How to frame Kavanaugh or any other innocent man

[HannahT]

People are going to believe what they want to believe. Investigations, etc won't make any difference.

Anita Hill got the investigation, and the FBI found her charges unfounded. It didn't move the needle one bit.

Politicians and the media are going to use these two up, and make a lot of money doing it.

That part is the only proof you can count on.

 

[MoneyGuy]

So, Kavanaugh is innocent. Gotcha.

I await the thread opining that Trump is an honest man.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

So, Kavanaugh is innocent. Gotcha.

... Until proven guilty, yes. That is kinda one of the oldest tenets of law, dating back to Antonius Pius in the second century

I await the thread opining that Trump is an honest man.

I can't speak for this one, from my perspective he's not the reincarnation of Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli. I honestly don't think he's that dishonest. I'm sure he believes most of the manure he spouts.
That's what makes him more frightning to me, better a dishonest but intelligent president who understands the limits of their power rather than a mostly honest idiot who believes they have both power and the wit to use it.

There is nothing more dangerous than someone who only thinks they know what they're doing.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There is no time or place of the crime.

There is a time and place: Summer. Only problem is he was not there that summer. He went home to spend the vacation with his family. That is what she should have been doing. He found his journal from high school so he has a record of all the events he attended & for the event she is talking about he was not even in town at the time

 

[joshua 1 9]

So she concocted a story to her therapist

Is this the therapist who took notes that said she was in bed with four different men? The story she told the therapist and the story she is telling now is not the same story.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Until proven guilty, yes.

In this case they are trying to determine how fit he is to be on the supreme court. He is not being tried for a crime. She is trying to block his appointment to the court because he is a conservative and she is a liberal. She does not make any attempt at all to hide her motive.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What I am starting to sense in discussions of this sort is that when a male is accused of a sexual indiscretion, he is innocent until proven guilty. On the other hand, it would seem that the female accuser is guilty (of a lie) until proven innocent.

...a person's political affiliation seems to drive the selective outrage on this topic as well.

The people who were fired up about Clinton are blasé about Brett, and vice versa.


In particularly polarizing times, people tend to wear pretty big blinders, and are willing to basically insult their own intelligence in order to defend their party.

 

[Ringo84]

Is this the therapist who took notes that said she was in bed with four different men? The story she told the therapist and the story she is telling now is not the same story.

Yeah, about that: too bad that they haven't asked the therapist to come answer questions in Thursday's hearing. But I guess they're afraid that some facts might accidentally slip out.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Might also be good to hear from this old roommate of Kavanaugh:
Peter Kauffmann on Twitter

But again: I wouldn't want anything to get in the way of Kavanaugh's divine right to a seat on the Supreme Court. He's suffered enough, right?
Ringo

 

[redleghunter]

What I am starting to sense in discussions of this sort is that when a male is accused of a sexual indiscretion, he is innocent until proven guilty. On the other hand, it would seem that the female accuser is guilty (of a lie) until proven innocent.

In our system of jurisprudence the accused are in fact innocent until proven guilty.

What point were you making exactly?

 

[redleghunter]

How does the whole no scrutiny thing when demanding a police investigation?

The state of Maryland has no statute of limitations on sexual assault claims.

The question is why has not Ms Ford filed a report with the Chevy Chase police or DA. That is how investigations start. By the victim filing a claim.

 

[redleghunter]

Are you suggesting that Kavanaugh has been framed?

That’s extremely unlikely. He did it. Beyond a reasonable doubt.

And your evidence is what exactly?

 

[Ringo84]

In our system of jurisprudence the accused are in fact innocent until proven guilty.

What point were you making exactly?

Seems to me that they were making the point that male accusers are instantly believed and female accusers have to produce names, dates, Social Security numbers, favorite ice cream flavors and the weather on the date of their assault to even begin to be believed.
Ringo

 

[redleghunter]

Seems to me that they were making the point that male accusers are instantly believed and female accusers have to produce names, dates, Social Security numbers, favorite ice cream flavors and the weather on the date of their assault to even begin to be believed.
Ringo

It’s all the gender stuff y’all add to the facts of jurisprudence.

Justice cares not one iota whether an accuser is male or female.

Any accused is innocent until proven guilty. And the offended must provide evidence in support of their charge or claim.

Federal Rules of Evidence

 

[Ringo84]

It’s all the gender stuff y’all add to the facts of jurisprudence.

Justice cares not one iota whether an accuser is male or female.

Any accused is innocent until proven guilty. And the offended must provide evidence in support of their charge or claim.

Federal Rules of Evidence

All sounds good until you factor in the fact that all of you seem to think that the mere existence of an investigation - even of a supposedly innocent man - is a bridge too far.

Seems like Kavanaugh wants all the benefit of the doubt without any of the proof.
Ringo

 

[redleghunter]

All sounds good until you factor in the fact that all of you seem to think that the mere existence of an investigation - even of a supposedly innocent man - is a bridge too far.

I’ve said this a dozen times all Ms Ford has to do is file a report with the Chevy Chase police or DA. Maryland has no statute of limitations on sexual crimes. Question is why hasn’t she with such high powered legal representation? Don’t you think having a pending police investigation hanging over a SCOTUS nom would be more compelling than asking for an FBI investigation which would not have jurisdiction? The FBI would just call Maryland DA and ask if there are any criminal charges or pending investigations. The answer would be no and case closed. Which is what they did the six other times they investigated Kavanaugh.

Seems like Kavanaugh wants all the benefit of the doubt without any of the proof.
Ringo

Now that elicits a wry smile on my face. What do you think innocent until proven guilty means?

 

[Ringo84]

I’ve said this a dozen times all Ms Ford has to do is file a report with the Chevy Chase police or DA. Maryland has no statute of limitations on sexual crimes. Question is why hasn’t she with such high powered legal representation? Don’t you think having a pending police investigation hanging over a SCOTUS nom would be more compelling than asking for an FBI investigation which would not have jurisdiction? The FBI would just call Maryland DA and ask if there are any criminal charges or pending investigations. The answer would be no and case closed. Which is what they did the six other times they investigated Kavanaugh.


Now that elicits a wry smile on my face. What do you think innocent until proven guilty means?

And I've said a dozen times that Brett should put up or shut up. If he's innocent, let him prove it by telling Donny to open an investigation. That will put this to rest so he can either be confirmed or slither back to his federal judgeship. Otherwise, I don't want to hear he or his supporters whine about "innocence before proven guilt again". That's all I have to say about this issue.
Ringo

 

[Calminian]

Seems to me that they were making the point that male accusers are instantly believed and female accusers have to produce names, dates, Social Security numbers, favorite ice cream flavors and the weather on the date of their assault to even begin to be believed.
Ringo

Says the Clinton/Ellison supporter.

 

[redleghunter]

And I've said a dozen times that Brett should put up or shut up. If he's innocent, let him prove it by telling Donny to open an investigation. That will put this to rest so he can either be confirmed or slither back to his federal judgeship. Otherwise, I don't want to hear he or his supporters whine about "innocence before proven guilt again". That's all I have to say about this issue.
Ringo

Why would an innocent man ask for an investigation of himself after being investigated 6 times previously?

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

This is not Venezuela

 

[Calminian]

And I've said a dozen times that Brett should put up or shut up. If he's innocent, let him prove it by telling Donny to open an investigation. That will put this to rest so he can either be confirmed or slither back to his federal judgeship. Otherwise, I don't want to hear he or his supporters whine about "innocence before proven guilt again". That's all I have to say about this issue.
Ringo

He's willing to take questions under oath from a sex crimes prosecutor. Is Ford?



Lawyer Casts Doubt on Ford Appearing at Thursday Kavanaugh Hearing

If Ford is lying and she's smart, she will not show up.