How to be Saved Without Christ

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Romans 5 is clear. The reason we die is because of sin. No sin means no death. I know that we all sin so this is somewhat of a moot point. Nonetheless, it is true that if someone didn't sin, they wouldn't die. That is precisely why Christ didn't stay in the grave.

If someone didn't sin, then they wouldn't need to become justified. The fact that someone has sinned and needs to be justified would mean that it would already be too late to keep the Law perfectly, so it was never given for that purpose.
 
Upvote 0

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The big question for me revolves around sins of omission. Sins of commission are those things you do that you shouldn't do. Sins of omission are those that you don't do that you should have done. How can you ever be sure that you have never committed a sin of omission?

Even this is not enough, because according to 1 Corinthians 13 doing "good" things without a motive of genuine love done not count with God. So doing good in order to win God's approval doesn't work - its the wrong motive.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Nonetheless, it is true that if someone didn't sin, they wouldn't die. That is precisely why Christ didn't stay in the grave.

All depends. Personally I don't think this is entirely correct. Others perhaps think it is.

Through Adam (not Eve) sin passed to all. Jesus, according to the virgin birth, did not have an earthly father through which the "sin gene" (if there is such a thing) was passed on. According to this interpretation, Jesus did not start with the intrinsic corruption of the male line. That he also did not commit sin (of either commission or omission) also meant that the evil one had no claim on him. He himself said that no one could take his life from him - and we read that on the cross he "gave up his spirit." Throughout his life, his trial and his death, he remained in control. He submitted to death, in order to break the power of death from the inside, so to speak (and to do a lot of other things for us). Death could not hold him, and had no claim on him. He had reached the fullness of what it meant to be a man in the image of God, as well as embodying the fullness of God. He was complete - it was not possible to say of him that he fell short of the glory of God, as it can of any and all of us regardless of age or 'self'-righteousness. We are "short of the glory of God" from birth and by nature because of our being sons and daughters of Adam.
 
Upvote 0

Blade

Veteran
Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,165
3,989
USA
✟629,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to typical Christian theology, it is possible to be saved, have eternal life, and enter paradise without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10).
All you have to do is never sin, not even one teeny weeny little sin, in your entire lifetime. Go for it! :amen:

One.. this is not written. Two.. a tad little problem.. we are born INTO sin. Its on you the day you were born. This is why Jesus looked and talked and said to some "you are of your father the devil". Now.. there is some truth to what you said. Jesus said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". There are people that never heard of Jesus. God is just.. and cant judge someone that has never heard of Jesus. Yet GOD DOES show them in His way..anyway..

So this "never sin".. does not work. its on you the day you were born
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
The big question for me revolves around sins of omission. Sins of commission are those things you do that you shouldn't do. Sins of omission are those that you don't do that you should have done. How can you ever be sure that you have never committed a sin of omission?

Even this is not enough, because according to 1 Corinthians 13 doing "good" things without a motive of genuine love done not count with God. So doing good in order to win God's approval doesn't work - its the wrong motive.

Sin offerings were only for unintentional sins, so we can still repent for sinning unintentionally. God has always disdained it when His people outwardly obeyed Him while their hearts were far from Him, so God has always been primarily concerned with where our heart is, and obedience to Him has always been about growing in a relationship with Him based on faith and love, and has never been about our outward performance. However, the idea that it is a bad motive to seek God's approval is completely false.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to typical Christian theology, it is possible to be saved, have eternal life, and enter paradise without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10).
All you have to do is never sin, not even one teeny weeny little sin, in your entire lifetime. Go for it! :amen:

No. That is false. Even if a person never sins, they would still be condemned by Adam's sin (Whereby they would need a Savior). Babies who die are saved by Christ's sacrifice; But if a person grows up, they need to accept Jesus as their Savior. For no man can deny the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. For he that denies the Son does not have the Father (1 John 2:23). There is no salvation in another other name but Jesus Christ.

Also, while we are saved by God's grace initially and ultimately, that does not mean we are not also saved by holiness and works, too. For if holiness and works did not play a part in our salvation in any way, that means we can be ax murdering rapists and be saved just because we have a belief on Jesus. But it doesn't work like that. If a person accepts Jesus as their Savior, then the good fruit of the Lord Jesus Christ will be evident in their life. In other words, we are saved by Jesus. He saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Romans 5 is clear. The reason we die is because of sin. No sin means no death. I know that we all sin so this is somewhat of a moot point. Nonetheless, it is true that if someone didn't sin, they wouldn't die. That is precisely why Christ didn't stay in the grave.

1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the Law.
Believing on Jesus is a commandment (Law) (1 John 3:23).
Repentance is a commandment (Acts of the Apostles 17:30).
Believing in the gospel is a command (Mark 1:15).
Not murdering is a command. If one hates their brother they are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).
Not lusting after a woman is a command and the consequences for doing so is being cast bodily in hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).

The law Paul speaks of is the Old Law given to Israel and not God's Eternal Moral Laws (like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.). However, the ceremonial laws like the animal sacrifices, the dietary laws, the Sabbath, circumcision is what Paul condemned for a believer if they seeked to do such things so as to be saved (or continue in salvation). Paul says in Romans 3:1, what profit is there in circumcision? In Galatians 5:24, Paul says, if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. So Paul condemned going back to the old ceremonial laws of the Old Testament; Paul did not condemn people for not murdering, or not stealing, etc. That would be silly.

So saying, "we all sin" is not correct. Not all Christians live like heathens or unbelievers.

Philippians 2:15 says,
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world."
 
Upvote 0

disciple1

Newbie
Aug 1, 2012
2,168
546
✟61,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to typical Christian theology, it is possible to be saved, have eternal life, and enter paradise without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10).
All you have to do is never sin, not even one teeny weeny little sin, in your entire lifetime. Go for it! :amen:
All you have to do is never sin
It's not possible to not sin, but if you do try Christ didn't die for you.
1 John chapter 2 verse 2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

So Jesus died for everyone's sins.

Now all we need to do is love.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,362
7,742
Canada
✟721,286.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
having a nature that is predisposed to sin is not sin.
However, Matthew 5:28 and 1 John 3:15. Try not thinking or reacting to reality .. at all .. not going to happen.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

godhasmynumber

Active Member
May 25, 2017
39
28
66
proston
✟12,765.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to typical Christian theology, it is possible to be saved, have eternal life, and enter paradise without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10).
All you have to do is never sin, not even one teeny weeny little sin, in your entire lifetime. Go for it! :amen:
the "sin" problem was taken care of at the cross for one and all of humanity, past /present and future. no one will ever be cast in to hell because of "their sin"!!Jesus Christs blood was and still is "eternal" wiping "all sin" once and for all!!

people will only be cast in to hell for "the rejection" of Jesus Christ as it will give God that "legal right" at judgement because that is the way he set it all up before "humanity" was even placed upon this dieing world. no Jesus Christ in ones "heart"? then no eternal life in heaven its that simple.

God calls his children "back to himself" via his son Jesus Christ and does "the work" inside their heart by the "born again" process!!
 
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
Adam was body, soul, AND spirit. He lost the spirit after the fall. Every animal has a soul which is nothing more than breath life. At some point all animals, including humans, loose their soul, stop breathing, and die. The new birth makes spirit available once again and that is where eternal life comes from. The word "saved" means "to be made whole" which is what the gift of holy spirit makes us. Spirit also is what gave Adam free access to God. He lost that access when he lost the spirit. Christians get that access back.
After the fall, Adam still had a human spirit, it was just cut off from God.

The holy angels are spirit beings who are in union with God.
The fallen angels are also spirit beings, but completely cut off from God. That is the nature of fallen man, except we also have a fleshly body.
 
Upvote 0

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
However, the idea that it is a bad motive to seek God's approval is completely false.

It is quite possible you misunderstood me, or rather that I wasn't clear enough about I meant. To be a living sacrifice, pleasing God is one thing. To think that I can do (or not do in some cases) things (good works) to gain entrance to God's presence, in the sense of obligating him to honour my good work by "opening the door" is something else. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. I please God because I love him, I want to please him, and because he is worthy - NOT with the intent that my pleasing him is the reason he will approve of me and save me. He only approves of "me" because I am hidden in his Son, Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
After the fall, Adam still had a human spirit, it was just cut off from God.

Or in Paul's words (and even Jesus') we were spiritually dead. Our spirit was dead - cut off from the source of its life. That's why we need to be "born again."
 
Upvote 0

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,700.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to typical Christian theology, it is possible to be saved, have eternal life, and enter paradise without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10).
All you have to do is never sin, not even one teeny weeny little sin, in your entire lifetime. Go for it! :amen:
Yes, Plan A - one would have to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) to be saved on their own. Good luck with that! :rolleyes:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

*So much for that! On to Plan B.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. :oldthumbsup:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Danthemailman

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2017
3,664
2,799
Midwest
✟301,700.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
one who would deny Jesus as Lord and deny the resurrection has sinned..

so yeah that doesn't work.
Genuine believers/Christians do not deny Jesus as Lord or the resurrection (1 Corinthians 12:3; Romans 10:9,10).
 
Upvote 0

rrobsr

Active Member
Jan 9, 2017
172
88
73
Julian, CA
Visit site
✟26,828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So saying, "we all sin" is not correct. Not all Christians live like heathens or unbelievers.

Interesting comment. I'm not saying you are wrong, but how do you explain:

Rom 7:14-25,

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rrobsr

Active Member
Jan 9, 2017
172
88
73
Julian, CA
Visit site
✟26,828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I
Yes, Plan A - one would have to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) to be saved on their own. Good luck with that! :rolleyes:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

*So much for that! On to Plan B.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. :oldthumbsup:
I'll go with plan B anytime! Like I said somewhere, I was really kidding with the original post. Of course we need Christ to be saved. But if someone doesn't believe that and they still want to be in paradise, then their only option is to live a sinless life. Clearly not possible.
 
Upvote 0