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Featured How to be Saved Without Christ

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by rrobsr, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. rrobsr

    rrobsr Member

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    God is love...
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  2. MyGivenNameIsKeith

    MyGivenNameIsKeith Member

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    It isn't possible to be saved without Christ. No man comes to the Father except through him. Plus all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
     
  3. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    I think that was his point.
     
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  4. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

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    I think so too. But it was wrong because we are born sinners. The sin nature was passed down through Adam. All anyone as to DO is be born to become a sinner because of the inherited sin nature. Lord Jesus' work on the cross is the only thing that can give us a new nature of His righteousness.
     
  5. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Since you do not have a HOLY nature from birth, you will sin and die in your sins unless you get a new nature, become a new creation in Christ created by God according to righteousness and holiness. Then you will have a holy nature in fellowship with God and also the same eternal life they have.

    These verses teach the truth that salvation is eternal life for those born of God do not sin. But understand John is talking about the new creation, the new spirit God forms within you, the born again spirit, not the flesh, not the old, but the new man. It is the spirit that gets saved, not the flesh. The spirit is redeemed first, then the flesh later when we get raised in the Resurrection. but it will be a glorious body, not the body we have now, that one is doomed and essentially dead from the eternal POV.

    1 John 3:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)
    8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    This current body we inhabit is mortal, dead because of SIN. But God who lives in us gives it life to endure til it's time has come to pass on.

    9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  6. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    I agree. Sin only exists in action or thought, but we are born with a corrupt nature. Even it were possible to never sin in our thought or by our actions, we still have inherited a corrupt nature from Adam.
     
  7. Winken

    Winken Jonah !!! Supporter

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    If only we could get a handle on this........seems we can't though. How many denominations are there? Just asking......
     
  8. longwait

    longwait Active Member

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    All our righteous acts are like filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
     
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  9. mercyfollowsme

    mercyfollowsme Newbie

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    wrong, babies do it all the time. no aborted foetus has prayed the sinners prayer but they are all in heaven.
     
  10. mercyfollowsme

    mercyfollowsme Newbie

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    having a nature that is predisposed to sin is not sin.
     
  11. rrobsr

    rrobsr Member

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    I was half kidding with the original post. Of course every human is prone to sin because of our nature. Dogs bark, cats meow, cows moo, and humans sin. On the other hand, it is absolutely true that if (a big impossible if, I realize) someone did live a complete life without ever sinning, they would be equal to a born again believer in the end.

    Also there are all the people in the OT who could not be born again because it wasn't available until Christ died and rose from the dead, the day of Pentecost to be specific. They will be judged at the end of the 1,000 year reign in Revelations. God will judge them according to their hearts and not necessarily according to their actions. For example, take King David. He had a man murdered so he could have his wife (2 Sam 11). That's not good of course, but I can't imagine he won't be in the resurrection of the just and make it into the new heavens and new earth. Man judges by appearance, but God judges by the heart (1 Sam 16:7, et. al.).

    One of the major the things about the new birth is that we have already been judged and found righteous (Rom 3:22). We've been justified (Rom 3:24), not by our actions or even by our heart, but by Jesus Christ. We are lucky to live in a time when that is available, in this age of grace. All we have to do is confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10). That wasn't available in the OT and it won't be available once the tribulations begins. Those folks have to stand for judgment in the end and their fate won't be certain until then. We've already been saved from the wrath to come (Rom 5:0).
     
  12. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    Great truth to remember; and this is why Christ alone can save; we can bring nothing, as Romans 3 teaches. :)
     
  13. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in the Bible that says that perfectly refraining from sin is a way to become saved, but rather the one and only way that there has ever been to become saved is by grace through faith.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  14. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    That verse was not God speaking, but rather it was the people complaining about how they thought God was perceiving their actions. God does not command us to do good works all throughout the Bible and then view our actions with contempt when we seek to obey Him, but rather the reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).
     
  15. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    What is the difference between Adam before the fall and his descendents?
     
  16. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    It is impossible to not sin when born into this sinful world.
    For all have sinned. You can not not sin. You can will not to sin, but you will sin regardless, and if you think you are sinless, then your deceived, you are ignorant of your sin.

    Romans 3
    9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

    10 As it is written:

    “There is none righteous, no, not one;
    11 There is none who understands;
    There is none who seeks after God.
    12 They have all turned aside;
    They have together become unprofitable;
    There is none who does good, no, not one.”


    And, sin has a purpose with God and you.

    Romans 7
    13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

    21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

    So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
     
  17. mercyfollowsme

    mercyfollowsme Newbie

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    Only Jesus saves, not all need saving because they have no accountable sin
     
  18. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

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    Adam was created sinless with the sinless nature of our Father. He knew no sin.
    Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    After Adam fell, his nature changed and he became mortal (corrupt) and everyone born after he became corrupt (descendants) inherited his mortal (corrupt) nature.
     
  19. rrobsr

    rrobsr Member

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    Adam was body, soul, AND spirit. He lost the spirit after the fall. Every animal has a soul which is nothing more than breath life. At some point all animals, including humans, loose their soul, stop breathing, and die. The new birth makes spirit available once again and that is where eternal life comes from. The word "saved" means "to be made whole" which is what the gift of holy spirit makes us. Spirit also is what gave Adam free access to God. He lost that access when he lost the spirit. Christians get that access back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  20. rrobsr

    rrobsr Member

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    Romans 5 is clear. The reason we die is because of sin. No sin means no death. I know that we all sin so this is somewhat of a moot point. Nonetheless, it is true that if someone didn't sin, they wouldn't die. That is precisely why Christ didn't stay in the grave.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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