately, giving a skeptic the best answer possible to “does god exist” will not make that skeptic a “believer”. You can know for certainty God exists since you know the indwelling Holy Spirit is in you, but that Spirit is only given as a guarantee for you, so the Spirit that dwells within you cannot be someone else’s “guarantee” about God, They have to accept that gift from God for themselves.

Instead of trying to “sell” someone on this unseen “god”, show them God Himself. God is Love, so if this “someone” can see God (Love) in you, serving others, caring for others, helping others, listening to others, teaching others and really unselfishly Loving others they might be “sold” on that Love, wanting that Love to be directed at them and hopefully wanting to Love like that themselves. The question then becomes: “How can you Love like that and how can I Love like that?”

I know God has placed before you tons of opportunities to help others, which is your answer to your prayer: “Draw me closer to You”. God is Love, so when you give love to others; you can see and experience that Love (God Himself). We are not praying to some “ruler” far away sitting on some thrown, but to our helper at our elbow, ready and willing to help others through you.

I am concerned about your “conversion” experience since you seem so doubtful. This might be improved through God’s suggested method.

I suppose a question for all of you is this - why do you think you are spirituality on fire for God? What has caused that to happen? That's what I want to find so I can be on fire for God too. I really appreciate all of your thoughts!!

I thought I was a strong committed Christian, until I met some really strong committed Christians, so I might suggest getting physically around strong committed Christians in the work of helping others. Faith and Love go hand in hand and both grow with use. Just take the little faith and hopeful big Love you have and start using them. You catch fire being around people on fire.

 

[barrowhamster]

Thanks to both of you for helping me through this matter. Soul2Soul - I will see what videos I can find by the author you recommended and also look into that book. Bling - I appreciate your thoughts about sharing God's love with others. I definitely feel like many opportunities have opened themselves for me to do that. I also agree that finding a more mature believer is something very important for me to do. I moved to a new town recently, so I haven't found anyone that I feel I can go to yet... I pray to God that He can help that to happen though.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I'd recommend a few things, first is to understand what is important to God.

Jesus told us that the following two commandments fulfill all of the Law (10 commandments given to Moses). The most important thing to God/Jesus is


1. "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind". So remember that in the back of your mind. People talk about their spiritual relationship with God because that is one of the things that Christ died for us to have. With Jesus as our Savior, we are reconciled back to the Father through His Son. Sin was what separated us from God, He is holy, we are sinners. But Jesus, the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world being our Savior has paid our sin debt in full!!!! We are now reconciled back to God. When we become children of God we are given the Holy Spirit.

2. "love your neighbor as yourself". God wants us to love each other. Sometimes you may be like 'what' or 'I don't want to' but God tells us to do all things for His glory. You glorify Him in your actions, so give Him glory through what you do.

So those two things are mucho importano to the Lord.

3. Read Romans chapters 5-8 Many people never know who they are positionally in Jesus Christ. Romans explains it well, but there is a lot of info packed into those three chapters. Read it multiple times and reflect on it. It will give you much confidence and begin your spiritual walk on a great note to know who you are in Christ.

4. Know that the bible does NOT read as a novel. In some of the epistles you will go back to another book, don't expect not to cross reference. There are great resources for you that will help you along. Read

4 gospels
Acts
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians ect... to Revelation, but stop and don't read Revelation right now. A very advanced book.

Once you have read most of the New Testament than go back to the Old Testament.

5. One of the most important things to God is that you and Him walk your Christian walk TOGETHER. Do NOT try to do it by yourself. That is what you will find in the bible. God wants you to give your problems to Him, Him carrying your problems, they are light to Him, but heavy for you. Learn to rest in the quiet and peace of the Lord. When we are weary there is always 'rest' to be found in our Lord. Know that Jesus will NEVER leave you or forsake you. He will always forgive you when you ask. And there is no power on heaven or on earth that can remove you from Jesus right hand.

6. Pray. Don't worry about your prayer sounding good or like anyone else's, just talk to Jesus. Tell Him what you need help with. Dear Lord, I have been wondering what the spiritual side of knowing you is all about. I'm not sure how to find it, but please lead me towards it. I want to have a full, personal relationship with you. I know that the Holy Spirit lives inside of me and will pray for me also. I ask the Holy Spirit's guidance. Help me to develop an open heart, open to You, Your Word and to love. I ask this in Jesus name. Amen.

http://www.christianforums.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[barrowhamster]

Thanks, tobeblessed! You provide many great tips. I will put Romans 5-8 particularly at the top of my reading list. I like your thoughts about our walk in Christ being something that we do together. Sometimes I just feel like God is not there beside me, but perhaps I am not good enough at discerning it? You wrote a very lovely prayer, and I feel that is something I keep coming back to. Are there ways to make prayer more meaningful? I feel a lot of times like I am just talking to myself - that I don't feel the holy spirit there listening to me. Is there something I can do to improve my prayer life?

 

[Soul2Soul]

Thanks to both of you for helping me through this matter. Soul2Soul - I will see what videos I can find by the author you recommended and also look into that book. Bling - I appreciate your thoughts about sharing God's love with others. I definitely feel like many opportunities have opened themselves for me to do that. I also agree that finding a more mature believer is something very important for me to do. I moved to a new town recently, so I haven't found anyone that I feel I can go to yet... I pray to God that He can help that to happen though.

You're welcome. I was listening to a couple of his videos on Vimeo last night .... though I had to type his name in the search box to find his videos on The Spirit. Please do share your thoughts .... you can PM me if you prefer ..... as I'd love to hear how you're getting on.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

Moved from Exploring Christianity to Non-denominational.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Job8]

How do you transition from having a logical faith to having a spiritual faith as well?

We are to walk by faith not by sight. If you know that the Holy Spirit lives within you, then BY FAITH you must reckon that God can and will work in you and through you when you commit yourself to His service.

The first things to do is take your focus off yourself and begin sharing Christ and the Gospel with others so that they can come to salvation. Reach out to those who have various needs. Exercise your spiritual gift or gifts. Pray "in the Spirit", which again means praying more for God's Kingdom and for others than for yourself. Make an effort to be "salt" and "light".

Study the Word diligently. Reading and studying are not the same. Share the Word. Put together a plan to serve God in your church and outside your church. IOW follow Christ's pattern as He went about preaching the Gospel, healing the sick, and doing good to others. The primary thing is to lean on God Himself, not on others, and not on yourself.

 

[Norah63]

Job nailed it , imo.
Getting the focus off of self and on to others.
it's key into the service of the kingdom.
Less of me and more of Thee as John stated.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Job nailed it , imo.
Getting the focus off of self and on to others.
it's key into the service of the kingdom.
Less of me and more of Thee as John stated.

This is actually very helpful for growing spiritually. When we do random acts of kindness and show love (agape, love that get's us nothing in return) we are growing so much spiritually.

Jesus said that love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you believe in your mind, then you believe. Many people do not "feel" spiritual, & that's okay.

I agree with her, I am a very logical person myself, and believe fully with my logical mind... And while I have "felt" the presence of the/a Spirit, feelings can betray you, those who depend on "feeling" the presence of the Spirit, oftentimes can become "drunk" or "High" in the Spirit, and when those feelings are not present, they become down and depressed, because they depend upon the "High" the "feeling" but may not have a logical basis for there Faith, which stays level, but those who depend upon and are addicted to the "feeling/high" they get in the spirit, go through a down period and a period of testing their faith when they can't "feel" it, while those who believe with there mind and logic are more steady and "level", while the people who rely on the feeling/high they get are oftentimes on an emotional roller coaster ride, there up, then there down, then there up, then there down...

Also, Agape Love is not a feeling (it may be predicated by a feeling/emotion initially, like feeling sorry or taking pity on someone) But, Agape Love is an ACT OF THE WILL, you must use your will, which means you must be logical and clear headed and level, and not drunk or high off of emotions, the WILL is a "choice" that we make that involves our mind, heart, soul, and spirit...

What do you mean by you believe logically, but not spiritually? You've never felt the power or presence of the Holy Spirit?

God Bless!

 

[barrowhamster]

All - thanks for your helpful comments. I appreciate them!

Neogaia777 - I appreciate your comparison between being drunk in the spirit and being high. It is as if when I was initially saved that I was high on the spirit. The novelty of it made me feel really close to God. I felt Him in my heart at that time. I don't anymore. Maybe that relates to your first argument about being drunk in the spirit though.

What I mean when I say I believe logically but not spiritually is that I understand all of the logical arguments for the existence of God and Jesus. The accuracy of the Bible, the archeological arguments for Christ, the extreme unlikeliness that the world could have been created by chance, the existence of universal moral values that had to emerge from somewhere, the evidence for the resurrection, etc. However, still when I pray I find myself questioning how I can believe in something that is extra-ordinary, that is of the spiritual realm. How do I believe in something that is miraculous when I see nothing miraculous today? The question really is - how do you go from having a logical understanding that all the facts add up to the existence of God and transition to really believing in the aspects of Christianity that require faith? I have definitely prayed for many months but still feel like I am a ship lost at sea... I want to believe but just can't get myself to.

 

[Neogaia777]

All - thanks for your helpful comments. I appreciate them!

Neogaia777 - However, still when I pray I find myself questioning how I can believe in something that is extra-ordinary, that is of the spiritual realm. How do I believe in something that is miraculous when I see nothing miraculous today? The question really is - how do you go from having a logical understanding that all the facts add up to the existence of God and transition to really believing in the aspects of Christianity that require faith?

So, your saying that you do, or don't believe in miracles? Believing in miracles definetly requires faith, but can be logical also, The miracles of the past were real, and I hope you believe that. And if you believe that, then that is evidence of a spiritual realm...

And miracles do still happen today, I've seen and heard of people miraculously being healed of paralysis, blindness, deafness, cancer miraculously going away due to the power of prayer, all evidence of another realm, the supernatural, the spiritual... Also, Jesus resurrection and appearing in the Spirit after death is evidence of the spiritual... The mount of transfiguration, voices from Heaven about Christ, need I say more...

God Bless!