How to become a Calvinist in 5 easy steps

atpollard

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I love it.
So true.

It reminds me of the Winston Churchill quote: "You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else."

That's sort of how we come to Calvinism.
Nobody "LIKES IT" ... it just turns out to be true, so we accept that is how God does things.
 
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Jonaitis

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I'm surprised, and yet not, that belief in Calvinism has grown over the last several years or so, especially on this forum. It was the most unfamiliar and rejected beliefs on this forum when I first joined, and I use to discuss it frequently back then and receive a lot of backlash and curiosity.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I'm surprised, and yet not, that belief in Calvinism has grown over the last several years or so, especially on this forum. It was the most unfamiliar and rejected beliefs on this forum when I first joined, and I use to discuss it frequently back then and receive a lot of backlash and curiosity.

I tend to take a cyclical view in general of cultural history rather than a progressive view. At the end of the nineteenth century progressivism came to the fore in culture which developed into Modernism in all of its various manifestations. By the end of the twentieth century Modernism had pretty much run its course, both intellectually and culturally and progressivists decided that we had entered into Post-Modernism (which has a huge number of definitions and manifestations).

Curiously, there has developed a strong undercurrent of traditionalism with, what I perceive to be, the pendulum swinging back to what people today consider to be traditional values and culture (although it can be successfully argued that these are merely current notions of those values and culture and not authentic reconstructions of them). I see this undercurrent manifested in religion (not merely Christianity), education, architecture, art, music, literature, etc., etc.
 
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Jonaitis

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I tend to take a cyclical view in general of cultural history rather than a progressive view. At the end of the nineteenth century progressivism came to the fore in culture which developed into Modernism in all of its various manifestations. By the end of the twentieth century Modernism had pretty much run its course, both intellectually and culturally and progressivists decided that we had entered into Post-Modernism (which has a huge number of definitions and manifestations).

Curiously, there has developed a strong undercurrent of traditionalism with, what I perceive to be, the pendulum swinging back to what people today consider to be traditional values and culture (although it can be successfully argued that these are merely current notions of those values and culture and not authentic reconstructions of them). I see this undercurrent manifested in religion (not merely Christianity), education, architecture, art, music, literature, etc., etc.
I think it was necessary for us to progress toward postmodernism, because traditionalism, though has good intentions and aims, prevented society from exploring outside of it. If we cannot question fundamental things, do we even know them? What if it isn't always practical? What if there are better ideas that fit with the times that we are living in? Or should we believe in something completely because our parents and grandparents taught us this is the right way? I am not bashing traditionalism, I strongly support it, but postermodernism is the very ingredient that traditionalism lacks. We are seeing the pendulum swing the opposite of its extreme. If you get what I mean, then you understand that we need balance.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I think it was necessary for us to progress toward postmodernism, because traditionalism, though has good intentions and aims, prevented society from exploring outside of it. If we cannot question fundamental things, do we even know them? What if it isn't always practical? What if there are better ideas that fit with the times that we are living in? Or should we believe in something completely because our parents and grandparents taught us this is the right way? I am not bashing traditionalism, I strongly support it, but postermodernism is the very ingredient that traditionalism lacks. We are seeing the pendulum swing the opposite of its extreme. If you get what I mean, then you understand that we need balance.

One of the great difficulties is the definition of tradition. Culturally, tradition typically lags behind contemporary culture between fifty and one hundred years. Thus, I have observed that the calls for traditional Classical Christian education are not at all for education in the Classics as defined by the British public school system prior to Hitler's War, but for American-style education of the 1950's. Nor is it Christian in a narrow theological, denominational meaning, but simply a Judeo-Christian morality and ethical structure as experienced following the aforementioned war.

As a result, my cyclical view of history is not ironclad, but incorporates the concept of change over time in which a cultural pendulum swings from one extreme back to an earlier, more comforting set of cultural parameters.
 
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Jonaitis

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One of the great difficulties is the definition of tradition. Culturally, tradition typically lags behind contemporary culture between fifty and one hundred years. Thus, I have observed that the calls for traditional Classical Christian education are not at all for education in the Classics as defined by the British public school system prior to Hitler's War, but for American-style education of the 1950's. Nor is it Christian in a narrow theological, denominational meaning, but simply a Judeo-Christian morality and ethical structure as experienced following the aforementioned war.

As a result, my cyclical view of history is not ironclad, but incorporates the concept of change over time in which a cultural pendulum swings from one extreme back to an earlier, more comforting set of cultural parameters.
What you said is an example of society's conditioning on our private thoughts. Judeo-Christian morality was more narrowly understood three centuries prior, and if you haven't noticed, Christian ethics today don't measure up to the kind of standard those men had. The Sabbath was almost seen as an act of treason, if not more. Engaging a woman alone was inappropriate. Is it that they were greater than us in moral values, or were they simply overzealous in their moral framework that they took extreme measures that we now see as unnecessary to follow? Even traditionalism is a contemporary sub-culture that changes with the times. It may not follow the times, but it will adapt to its opposition of the times when they change, and I think we are seeing that within the race and sexuality issues in America. Now we have "conservative" taking a stand behind a party, with ideals that aren't reconciling or helpful in the discussion, but simply opposing anything the other party stands for. We have nationalist groups and so-called anti-fascist movements that exist for each other. If we can take a step back and see how conditioned we have been in our thinking and behavior by all these sub-cultures that we surround ourselves in, we may actually return to a golden age of progress and peace.

You say it is like a pendulum where it will "swing from one extreme to an earlier, more comforting set of cultural perimeters," but by whose definition? Some may say that we are living in a more comfortable set of cultural perimeters, and others think they were born in the wrong generation, but what if it isn't so black and white? Is it possible to adapt with the times without losing individuality? This is what I seek to better understand. I suppose some would say I speak like a metamodernist, but I envision that all opposites exist to contribute to the whole, not simply one side. Pragmatic idealism?
 
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QvQ

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I separate natural, environmental, socially conditioned mores from morality.
This is East of Eden. Man does have a "natural" nature.
There is an objective reality. Truth must reflect that reality. The Bible as understood by Calvin reflects basic underlying truths about reality, which according to Ecclesiastes are always the same.
Modern society has become unhinged from basic realities that ruled previous generations due to medical advances, the attempt to structure society by modifying and manipulating human nature which, without Christ, is merely infinitely more corruptible. The Wisdom of Man, the bane of the modern native.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I love it.
So true.

It reminds me of the Winston Churchill quote: "You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else."

That's sort of how we come to Calvinism.
Nobody "LIKES IT" ... it just turns out to be true, so we accept that is how God does things.
You have a great point, but maybe the fact it is called Calvinism is the only thing I don't like about it. I don't think there is ANYTHING about God that I don't like. Some of the things I go through, I may not enjoy, but the fact that it is God putting me through them, I like very much! Some of the facts, for example the thought of the ultimate condemnation of a loved one, I may not enjoy, but the absolute power of God's purity and his precise justice I absolutely LOVE.

Just one more thing that makes Calvinism/Reformed Theology so great, is realizing the complete helplessness of the creature, and by contrast, the absolute grace of God. This is all up to God; he's in charge. And all he does is good.
 
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