How to kill Palestinians

[Rion]

Rion, quit falsely accusing. This is nothing more than an attempt at slanderous defamation.

I'm not, I'm just saying how you come off to me.

I hate no people.

I'm glad to hear that, but it really comes off otherwise.

Zionism is not a people. It is an ideoogy, one that is racist, and hateful, as we have seen demonstrated in this thread by our Jewish Zionist participant.

And so is the ideology that the PLO follows. However... if the Zionists are the trouble makers, why are they the only ones willing to make concessions, and not the PLO?

If we as Christians are not to hate and expose hateful, racist ideologies, then something is very, very wrong.

I agree, but we are to strife against all such ideologies, then I cannot say, in all good consciousness, that Israel is the worse of the two.

I would look to yourself if I were you. . .

Oh I do, believe me I do.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I'm not, I'm just saying how you come off to me.

Your understanding is very slewed and flawed. It is a false accusation regardless. I expect such accusations to cease immediately.

I'm glad to hear that, but it really comes off otherwise.

As I said, I expect such accusations to cease immediately.

And so is the ideology that the PLO follows. However... if the Zionists are the trouble makers, why are they the only ones willing to make concessions, and not the PLO?

Prove that this is true. I challenge you.

I agree, but we are to strife against all such ideologies, then I cannot say, in all good consciousness, that Israel is the worse of the two.

I can, as long as it is purusing the zionist agenda. When it stops doing so, things will change dramatically for the better of all concerned.

Oh I do, believe me I do.

then you need to examine why you support Israel in this comnflict with its hateful, racist Zionist Itron Wall policies bent on ethnicide of the Palestinians so they can save/redeem the land.

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[Tanakh]

You're still not making any sense Tanakh . . ..

The only one here who has called for the liquidation/genocide of an entire people is you, a proud Zionist Jew.

Now, you tell me who is really hateful.

In my book it is those who unabashedly call for the genocide of an entire people so they can have their land.

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I don't know you tell me who is hatful especially for someone who has stated that the Intifada is just because of the "desperation" of the arabs and that "Palestine" must be created to ensure peace which I guarantee you that if "Palestine" were to be created it would not be for peace but for genocide. Hmmm not shocking a Catholic is calling for the destruction of Israel by the "oppressed Palestinians" but then again what else is new.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I don't know you tell me who is hatful especially for someone who has stated that the Intifada is just because of the "desperation" of the arabs and that "Palestine" must be created to ensure peace which I guarantee you that if "Palestine" were to be created it would not be for peace but for genocide. Hmmm not shocking a Catholic is calling for the destruction of Israel by the "oppressed Palestinians" but then again what else is new.

You are still not making sense Tanakh . . you seem to be confusing an ideology, "Zionism" with a country "Israel"..

Israel is not zionism. The end of Zionism will not bring about the destruction of Israel, far from it.

The end of Zionism will bring about the liberation of Isarel form such hatred as Zionisms forces upon Israel and its people. . .

You really aren't making sense .. .

.

 

[Tanakh]

You are still not making sense Tanakh . . you seem to be confusing an ideology, "Zionism" with a country "Israel"..

Israel is not zionism. The end of Zionism will not bring about the destruction of Israel, far from it.

The end of Zionism will bring about the liberation of Isarel form such hatred as Zionisms forces upon Israel and its people. . .

You really aren't making sense .. .

.

Zionism is Israel. That is like saying the United States is not a democracy I mean after all I would be confusing an ideology with a country. Zionism did not force anything on anyone as it was the "Palestinians" who caused the wall. The wall is useless as Israel is simply caging itself into a corner yet if Israel dealt with the arabs as it should then their would be no need for the wall at all. If Zionism falls then Israel will fall as without it Israel would collapse into chaos.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Zionism is Israel.

Balderdash! LOL

No way is Zionism Isarel! As i said before, Zionism is an ideology, Israel is a country.

They are NOT the same thing and Israel does NOT need Zionism.

You are simply engaging in logical fallacy now.

As I said, you are making no sense.

That is like saying the United States is not a democracy I mean after all I would be confusing an ideology with a country.

Democracy is a political system, Zionism is an ideology.

You are still making illogical comparisons that are invalid.

Zionism did not force anything on anyone as it was the "Palestinians" who caused the wall.

I am sorry you don't understand what the IRON WALL is and that it started a century ago.. . .

The wall is useless as Israel is simply caging itself into a corner yet if Israel dealt with the arabs as it should then their would be no need for the wall at all. If Zionism falls then Israel will fall as without it Israel would collapse into chaos.

And how should Israel deal with the Arabs?


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[Tanakh]

Balderdash! LOL

No way is Zionism Isarel! As i said before, Zionism is an ideology, Israel is a country.

They are NOT the same thing and Israel does NOT need Zionism.

You are simply engaging in logical fallacy now.

As I said, you are making no sense.



Democracy is a political system, Zionism is an ideology.

You are still making illogical comparisons that are invalid.



I am sorry you don't understand what the IRON WALL is and that it started a century ago.. . .



And how should Israel deal with the Arabs?


.

The wall was not even up 20 years ago so I don't know how the century came up. You seem so sure that Israel does not need Zionism so what makes you think so?

 

[Rion]

Your understanding is very slewed and flawed. It is a false accusation regardless. I expect such accusations to cease immediately.

It's not an attack. I said that your comments suggested hatred, you say you don't. That's fine with me.

Prove that this is true. I challenge you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/wisrael109.xml

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE5D6173EF930A35751C0A965958260

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/18/AR2005081801646.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-99978027.html

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/57207212.html?dids=57207212:57207212&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=JUL+30%2C+2000&author=Lee+Hockstader&pub=The+Washington+Post&desc='Unique+Opportunity'+Lost+at+Camp+David%3B+Arafat+Unmoved+by+Jerusalem+Concessions&pqatl=google

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washing...+of+Civil+Powers+to+Palestinians&pqatl=google

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

I've got more, but eh, you get the point.

then you need to examine why you support Israel in this comnflict with its hateful, racist Zionist Itron Wall policies bent on ethnicide of the Palestinians so they can save/redeem the land.

I don't "support" Israel, so much as I recognize that the PLO is the real evil here, while Israel should repent and then rely on God, not nukes.

It's like the Babylonian Exile. Yes, Babylon punished sinful, wicked Israel. Yet Babylon was considered far, far worse.

 

[thereselittleflower]

The wall was not even up 20 years ago so I don't know how the century came up.

As I said, you don't know (or you are trying to hide that you do know) what the Iron Wall is.

Time for a history lesson:

Soon after Menachem Begin and the Likud party won the Israeli election in 1977, the government's foreign policy was stated as the following:

"the Jewish people have unchallengeable, eternal, historic right to the Land of Israel [including the West Bank and Gaza Strip], the inheritance of their forefathers," and pledged to build rural and urban exclusive Jewish colonies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip." (Iron Wall, p. 354-355)​

And now to the original document:

Vladimir Jabotinsky


The Iron Wall
(We and the Arabs)
(1923)


Thus we conclude that we cannot promise anything to the Arabs of the Land of Israel or the Arab countries. Their voluntary agreement is out of the question. Hence those who hold that an agreement with the natives is an essential condition for Zionism can now say “no” and depart from Zionism. Zionist colonization, even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs. To formulate it any other way would only be hypocrisy.


All this does not mean that any kind of agreement is impossible, only a voluntary agreement is impossible. As long as there is a spark of hope that they can get rid of us, they will not sell these hopes, not for any kind of sweet words or tasty morsels, because they are not a rabble but a nation, perhaps somewhat tattered, but still living. A living people makes such enormous concessions on such fateful questions only when there is no hope left. Only when not a single breach is visible in the iron wall, only then do extreme groups lose their sway, and influence transfers to moderate groups. Only then would these moderate groups come to us with proposals for mutual concessions. And only then will moderates offer suggestions for compromise on practical questions like a guarantee against expulsion, or equality and national autonomy.

I am optimistic that they will indeed be granted satisfactory assurances and that both peoples, like good neighbors, can then live in peace. But the only path to such an agreement is the iron wall, that is to say the strengthening in Palestine of a government without any kind of Arab influence, that is to say one against which the Arabs will fight. In other words, for us the only path to an agreement in the future is an absolute refusal of any attempts at an agreement now.[/B]


http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/ironwall.htm
​

For a detailed look at Zionism's Iron wall through most of the last century:

Lenni Brenner

The Iron Wall
Zionist Revisionism from Jabotinsky to Shamir
(1984)

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/index.htm

You seem so sure that Israel does not need Zionism so what makes you think so?

Because no country needs such a hateful, racist ideology to survive. Countries need truth and justice and equality for all its citizens to survive.

Zionism only provdes that for Israel's Jewish citizens. Thus it is racist in nature and should be outright rejected by all reasonable and rational peoples who value truth, justice and equality under the law.

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[koban4max]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071007/wl_nm/palestinians_israel_rocket_dc


Fire a rocket into an open field and wait for the Israeli reaction.

How to kill even more? Hope it kills some random Israeli who has nothing to do with any of it and cause a massive reaction from Israel.

Make no mistake , the worst enemy of the average Palestinian are these idiots.

Any one who kills their "enemy" and knows the reaction murders their "friends".

Devil.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It's not an attack. I said that your comments suggested hatred, you say you don't. That's fine with me.

Rion, that's not what you said. THIS is what you said:

I'm not, actually. I'm rather sorry that you feel such hatred towards the "Zionists."​

No "suggested" about it. I am glad you understand now you were wrong to say so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/wisrael109.xml

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE5D6173EF930A35751C0A965958260

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/18/AR2005081801646.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-99978027.html

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/57207212.html?dids=57207212:57207212&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=JUL+30%2C+2000&author=Lee+Hockstader&pub=The+Washington+Post&desc='Unique+Opportunity'+Lost+at+Camp+David%3B+Arafat+Unmoved+by+Jerusalem+Concessions&pqatl=google

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washing...+of+Civil+Powers+to+Palestinians&pqatl=google

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

I've got more, but eh, you get the point.

We will examine this later, and we will see what is the real issue here.

I don't "support" Israel, so much as I recognize that the PLO is the real evil here, while Israel should repent and then rely on God, not nukes.

It's like the Babylonian Exile. Yes, Babylon punished sinful, wicked Israel. Yet Babylon was considered far, far worse.

No its not. In the Babylonian Exile, Babylon was the superior force.

Here, Israel is the superior force, with 200 nuke trained on middle east cities and who knows where else, with the even bigger superior force of the US backing them up.

No, nothing like the Bablyonian exile ..


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[thereselittleflower]

Devil.

???

 

[Rion]

No its not. In the Babylonian Exile, Babylon was the superior force.

Here, Israel is the superior force, with 200 nuke trained on middle east cities and who knows where else, with the even bigger superior force of the US backing them up.

No, nothing like the Bablyonian exile ..

Ignore the size, and look at their behavior. Israel is sinful and needs to repent, but which does the worst behavior? If you're honest with yourself, the PLO.

As for the nukes, that's a deterent for Egypt, Iran (yanno, whose crazy leader denies the holocaust happened and wants to "bath the world in blood" etc). Israel would not nuke Palestine area anyhow, as it's too close to where they live.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Ignore the size, and look at their behavior. Israel is sinful and needs to repent, but which does the worst behavior? If you're honest with yourself, the PLO.

Rion, I have studied this issue in depth, and I can't agree with you. I am sorry.

As for the nukes, that's a deterent for Egypt, Iran (yanno, whose crazy leader denies the holocaust happened and wants to "bath the world in blood" etc). Israel would not nuke Palestine area anyhow, as it's too close to where they live.

Nukes trained at countries without nukes are a form of bullying, for they have nothing similar to use as a deterent against Israel and the Zionist goals of posssessing all the land from the Euphrates to the Sea to the River of Egypt, which includes all or part of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt.

What do they have to deter the Zionist regime from its aspirations?

You see, during the cold war, there was real deterence because both sides could annihlate each other with nukes. So they both refrained.

We have no such system in place in the middle east.

I really do not thinik you understand the middle east much at all.

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[Rion]

Uh, no, they have them because those other nations want to "drive Israel into the sea" which is M.E. slang for "Wipe them out, all of them." As I said, they rely on Nukes to protect them, not the Lord.

 

[Tanakh]

Rion, I have studied this issue in depth, and I can't agree with you. I am sorry.



Nukes trained at countries without nukes are a form of bullying, for they have nothing similar to use as a deterent against Israel and the Zionist goals of posssessing all the land from the Euphrates to the Sea to the River of Egypt, which includes all or part of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt.

What do they have to deter the Zionist regime from its aspirations?

You see, during the cold war, there was real deterence because both sides could annihlate each other with nukes. So they both refrained.

We have no such system in place in the middle east.

I really do not thinik you understand the middle east much at all.

.

Should these country's have weapons has a deterrent against Israel having the Biblical borders that G-d promised us forever. Are you saying that these nations should have nuclear weapons to prevent Israel from getting back what is rightfully ours? The reason why Israel has nuclear weapons is not just a deterrent in the Middle East but for the entire world so that if some country thousands of miles away from Israel decides to kill Jews on mass then Israel can respond by saying you had better stop or you will pay the prise. And the fact the other Middle Eastern country's might not have nuclear weapons means nothing because if they get them then what do you think will happen? So what if they don't have nuclear weapons it is war, just because they do not have them does not mean we cannot have them after all it is war.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Uh, no, they have them because those other nations want to "drive Israel into the sea" which is M.E. slang for "Wipe them out, all of them." As I said, they rely on Nukes to protect them, not the Lord.

Sorry, but it is not Israel that other nations have a problem with, it is with the zionist government and its policies they have a problem.

Once that government is no more and a true democracy takes its place, treating palestinians as equals with Jews, then the need for action against it is gone.

This is not a Jewish Arab issue.

This is a Zionist vs anyone occupying "their" land issue . . it wouldn't matter who it was.

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[thereselittleflower]

Should these country's have weapons has a deterrent against Israel having the Biblical borders that G-d promised us forever. Are you saying that these nations should have nuclear weapons to prevent Israel from getting back what is rightfully ours?

Tanakh, this argument about what is rightfully yours is bogus, and we have already been through this so called promise "forever" . . . we have already seen it wasn't ever forever, but for an age. Your claims have been invalidated by the very scriptures you hold as your proof.

OLAM means for a period of time, with a beginning and an end, the end of which was unknown at the time of olam's use.

That's all.

The OLAM of the promise is over and has been over for about 2000 years.

Your claim is bogus.

The reason why Israel has nuclear weapons is not just a deterrent in the Middle East but for the entire world so that if some country thousands of miles away from Israel decides to kill Jews on mass then Israel can respond by saying you had better stop or you will pay the prise.

And there you have it!

Zionists plan to strong arm the rest of the world into doing what they want. They have the nukes, and like bullies, they aren't afraid to use them.

So much for christian support of Israel. The support chrsistians have given thus far has resulted in this situation. Christians of the US look at what you have helped to create!

And the fact the other Middle Eastern country's might not have nuclear weapons means nothing because if they get them then what do you think will happen? So what if they don't have nuclear weapons it is war, just because they do not have them does not mean we cannot have them after all it is war.

A war Zionists created . . . . .


.

 

[Tanakh]

Tanakh, this argument about what is rightfully yours is bogus, and we have already been through this so called promise "forever" . . . we have already seen it wasn't ever forever, but for an age. Your claims have been invalidated by the very scriptures you hold as your proof.

OLAM means for a period of time, with a beginning and an end, the end of which was unknown at the time of olam's use.

That's all.

The OLAM of the promise is over and has been over for about 2000 years.

Your claim is bogus.



And there you have it!

Zionists plan to strong arm the rest of the world into doing what they want. They have the nukes, and like bullies, they aren't afraid to use them.

So much for christian support of Israel. The support chrsistians have given thus far has resulted in this situation. Christians of the US look at what you have helped to create!



A war Zionists created . . . . .


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Let me guess the claim to the land ended with Jesus because that cannot be so as Jesus failed according to the mandate that was set of who the messiah will really be and if you fail just 1 you cannot be the messiah and he failed more then 1 so he cannot be the messiah. Their is nothing in the Torah that proves he is the messiah because he is not so the promise still stands and ALWAYS will. It is not my claim but the cliam of G-d so no it is not bogus.

 

[Micah68]

I'm not, actually. I'm rather sorry that you feel such hatred towards the "Zionists."

Hatred towards 'zionism' is no different than despising Nazism. What about your own hatred towards anyone that does not hold to your way of thinking? It is ludicrous to think one person/people is more deserving of justice and fair treatment than another. It is ludicrous to think that there has never been an indigenous people in 'GODS' Holy Land, in all honestly the Palestinian people could care less what the land is called, and they would gladly recognized Israel's right to exsist if their own rights were recognized. The Palestinians (Christian and Muslim, Palestinian/Arab Jews are 2nd class citizens) just want to be treated with respect the same as every other human being, deserving no more or no less, able to provide for their families, their children the same as you or I. If you think the injustice done to the Palestinians is justified, then you are WRONG! Educate they self. Your brothers and sisters in Christ are crying for peace. -Micah 6:8

Video – The Easiest Targets: The Israeli Policy of Strip Searching Women and Children Just a small sample of the humiliation suffered daily.

This article from Israeli icon of the left ,Uri Avnery explains consisely why Zionist leaders had to push the concept of Islam vs the "Judeo-Christian tradition" to justify continued oppression of Palestinians. In the "The Mother of all Pretexts" Avnery says that "our leaders are exploiting this slogan as a pretext for sabotaging any possibility of an Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation. It is just one more in a long line of pretexts." and he goes on to list some of those pretexes (http://zope. gush-shalom. org/home/ en/channels/ avnery/119228853 3/ )

A NEW ISRAELI STUDY CONFIRMS OUR WORST FEARS : On the academic research of Psychologist Nofer Ishai-Karen and Psychology Prof. Joel Elitzur, Dalia Karpel shortened translation of article in Haaretz `Hamedovevet` Translation by Israeli Occupation Magazine (this was in the Hebrew not English edition of Haaretz)
http://www.kibush. co.il/show_ file.asp? num=22525 (English partial translation)
http://www.haaretz. co.il/hasite/ spages/905287. htm (Hebrew in Haaretz)