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How to deal with "Them."

Macrina

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This is a sensitive topic, but I intend my words in a constructive and supportive tone. I hope they will be accepted in that manner.

I have quite a bit of experience at being the most conservative in the room. As an undergrad, I was at a secular university which had little patience for evangelical theology. One of the theological schools I attended (the one from which I received my MDiv) is in the running for the most liberal in the country; most of the issues here pale in comparison to what I faced there every day. My denomination is incredibly diverse, with a disproportionate number of the clergy being liberal. Therefore, I've had to learn some skills not only for survival in environments where I am the theological minority, but also techniques which help my convictions to be heard in a productive way. This hasn't been easy knowledge for me to learn, so I hope it is of value if I pass on a few pointers:

Beware of falling into the "us verses them" trap. It's so easy to feel like people are against us, but it can lead to a counterproductive defensiveness or even aggression. That doesn't win anybody over, and just raises everyone's blood pressure.

Instead, I've found it beneficial to recognize when people are working towards the same values as me, but interpret those values in different ways. For example, I may believe that one course of action is a just one, and others may believe that another is more just. We disagree, but we share the principle of justice. This can also apply to other values, such as holiness or compassion. Being able to say to one another "you and I are both seeking ___ in this situation" can lead to a mutual team effort to find a solution, rather than further polarization. Furthermore, people are more likely to listen to us when we acknowledge the positive values for which they are working.

Which leads me to: Listen. A useful technique for me is to paraphrase back what someone is telling me and ask "is this a correct understanding?" I try to get to the point where I could articulate the other person's position, and their reasoning, even if I do not agree with it. This helps me to understand where they are coming from and to be alert to possible solutions to a conflict. I can't recommend this simple approach highly enough. Combine that with being willing to refine your paraphrase according to the person's feedback, and you'll find communication gets a lot easier.

Be cautious about ascribing motives to someone else. We can't see into someone's hearts or minds, and human communication is imperfect -- so it's all too easy for us to misinterpret someone else's motivations. Without strong evidence to the contrary, I find it's generally best to interact with people using the functional assumption that they are representing their motives accurately. Doing anything else is insulting to the other party and can cause communication to deteriorate.

Related to the above: Avoid character judgments. People don't like that and will tune you out.

Assess what is essential and what is non-negotiable. Determine if there is an area in which you can be flexible and find room for compromise. There are certainly some thing that cannot be compromised, but not every issue will fall into that category.

Last but certainly not least, remain calm. Present your position clearly and methodically, detailing the values you are trying to pursue and why you think your course of action is the best for the purpose. If you feel like you might lose your temper, take a step back until you can continue on an even keel. If attacked, do not respond in kind, but maintain respectful and rational discourse. You represent your position best when you yourself remain collected.

As I said, these are some lessons that I have learned over the years being "the token conservative." I would like to think that the growing pains associated with these lessons didn't go to waste, so I hope it is useful for me to pass these tips on.

Mac
 

Nadiine

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I plan on reading this over again, however, I'd like to note that even the Apostles and Christ drew lines in the sand with some.
Jesus didn't ask all this when He saw the moneychangers at the temple - He flew right up there in a zealous 'rage' and cleaned house out.

Look at Him with the pharisees.

To be honest, this is turning into a circus here anymore imo with all that's being let in - STARTING WITH CULTS.
And now here we go with this Beth whatever and have these people lurking here continually & doing reporting.

As I see it, they're taking advantage of a forum that's experiencing chaos and trying to gain as much of a stronghold as possible.
I'd say the mentality of us against them is less on our side than it is other's sides.

There's some good reason that we have people here that aren't just swallowing everything we're being fed & told to accept.
Some of us aren't being "divisive", some of this just doesn't even need to be happening. As if there isn't enough chaos right now with staff quitting & taking leaves & burnout & whatever.
As if the enemy doesn't know when to come to make advances - I wish other people could see WHY some see "red flags".
 
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Nadiine

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Beware of falling into the "us verses them" trap. It's so easy to feel like people are against us, but it can lead to a counterproductive defensiveness or even aggression. That doesn't win anybody over, and just raises everyone's blood pressure

I'd also like to make a note that, it isn't always that we have to "win everybody over" either. We have this mentality that whatever we do, we have to be out to "win people" - Sometimes saying NO to find it more important to keep a place SAFE INSIDE is the answer to helping win more people over.
If the Christians here aren't HEALTHY in a healthy spiritual environment, YOU WON'T WIN ANYTHING BUT DEFEAT.

The Christians here are being pushed into liberal toleration and now cults joining the forum, and then now invisible forums full of whatever - with some satan forum thing being pushed....
this is all creating chaos here, and then we get this "dont be an us vs. them mentality"... well then create a sound environment for Christians here, so we can be better equipt to reach out.

the Lost come here & see one false teaching after another and then we expect to "win people"?

Sorry Mac, this is ludicrous. People will be WON not by taking on the satanic and cults, PEOPLE WILL BE WON BY TRUTH OF GOD BEING PROCLAIMED BY REAL CHRISTIANS who know their God.
 
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JimfromOhio

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Good Thread.

I understand but I can from my own conviction to disagree. Conservative Christians can work together even when they differ on minor doctrinal issues. I often stay away from debating with those who advocate the regulative principle do so because I really believed that they actually enjoy fighting over small matters rather than spiritual truth. Such arguements such as smallest formality worship details can easily become a form of legalism rather than in spirit. I have no interest in debating silly issues when there are more important issues at hand.
 
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Macrina

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I'm just curious. Has this advice been posted elsewhere?

No, I figured I'd post in in my "home" forum, especially since it deals specifically with my experience as a conservative among liberals. But the advice could easily apply to others, as well -- it's just basic communication stuff, even though sometimes it's hard for me to implement it.
 
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3girls2dogs

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It just seems that if both sides of an issue got the same advice, maybe it would be more effective. It doesn't seem fair to ask one side of an issue to *suck it up* and allow another side free reign.

Personally, I always try to avoid confrontation. I try not to respond to anything in the heat of emotion. I usually end up regretting most anything I say. But that is my own choice in how I deal with things. I do it because I want to, but I don't appreciate being told to *rise above*. It's always been a pet peeve of mine. Where is the line drawn. When does the order to *rise above* become an order to withstand abuse.

I try to tell my children all the time that it is very important to not be sucked into petty problems. You know, the basic advice a mother gives; don't call names, treat others as you wish to be treated, don't hit, don't tattle over everything. But I will not tell my children to cower to a bully just to avoid confrontation. I will not expect them to ever deny something that is vehementy important to them just because it may make someone else uncomfortable.
 
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JimfromOhio

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You make it sound like that they are always "behaving" as described when you know it is not true. There are times when we are to behave that way and there are times we are to behave like Christ did with others in "calm" way of rebuking.

We live in a dark world regardless. We are trying to hard and keep forgeting that God is in control. We are not in contol. We can voice our reasons but we don't have the right to force others to accept our reasons. That belongs to God who is the only one who can "convict" people.


There are chaos because everyone is fighting including us. I have learned to trust God by accepting His providence in these matters in three areas:
God's will
God's power
God's timing

I am a non-militant convservative Christian.
 
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Time2BCounted

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You make it sound like that they are always "behaving" as described when you know it is not true. There are times when we are to behave that way and there are times we are to behave like Christ did with others in "calm" way of rebuking.

She makes it sound like we have only one mode?... many people disagree with you... and how calm was Christ when he turned the tables? or when He said you brood of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?




I personally feel the only ones being forced are the ones who will stand with a little guts...



There are chaos because everyone is fighting including us. I have learned to trust God by accepting His providence in these matters in three areas:
God's will
God's power
God's timing

I am a non-militant convservative Christian.

And where does standing and sharp rebuke come in for you? Ever?
 
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Macrina

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It just seems that if both sides of an issue got the same advice, maybe it would be more effective. It doesn't seem fair to ask one side of an issue to *suck it up* and allow another side free reign.

You're right. It isn't fair.

My posting to this "side" isn't a way of laying blame or saying that conservatives somehow owe greater compromise. It's more a matter of encouraging "my" group to take the high road. I could go to people with whom I disagree and tell them to take the high road, but they wouldn't take that nearly as well as if it came from "one of their own."

I don't have control over how others interact with me. I do have control over how I interact with them. I seek to effect change where change is feasible.

I would be thrilled if other groups on this site also adopted this approach as their own. It truly does work best, and is the most fair, when all "sides" are giving it equal effort. Sadly, things aren't always equal, and at times the best we can do is keep our own house in order.
 
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JimfromOhio

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Its not about winning. Everyone who is born into this world are sinners and destinated for hell unless they are born again Christians. False teachings are here to keep people from the truth. Often the opposite like when truth is often prevented if Christianity is known as a legalistic system which cause a delusion of eternal life.

We can argue and they still won't believe. Why? God has not convicted them to believe. God is the one that calls them to believe. As Jesus says in John 15:16: "You did not choose me; but I chose you...." Conversion is solely the work of the Holy Spirit: "No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3). What may appear to be a "decision" from a human perspective is actually the result of the work of the Holy Spirit through the power of the Gospel. We are here as His ambassadors which God is making His appeal through us. Through Divine Providence, we have power to share spiritual revival that only the Holy Spirit can provide.
 
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Nadiine

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This is a contravercial subject and i move it be placed in the debate sub forum so we obey our own rules
I'd agree, altho I didn't plan to add anymore to the 'debate' than I had already said.
*blink*
 
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DerSchweik

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Nadiine

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Right, I agree! It's NOT about 'winning'. I like your posts here.
 
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JimfromOhio

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She makes it sound like we have only one mode?... many people disagree with you... and how calm was Christ when he turned the tables? or when He said you brood of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?
Often Jesus was agree with sinners who were religious people. Very rare He was angry with non-religious sinners.

I personally feel the only ones being forced are the ones who will stand with a little guts...
sounds pretty fleshy more than spiritual, huh?

And where does standing and sharp rebuke come in for you? Ever?

Apparantly you have not seen my rebukes around the forum in the past few years.
 
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Nadiine

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Macrina

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Time, you might find you encountered fewer of these difficulties if you employed some different communication techniques. I read the thread to which you referred me, and what I saw was miscommunication. You were misunderstanding what Fr. Rick said and instead of listening to his clarifications, you ran with the accusations. That tends to put people off.


Nadiine, it's not about us "winning" people, per se. It's more about us being good stewards of what we are given, discerning speakers of the Good News with which we have been entrusted.
 
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