How to convince R. Catholics that the ('host' wafer) is not Christs flesh and bone? (2)

[Schroeder]

Please quote my post where I state that God "needs us to do this and that".

Where is your evidence that we use the 'added rites" of the "jewish priests" ?

Where does John write about "rites" in 1 John ?

everything outside of showing up at church and shareing with each other could be placed there. all sacraments ordances etc. are add ons. not needed. not saying they cannot be done just not needed to be done. Well is the eucharist a command or not is water baptism a command or not.

 

[patricius79]

Like the headgear, LLOJ

Now we can settle down for another 1000 posts in which no one convinces our RC friends, and where we can point out that the Orthodox also hold the Real Presence, and then point out that this should really be about Transubstantiation if it is just for RCCs. After that we can move to to swapping the usual verses, referring to the Greek, pointing out what the ECFs wrote, and throwing in references to cannibalism

Did I miss something out?

So, away we go:o

peace,

Anglian

I konw that Chrysostom, Augustine, Gregory Nyssa, John Damascene, Justin, Irenaeus, Athanasius, Jerome, etc all testify explicitly that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Sacrifice of the Liturgy

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Anglian

Like the headgear, LLOJ

Now we can settle down for another 1000 posts in which no one convinces our RC friends, and where we can point out that the Orthodox also hold the Real Presence, and then point out that this should really be about Transubstantiation if it is just for RCCs. After that we can move to to swapping the usual verses, referring to the Greek, pointing out what the ECFs wrote, and throwing in references to cannibalism

Did I miss something out?

So, away we go:o

peace,

Anglian
​

I konw that Chrysostom, Augustine, Gregory Nyssa, John Damascene, Justin, Irenaeus, Athanasius, Jerome, etc all testify explicitly that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Sacrifice of the Liturgy

In what way did say that happened?

Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation?




.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

In what way did say that happened?

Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation?




.

I thought that this threads title was familiar; raising the dead LLoJ?

By the way, the answer is Divine mystery.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I thought that this threads title was familiar; raising the dead LLoJ?

By the way, the answer is Divine mystery.

It must be, as the Jews of today are still scratching their heads over it




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[CMatt25]

I apologize for not reading through these many, many posts or the earlier thread. But can someone at this point who does not believe in the physical real presence of Christ, body and blood in their Communion service, please help me to understand. My background is Roman Catholic but I very much want to understand the beliefs of Protestant Christians who do not believe the bread and wine or juice become Christ's flesh and blood. I know Roman Catholics and others refer to the early fathers as having testified that the bread and wine become Christ's Body and Blood.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is do Protestants who believe differently, believe the Church was wrong about this for the 1500 yrs prior to the Reformation? If so why would it have taken 1500 yrs before it was challenged as a false doctrine? Zwingli did, right? Was the Church straying from the beginning on this and other teachings but it took 1500 yrs before Christ led reform?

Or is it that you disagree that the early Church and fathers even taught the physical presence of His body and blood in the first place?

I'm very sincere in asking this. Because my background is limited to RC teaching, I just truly want to understand Protestant thought without any interest in debate. Please help. Thank you ahead.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I apologize for not reading through these many, many posts or the earlier thread. But can someone at this point who does not believe in the physical real presence of Christ, body and blood in their Communion service, please help me to understand. My background is Roman Catholic but I very much want to understand the beliefs of Protestant Christians who do not believe the bread and wine or juice become Christ's flesh and blood. I know Roman Catholics and others refer to the early fathers as having testified that the bread and wine become Christ's Body and Blood.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is do Protestants who believe differently, believe the Church was wrong about this for the 1500 yrs prior to the Reformation? If so why would it have taken 1500 yrs before it was challenged as a false doctrine? Zwingli did, right? Was the Church straying from the beginning on this and other teachings but it took 1500 yrs before Christ led reform?

Or is it that you disagree that the early Church and fathers even taught the physical presence of His body and blood in the first place?

I'm very sincere in asking this. Because my background is limited to RC teaching, I just truly want to understand Protestant thought without any interest in debate. Please help. Thank you ahead.

Sorry, I can't help you here, we Lutherans, particularly we Confessional Lutherans accept the teaching of the real and true presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist, given and shed for us, for the forgiveness of sins; a means of Grace.

 

[Philothei]

Ah... no this again.... It will go around in circles... Plus we are nit picking and playing with words...Flesh and bones ?? Christ is NOT only flesh and bones he has a soul and spirit... He is fully God and fully man...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Something to consider...

8th century Italy and a miracle occurs!

Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

FACTS:

* The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
* The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
* In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
* The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

Source: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ah... no this again.... It will go around in circles... Plus we are nit picking and playing with words...Flesh and bones ??
Christ is NOT only flesh and bones he has a soul and spirit... He is fully God and fully man...

That is what I always thought......



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[LittleLambofJesus]

In what way did say that happened?

Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation?
.

How do the EOC view the Eucharist compared the the RCC?

 

[kepha31]

How do the EOC view the Eucharist compared the the RCC?

Off hand, I'd say it's the same.

Protestants view the Real Presence the same as Jews and Muslims view the Incarnation: God couldn't or wouldn't or shouldn't become man; God couldn't or wouldn't or shouldn't be substantially present in Bread and Wine.

 

[Rick Otto]

It's a blue pill / red pill issue for us guys who basically agree with Zwingli.

 

[seashale76]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "How to convince R. Catholics that the ('host' wafer) is not Christs flesh and bone?"

I didn't read the original thread or this one. However- if you are trying to convince anyone that communion in your church isn't the body and blood of Christ- then you won't be hearing any arguments from those of us in churches that believe in the Real Presence. We don't think you have it either.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's a blue pill / red pill issue for us guys who basically agree with Zwingli.

Well put. Thank you.