How the rapture theology may allow Christians an excuse....

[mkgal1]

I hope you all can bear with me.....I'm sort of in the middle of processing something, so I will probably be rambling a bit.

The other day I was reading this horrific exchange (here). It was Paidiske's response in post #277 that really caused a light-bulb moment for me. She mentioned "already-inaugurated eschatology"....which, ironically, is something that I only discovered a few weeks ago and am blown away with the difference that framework makes in my comprehension of Scripture. If many of you have never heard of it, we may first need to begin there.

But...just to finish my thought: see how Alex was putting a Christian's transformation off in the future? I've been seeing a lot of that recently ("we won't be changed until Christ returns" and sentiments like that). In the last six years or so, I've been scratching my head at how so many Christians have rejected compassion and caring for others with dignity and I wondered what it stemmed from. I think this is a large part of it.....the belief of a rapture, where the "good and deserving" are "plucked out" and the other "sinful" ones are left behind. I think that is the root of that sense of superiority and rigid legalism. Maybe I'm wrong.....but it seems to me there's a correlation.

ETA: the other part of rapture theology is that almost everything related to the Kingdom of God is off in the future (including, apparently according to them, any transformation of character).

Does any of that make sense...LOL

 

[HereIStand]

I've heard that argued, and I could see that danger. There is a danger also in emphasizing social and environmental missions over evangelism.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm going to be a bit rambly, too, because that same point in the exchange struck me, too, and I'm also still processing it. The idea of already-inaugurated eschatology is one I encountered longer ago, to the point that I take it for granted, I think. So the contrasting idea that Christ's atoning work will make no transforming difference in our day-to-day lives until the Second Coming took me aback.

I don't know if it stems from the doctrine of the Rapture, or just from the idea that the atonement is about heaven/hell and not particularly about this present life.

[ Going off to think some more ]

 

[mkgal1]

I don't know if it stems from the doctrine of the Rapture, or just from the idea that the atonement is about heaven/hell and not particularly about this present life.

Hmmmm....that's a good point. Right at this point, I'm thinking the two go together for most people (Rapture theology and atonement being merely about heaven/hell and not particularly about this present life). A foundation of this ideology of the Rapture/transformation being reserved for when Christ returns does seem to be tied to the Substitionary Atonement theory, though....don't you think?

I'm not really sure *what* people believe anymore, though. Each day it seems I find another belief that a lot of people here hold to (that I'd never believed as a Christian...or even heard spoken of or written about).

***And PloverWing....your post didn't strike me as rambly AT ALL

 

[disciple Clint]

If I am following what you are saying it would be related to the Kingdom of God and what you believe that it is and when it started. I would suggest that Jesus began the Kingdom of God with His ministry and it is continued by the church and exists here and now. This would be consistent with the Olivet Discourse. I think that anyone considering the Secret Rapture should do some serious research about it and John Nelson Darby. Then go and read the Scripture. There is little if any justification for a belief in this concept regardless of how popular it may be. Blessings

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

https://www.theopedia.com/inaugurated-eschatology

 

[JackRT]

.....the belief of a rapture, where the "good and deserving" are "plucked out" and the other "sinful" ones are left behind. I think that is the root of that sense of superiority and rigid legalism.

Even though "rapture theology" was only invented less than 200 years ago the attitude of superiority and rigid legalism has been Christian since the early days.

 

[Paidiske]

This is a really interesting exchange, and I'll try to be back later to say something sensible (in a rush just now). But thank you for starting the thread, because I think it's taken an offhand comment and pointed out that it could actually be quite a significant thing in the broader discussion.

 

[PloverWing]

A foundation of this ideology of the Rapture/transformation being reserved for when Christ returns does seem to be tied to the Substitionary Atonement theory, though....don't you think?

An interesting idea. Possibly someone who favors the Substitutionary Atonement theory can join the discussion and give their insights on this.

I tend to think of the Atonement in terms of the transforming power of the Incarnation: "He became what we are in order to enable us to become what He is." Thus, for me, the forgiveness of the penalty of sin is very important, but it's only one piece of the Atonement, which also includes a transformation of our lives that begins here and now.

Substitutionary Atonement focuses more on a legal transaction that removes the penalty of sin. This could easily draw one's focus toward heaven/hell in the afterlife, with this present life being dismissed as hopelessly sinful, so why bother -- which is some of what I'm hearing from AlexDTX in the other discussion. However, I think that many people who believe in Substitutionary Atonement also believe in sanctification as a work of the Holy Spirit that begins in this life; the concept of sanctification is at least consistent with the idea of Substitutionary Atonement. So I don't know why some Christians seem to give up on this present life.

***And PloverWing....your post didn't strike me as rambly AT ALL

Thanks!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This gives a biblical outline to that timeframe I would think.

Typology Of The Resurrection Of Christ | Christian Forums

Once this sheaf had been accepted by the Lord, the nation could be sustained by the new grain.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

These verses would be the common one used to describe the kingdom now and future. Also Nicodemus dialog where kingdom powers are needed to understand the spiritual, plus the fact that with His breath (life to the new creation) came the power of understanding before Pentecost.

Luke 11
17 But *he*, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation: and a house set against a house falls;
18 and if also Satan is divided against himself, how shall his kingdom subsist? because ye say that I cast out demons by Beelzebub.
19 But if *I* by Beelzebub cast out demons, your sons—by whom do they cast [them] out? For this reason *they* shall be your judges.
20 But if by the finger of God I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God is come upon you.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I'm not understanding how rapture theory works into that? Can someone explain?

 

[Dave-W]

Even though "rapture theology" was only invented less than 200 years ago the attitude of superiority and rigid legalism has been Christian since the early days.

Unfortunately very true.

 

[PloverWing]

I'm not understanding how rapture theory works into that? Can someone explain?

One version of the Rapture theory sees the world as getting worse and worse until Jesus comes back and fixes everything. (Variation: Things get worse and worse until the Rapture, when Christians completely escape everything, and then there's a Tribulation period where things get really bad, and then Jesus comes back and fixes everything.)

This view of the world can encourage one not to bother trying to fix anything in the world, because nothing will improve until the Rapture and/or Second Coming. That's what I was hearing in mkgal1's post, as she critiqued AlexDTX's words in the original thread. I've heard reasoning like this applied to environmentalism (we don't have to take care of the earth, because we're going to be Raptured out of it anyway) and to political involvement (political systems will be corrupt until Jesus comes, so there's no point trying to influence the government toward the good). I hadn't heard it applied to feminism before.

By contrast, I think some of the social reformers of the 19th and 20th century were Postmillennial, seeing their actions as helping to bring in the Millennium here and now on earth. I don't think I agree that Postmillennialism is actually theologically correct, but it is interesting to see how one's view of the End Times can influence what one does in the present time.

 

[Dave-W]

The rapture theory I was raised with required sanctification on this side of the event, and if you got "left behind," there was no hope. Having any sin in your life was sufficient to make you lose your place and miss out.

And once the Rapture happens, the Holy Spirit (the restrainer 2 Thes 2.7) is also removed so the antichrist can come forward. That means no one can be saved from that point on.

Remember the Larry Norman song "I Wish We'd All Been Ready?"

There's no time to change your mind.
How could you have been so blind?
The Father spoke, the demons dined
The Son has come and you've been left behind
You've been left behind
You've been left behind
You've been left behind
You've been left behind​

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

One version of the Rapture theory sees the world as getting worse and worse until Jesus comes back and fixes everything. (Variation: Things get worse and worse until the Rapture, when Christians completely escape everything, and then there's a Tribulation period where things get really bad, and then Jesus comes back and fixes everything.)

This view of the world can encourage one not to bother trying to fix anything in the world, because nothing will improve until the Rapture and/or Second Coming. That's what I was hearing in mkgal1's post, as she critiqued AlexDTX's words in the original thread. I've heard reasoning like this applied to environmentalism (we don't have to take care of the earth, because we're going to be Raptured out of it anyway) and to political involvement (political systems will be corrupt until Jesus comes, so there's no point trying to influence the government toward the good). I hadn't heard it applied to feminism before.

By contrast, I think some of the social reformers of the 19th and 20th century were Postmillennial, seeing their actions as helping to bring in the Millennium here and now on earth. I don't think I agree that Postmillennialism is actually theologically correct, but it is interesting to see how one's view of the End Times can influence what one does in the present time.

What I have heard others AlexDTX, RD Kirk and others saying is that law is in effect for women only and not men because Christ's kingdom has not yet been inaugurated so Judaism basically is still in effect rather than Christianity when it gets right down to it. Dave-W said the same thing in application to the Jews still being under law whether Messianic or not. I remember telling him that is the only way, if true, that Gentile women would still be under law. Not that I believe that, Judaism is in effect in any area of Christianity other than a guidance for what not to do.

 

[PloverWing]

Remember the Larry Norman song "I Wish We'd All Been Ready?"

I do indeed remember that song! I've got it on an ancient cassette tape here in the house somewhere, from my college days.

The variant of the Rapture theory that I grew up with just required that you be Christian -- that you'd accepted Jesus as your Savior -- so a virtuous life wasn't necessary in order to be Raptured. I think there was also the possibility that non-Raptured people would look at the aftermath of the Rapture, say "Darn, I guess those Christians were right after all", and get saved in large numbers.

Your version is scarier, but it might motivate people toward eliminating sin from their lives.

 

[Micah888]

ETA: the other part of rapture theology is that almost everything related to the Kingdom of God is off in the future...

Don't you believe that there will be a literal Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory"? And is that not a future event? So why do you blame "rapture theology" when the Bible clearly presents the Second Coming and the events to follow?

...(including, apparently according to them, any transformation of character).

Now this is total nonsense since no Christian who believes in a Rapture promotes the idea that in the meantime Christians can live as they please and that they are not to be sanctified as revealed in the Word.

The Preterists have been falsely claiming that the Second Coming occurred in 70 AD. Well if that were really true then we would all be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth and there would be ABSOLUTELY NO SIN AND EVIL IN THIS WORLD.

The other thing to note is that Amillenialists have created a lot of propaganda against the Pre -Tribulation Rapture and the literal Millennium because their Amillenialism has been exposed as a false teaching.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Don't you believe that there will be a literal Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory"? And is that not a future event? So why do you blame "rapture theology" when the Bible clearly presents the Second Coming and the events to follow?

Now this is total nonsense since no Christian who believes in a Rapture promotes the idea that in the meantime Christians can live as they please and that they are not to be sanctified as revealed in the Word.

The Preterists have been falsely claiming that the Second Coming occurred in 70 AD. Well if that were really true then we would all be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth and there would be ABSOLUTELY NO SIN AND EVIL IN THIS WORLD.

The other thing to note is that Amillenialists have created a lot of propaganda against the Pre -Tribulation Rapture and the literal Millennium because their Amillenialism has been exposed as a false teaching.

What do you think sanctification means if not setting ONESELF apart to God. Commitment. Your points are moot.

 

[mkgal1]

This view of the world can encourage one not to bother trying to fix anything in the world, because nothing will improve until the Rapture and/or Second Coming. That's what I was hearing in mkgal1's post, as she critiqued AlexDTX's words in the original thread. I've heard reasoning like this applied to environmentalism (we don't have to take care of the earth, because we're going to be Raptured out of it anyway) and to political involvement (political systems will be corrupt until Jesus comes, so there's no point trying to influence the government toward the good). I hadn't heard it applied to feminism before.

Thank you so much, PloverWing, for unraveling and articulating - so well- my rambling. Yes! That's just it.