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How the 20th century religion of anti-racism has neutered Evangelism

lifepsyop

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In a nutshell...

Mainstream Christian evangelism used to confront peoples' sinful behavior and foster a general environment of repentance and intolerance towards sin. These were sins based on the moral framework of the Bible, e.g. divorce, sexual indecency, homosexuality, neglect of one's children or parents, drunkenness, and other vices of excess. In these environments, the average unbeliever was always having to face up to a world of good and evil that flows from the pages of the New Testament. The average person was daily thrust into this ordered world based on a restraint from sin, and pre-1950's societies generally reflected this order.

Post-1950's a new religion syncretized with Christianity and gradually eclipsed it towards the end of the century. This was the religion of "anti-racism", and has completely reframed all of morality around the question of whether one is a racist or not. The only real "sin" in the world is a rejection of multiculturalism.

As a result, actual sinful behavior has been allowed to flourish in society. You can celebrate all sorts of indecency and degeneracy but you are basically a "good" person just as long as you are not a "racist". That is the new language of the 20th century religion, that Christian churches have more or less adopted.

The ultimate 'telos' or purpose of society is no longer a Christian society restrained from sin, but instead the telos is now a multicultural "open society". Christianity itself, and the particularism of Jesus Christ, does not fit very well with this new worldview. The only good Christian is one who is accepting of all other faiths and belief systems.

The only real evil in the world are people with ethnic preferences, or people who have doubts about the gospel of multiculturalism. Those are the only real heretics. Classical forms of sin and degeneracy are now openly celebrated as freedom and liberty.

The Devil is not some ancient foe of humanity, always stalking us and tempting us away from God. The Devil was actually Hitler and we defeated him. We're good.

This has diluted the reality of the Gospel. As a society we have indoctrinated people into thinking that the only real evil in the world is anything resembling an ethnic preference, anything that falls short of the ideal of total multiculturalism.

For almost 2000 years, the church did not think this way at all. But in the 20th century, Christians completely reframed all morality around this "open-society" creed.

As a result, the only worthwhile things in the Gospel are cherry-picked verses where Jesus or the apostles talked about being charitable towards outsiders. But everything else is basically thrown in the dustbin.

The church generally seems to reflect this new morality of 20th century religion. That our streets are covered in flags celebrating homosexuality is just not a big deal at all. (something any pre-1960's Christian would have found horrifying) ... but if there was a whiff of "racism" happening somewhere, the church hierarchy would be mobilized against it just like the old church used to go after heretics.

The 20th century is a new religious message for the whole world, and the NT Gospel doesn't have a very important place in it. One doesn't become pure by surrendering to Jesus. One becomes pure by spiritually integrating themselves with all other ethnicities, cultures, and religions of the world and by renouncing any feelings of ethnocentrism, by fully embracing the Open Society.

That being said, Thank God this religion of the 20th century is dying fast! Hallelujah!
 

SynergyFOB

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In a nutshell...

Mainstream Christian evangelism used to confront peoples' sinful behavior and foster a general environment of repentance and intolerance towards sin. These were sins based on the moral framework of the Bible, e.g. divorce, sexual indecency, homosexuality, neglect of one's children or parents, drunkenness, and other vices of excess. In these environments, the average unbeliever was always having to face up to a world of good and evil that flows from the pages of the New Testament. The average person was daily thrust into this ordered world based on a restraint from sin, and pre-1950's societies generally reflected this order.

Post-1950's a new religion syncretized with Christianity and gradually eclipsed it towards the end of the century. This was the religion of "anti-racism", and has completely reframed all of morality around the question of whether one is a racist or not. The only real "sin" in the world is a rejection of multiculturalism.

As a result, actual sinful behavior has been allowed to flourish in society. You can celebrate all sorts of indecency and degeneracy but you are basically a "good" person just as long as you are not a "racist". That is the new language of the 20th century religion, that Christian churches have more or less adopted.

The ultimate 'telos' or purpose of society is no longer a Christian society restrained from sin, but instead the telos is now a multicultural "open society". Christianity itself, and the particularism of Jesus Christ, does not fit very well with this new worldview. The only good Christian is one who is accepting of all other faiths and belief systems.

The only real evil in the world are people with ethnic preferences, or people who have doubts about the gospel of multiculturalism. Those are the only real heretics. Classical forms of sin and degeneracy are now openly celebrated as freedom and liberty.

The Devil is not some ancient foe of humanity, always stalking us and tempting us away from God. The Devil was actually Hitler and we defeated him. We're good.

This has diluted the reality of the Gospel. As a society we have indoctrinated people into thinking that the only real evil in the world is anything resembling an ethnic preference, anything that falls short of the ideal of total multiculturalism.

For almost 2000 years, the church did not think this way at all. But in the 20th century, Christians completely reframed all morality around this "open-society" creed.

As a result, the only worthwhile things in the Gospel are cherry-picked verses where Jesus or the apostles talked about being charitable towards outsiders. But everything else is basically thrown in the dustbin.

The church generally seems to reflect this new morality of 20th century religion. That our streets are covered in flags celebrating homosexuality is just not a big deal at all. (something any pre-1960's Christian would have found horrifying) ... but if there was a whiff of "racism" happening somewhere, the church hierarchy would be mobilized against it just like the old church used to go after heretics.

The 20th century is a new religious message for the whole world, and the NT Gospel doesn't have a very important place in it. One doesn't become pure by surrendering to Jesus. One becomes pure by spiritually integrating themselves with all other ethnicities, cultures, and religions of the world and by renouncing any feelings of ethnocentrism, by fully embracing the Open Society.

That being said, Thank God this religion of the 20th century is dying fast! Hallelujah!
I feel you may be missing something or generalizing. If you really think about what has happened within the church, it is not about confrontational evangelism. It's not about the preaching against sin. What has happened is the church no longer lives the gospel. Lifestyle evangelism is dead (2 Timothy 3). The Church has become a seplucher: fancy and shiny on the outside but dead on the inside. Postmodern preaching tries to make the Bible culturally relevant instead of making or culture and church biblically relevant. "Pastors", not even a biblical office, tip-toe through the withers. I have been to more board run churches than I care to admit. Google pastoral positions and look at what churches list as requirements for a pastor. Google a pastors schedule and then search the scriptures for what God requires of a "pastor". The Church IS NOT a business. It is a ministry. More specifically, it is something spiritual, not earthly.
Lastly, racism is divisive and from Satan. We are all image bearers and we are all called by God to love obe another. Denominationalism is just as wicked and divisive.
The ONLY thing that will correct the sinking ship is for God's people to return to daily time in HIS Word. That is the source of faith. We are NIT saved by our faith and we cannot live by our faith. (Ephesians 2:8, Galatians 5:22, Romans 10:17 and Galatians 2:20 - of Christ not in Christ).
 
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d taylor

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What has harmed evangelism is the teaching of other gospels and not the gospel. That is focused on Jesus and that only belief in Jesus. is the only way a person can receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God.
 
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1Tonne

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What has harmed evangelism is the teaching of other gospels and not the gospel. That is focused on Jesus and that only belief in Jesus. is the only way a person can receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God.
Agreed. Believe and repent.
 
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1Tonne

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Your Gospel is a false Gospel. That is why I am pulling you up on it, and I will continue.
You believe that all we have to do is simply believe and you can happily continue in the most abhorrent sins, and you can even love those sins, and you are still saved. This is false. Belief without change is no belief at all. You need to be born again.
Beliefs shape the way we act. So, if we truly believe that Jesus died a terrible death on the cross because of our sinning, then we would not want to continue in this. Hence, faith without action is dead. It is no faith at all.
James 2:14 "What use is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" The answer to this is "no".

We are saved by grace through faith, and those who believe will have actions that go with this faith. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them"
Faith without action (works) is dead. It is no faith at all.
James 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
 
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lifepsyop

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I feel you may be missing something or generalizing. If you really think about what has happened within the church, it is not about confrontational evangelism. It's not about the preaching against sin. What has happened is the church no longer lives the gospel. Lifestyle evangelism is dead (2 Timothy 3). The Church has become a seplucher: fancy and shiny on the outside but dead on the inside. Postmodern preaching tries to make the Bible culturally relevant instead of making or culture and church biblically relevant.

I agree, but it seems a major factor in the church falling away was that they had a new fake moral framework to hide behind. As long as pastors were helping to promote multiculturalism and "end racism" under new modern 'saints' like MLK, they were getting pats on the back from secular institutions, and their industry was growing ("Big Eva"), they were given a seat at all the big tables...

The deal seems to be something like this..

In the case of all sinful behavior in society generally = the response was "Oh gee the world is a fallen place, that's why we need to change hearts and minds one individual at a time by spreading the Gospel!"

In the case of any instance of the "sins" of post 1950's secular consensus, i.e. accusation of someone being "racist", ethnocentric, anti-immigration, etc. = then the response was mobilization of entire church hierarchy to excommunicate or otherwise banish the offender/heretic.

This resistance to multiculturalism was the new scapegoat the church hid behind, while all classical sinful behavior, like divorce or homosexuality was allowed to flourish unchallenged.

Also, most importantly, this is the time when women began to exert their rule over men. And the church became feminized along with the rest of society.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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In a nutshell...

Mainstream Christian evangelism used to confront peoples' sinful behavior and foster a general environment of repentance and intolerance towards sin. These were sins based on the moral framework of the Bible, e.g. divorce, sexual indecency, homosexuality, neglect of one's children or parents, drunkenness, and other vices of excess. In these environments, the average unbeliever was always having to face up to a world of good and evil that flows from the pages of the New Testament. The average person was daily thrust into this ordered world based on a restraint from sin, and pre-1950's societies generally reflected this order.

Post-1950's a new religion syncretized with Christianity and gradually eclipsed it towards the end of the century. This was the religion of "anti-racism", and has completely reframed all of morality around the question of whether one is a racist or not. The only real "sin" in the world is a rejection of multiculturalism.

As a result, actual sinful behavior has been allowed to flourish in society. You can celebrate all sorts of indecency and degeneracy but you are basically a "good" person just as long as you are not a "racist". That is the new language of the 20th century religion, that Christian churches have more or less adopted.

The ultimate 'telos' or purpose of society is no longer a Christian society restrained from sin, but instead the telos is now a multicultural "open society". Christianity itself, and the particularism of Jesus Christ, does not fit very well with this new worldview. The only good Christian is one who is accepting of all other faiths and belief systems.

The only real evil in the world are people with ethnic preferences, or people who have doubts about the gospel of multiculturalism. Those are the only real heretics. Classical forms of sin and degeneracy are now openly celebrated as freedom and liberty.

The Devil is not some ancient foe of humanity, always stalking us and tempting us away from God. The Devil was actually Hitler and we defeated him. We're good.

This has diluted the reality of the Gospel. As a society we have indoctrinated people into thinking that the only real evil in the world is anything resembling an ethnic preference, anything that falls short of the ideal of total multiculturalism.

For almost 2000 years, the church did not think this way at all. But in the 20th century, Christians completely reframed all morality around this "open-society" creed.

As a result, the only worthwhile things in the Gospel are cherry-picked verses where Jesus or the apostles talked about being charitable towards outsiders. But everything else is basically thrown in the dustbin.

The church generally seems to reflect this new morality of 20th century religion. That our streets are covered in flags celebrating homosexuality is just not a big deal at all. (something any pre-1960's Christian would have found horrifying) ... but if there was a whiff of "racism" happening somewhere, the church hierarchy would be mobilized against it just like the old church used to go after heretics.

The 20th century is a new religious message for the whole world, and the NT Gospel doesn't have a very important place in it. One doesn't become pure by surrendering to Jesus. One becomes pure by spiritually integrating themselves with all other ethnicities, cultures, and religions of the world and by renouncing any feelings of ethnocentrism, by fully embracing the Open Society.

That being said, Thank God this religion of the 20th century is dying fast! Hallelujah!

I'm not really sure how being anti-racist is an un-Christian trait. Can you explain to me how being racist is something a good Christian should advocate for? You're specified articulation is a bit opaque to me.
 
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lifepsyop

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I'm not really sure how being anti-racist is an un-Christian trait. Can you explain to me how being racist is something a good Christian should advocate for? You're specified articulation is a bit opaque to me.

Racism is only un-Christian if it falls into the traditional sin of actively hating someone. If you hate someone because they are of a different race, then this is obviously un-Christian. Actually, focusing so much of the racial aspect just covers up the reality of what the sin actually is. Hating someone is just as bad regardless of whether they are in or out of your ethnic group. (The post-1950's secular order made the racial aspect a special super-class of sin)

However, the term Racism has been more commonly used to mean anyone who doesn't support limitless mass-integration of all ethnicities and cultures. There is nothing even slightly Christian about socially engineering all ethnic groups together into a single atomized secular order.

Yet the mainstream church has taken this integration project up as their most holy mission over the last several decades.


Combatting atheism, feminism, divorce, homosexuality, p*rnography in society? Big yawn from mainstream Christian thought-leaders, as the fruits of the 21st century have clearly shown.

However, try saying something like "European people should have their own homeland." Uh-oh! All the Christian thought-leaders will mobilize to explain how such hatred can have no place in society and how the heretics must be driven out of public discourse.

That's the problem. You demonstrate your religion by what you are most offended by and what you have zero tolerance of.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Racism is only un-Christian if it falls into the traditional sin of actively hating someone. If you hate someone because they are of a different race, then this is obviously un-Christian. Actually, focusing so much of the racial aspect just covers up the reality of what the sin actually is. Hating someone is just as bad regardless of whether they are in or out of your ethnic group. (The post-1950's secular order made the racial aspect a special super-class of sin)
Well, there was that other sin of racial segregation in the U.S. (and elsewhere) which needed to be, and in some additional ways still needs to be, utterly dispensed with since neither Jesus nor Peter and Paul ever endorsed it. If anything, they preached against it.
However, the term Racism has been more commonly used to mean anyone who doesn't support limitless mass-integration of all ethnicities and cultures. There is nothing even slightly Christian about socially engineering all ethnic groups together into a single atomized secular order.
If anything, Jesus and His disciples all preached against segregation and racism, if not for the World at large, then at the very, very least for , and within, the Church.

Somehow, though, I thinks it's evident in history that Christians haven't done well with discerning the Lord's will with these issues even within the Church. I know we can do better, and I say this not merely or only because the world learned a gross lesson by being confronted with the Holocaust, but because we're to adjust our worldview and how we deem the significance of other fellow human beings.
Yet the mainstream church has taken this integration project up as their most holy mission over the last several decades.
If anything, I think it's a mixed bag of those who go overboard on both ends of the political spectrum.
Combatting atheism, feminism, divorce, homosexuality, p*rnography in society? Big yawn from mainstream Christian thought-leaders, as the fruits of the 21st century have clearly shown.
I combat all of those each and every day. There's no big yawn here on any of those things. Yet, I'm an advocate of anti-racism wherever and whenever racism may rear its ugly head.
However, try saying something like "European people should have their own homeland." Uh-oh! All the Christian thought-leaders will mobilize to explain how such hatred can have no place in society and how the heretics must be driven out of public discourse.
I think you're in need of a little recalibration of your personal Hermeneutics where dealing with Biblical Exegesis is of central concern.
That's the problem. You demonstrate your religion by what you are most offended by and what you have zero tolerance of.

I don't. I demonstrate "my religion" by advocating for widows and orphans and people of various ethnic groups, and by doing my best to remain unspotted by the World (which isn't easy and takes up some of my time...........................).
 
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lifepsyop

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Well, there was that other sin of segregation in the U.S. (and elsewhere) which needed to be, and in some ways still needs to be utterly dispensed with,

"segregation" isn't a sin.

The very existence of national borders is a form of segregation. Are borders a sin?

since neither Jesus or Peter and Paul ever endorsed it.

they certainly never endorsed homosexuality, and indeed explicitly rebuked it, yet gay pride flags line the streets of all major cities and towns in America.

Why aren't Christian leaders up in arms about this like they would be about "segregation" ? Don't you find that odd?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"segregation" isn't a sin.

The very existence of national borders is a form of segregation. Are borders a sin?
Racial segregation is very much a sin. And one doesn't have to read William Wilberforce or Alan Paton to realize this.

There's really no amount of very solid biblical exegesis that can get you out of having to eliminate racial segregation from your Christian Worldview. There is, however, that other often favored form of bible reading you can use: eisegesis.

However, I prefer the former approach rather than the latter.
they certainly never endorsed homosexuality, and indeed explicitly rebuked it, yet gay pride flags line the streets of all major cities and towns in America.
Yeah. I know that. And? What's my responsibility as a Christian to the LGBTQ+ crowd other than to say, "Y'know, guys, biblically speaking, I think sex is binary. But if you'll let me keep my job, I'd be more than happy to take you out for some lunch---my treat----and you can tell me how life is going and what your favorite movie is.................and I'll actually listen!"

Yeah, see. I DON'T have to tell them they're going to Hell because most of them have already heard that message and my job is to love them and encourage them to let go of the World and Let Jesus Help.

Your view, however, wants me to instead take a large political carving knife and start slicing away all of the bureaucratic red tape in the name of your favorite local denomination and favored ethnic group.

I don't assume anyone should pat me on the back for any of my sexual challenges over the years, but I'm not going to punish the 99% of the world's people who do have those challenges (.... I leave any criminals, though, to the law.) If anything, my verbal aim isn't on the LGBTQ+ paradigm, rather it's on the remaining vestiges of The Playboy Philosophy.
Why aren't Christian leaders up in arms about this like they would be about "segregation" ? Don't you find that odd?

No, I don't find that odd at all. It sounds pretty normal to me.
 
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lifepsyop

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Racial segregation is very much a sin. And one doesn't have to read William Wilberforce or Alan Paton to realize this.

No it's not. Not necessarily. It's only a sin if you hate someone because of their race, the same as if you hate someone because of their height or hair color.

However, there may be any number of practical reasons for segregationist policies (e.g. preventing ethnic conflicts that tend to result)

Segregation can also be about wanting to protect the existence of one's own group, and have nothing to do with hating anyone outside the group. Should ethnic Europeans (France, Germany, etc. ) not be allowed to have their own countries?

There's really no amount of very solid biblical exegesis that can get you out of having to eliminate racial segregation from your Christian Worldview.

Racial/ethnic segregation is not allowed inside the church, of course. Town, city, state, countries aren't a church though are they?

Yeah. I know that. And? What's my responsibility as a Christian to the LGBTQ+ crowd other than to say, "Y'know, guys, biblically speaking, I think sex is binary. But if you'll let me keep my job, I'd be more than happy to take you out for some lunch---my treat----and you can tell me how life is going and what your favorite movie is.................and I'll actually listen!"

Yeah, see. I DON'T have to tell them they're going to Hell because most of them have already heard that message and my job is to love them and encourage them to let go of the World and Let Jesus Help.

You don't think Christians have any responsibility to keep homosexuality (and other forms of degeneracy) out of their communal spaces?

Was that Paul's view?

I'm assuming you were okay with half a million people dying to end slavery, right? I'm also assuming you are okay with the National Guard being called in to break up segregationists at gunpoint?

What should Christians be willing to do to drive out homosexuality from the public square? Take someone out to lunch?
 
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1Tonne

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I DON'T have to tell them they're going to Hell because most of them have already heard that message and my job is to love them and encourage them to let go of the World and Let Jesus Help.
Jesus went around telling people of their sins. He did it so much that the world hated Him. We too should tell as many people as possible that they have fallen short of God's standards. The reason is that although they have all heard the message of heaven and hell, they all seem to think they are good people. They think they can earn their way to heaven. The bible even says that most men will proclaim their own goodness. So, we need to be like Jesus and show people their sins and show them that they are in big trouble. They deserve Hell. But God loves them so much that He gave them a way out. Then we tell them the Gospel.

Sadly, most Christians will not tell unbelievers this truth because they are afraid to speak of hell and sin. They choose not to speak of it because they believe that they will scare away the unbeliever. Instead, they choose to get alongside and become friends and hope that by this, the unbeliever will see the Gospel through their actions. But we need to realise that they Gospel is a spoken message. It is not our actions. We need to speak up. Our actions only give us credibility so that when we do speak, people will be more likely to believe what we say. And, even if we become friends with the unbeliever and tell them the truth, many will be scared away. They will be offended and not be our friends. But with some, the Gospel will sink in and there will be a massive change.

To love someone is to warn them of the danger that they are in. It is unloving to not warn them of hell. We need to speak up.
If you know of everlasting life, and you know of everlasting death, how much do you have to hate somebody to not tell them of it? Penn Jillette
So, love people enough to warn them. Do not simply love them to the grave.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Jesus went around telling people of their sins. He did it so much that the world hated Him. We too should tell as many people as possible that they have fallen short of God's standards. The reason is that although they have all heard the message of heaven and hell, they all seem to think they are good people. They think they can earn their way to heaven. The bible even says that most men will proclaim their own goodness. So, we need to be like Jesus and show people their sins and show them that they are in big trouble. They deserve Hell. But God loves them so much that He gave them a way out. Then we tell them the Gospel.

Sadly, most Christians will not tell unbelievers this truth because they are afraid to speak of hell and sin. They choose not to speak of it because they believe that they will scare away the unbeliever. Instead, they choose to get alongside and become friends and hope that by this, the unbeliever will see the Gospel through their actions. But we need to realise that they Gospel is a spoken message. It is not our actions. We need to speak up. Our actions only give us credibility so that when we do speak, people will be more likely to believe what we say. And, even if we become friends with the unbeliever and tell them the truth, many will be scared away. They will be offended and not be our friends. But with some, the Gospel will sink in and there will be a massive change.

To love someone is to warn them of the danger that they are in. It is unloving to not warn them of hell. We need to speak up.
If you know of everlasting life, and you know of everlasting death, how much do you have to hate somebody to not tell them of it? Penn Jillette
So, love people enough to warn them. Do not simply love them to the grave.

I think you've misunderstood what I've said in my previous posts, brother 1Tonne.
 
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No it's not. Not necessarily. It's only a sin if you hate someone because of their race, the same as if you hate someone because of their height or hair color.
We'll just have to disagree on this, because I'm nearly dead certain that racial segregation is a sin and show a lack of charity and love for one's fellow human beings. If you want to avoid another group of people because of their culture, that may be one thing; but avoiding them simply because you perceive they are of another race---especially when there is only ONE human race---then that is a sin.
However, there may be any number of practical reasons for segregationist policies (e.g. preventing ethnic conflicts that tend to result)
ah. That's just hubris, unbiblical hubris at that.
Segregation can also be about wanting to protect the existence of one's own group, and have nothing to do with hating anyone outside the group. Should ethnic Europeans (France, Germany, etc. ) not be allowed to have their own countries?
I'm ONLY speaking of what I experience in my own nation. What goes on elsewhere in the world (like in Israel/Palestine) I can't control. I can control how I go about living among and interacting with other people in my own nation, however.
Racial/ethnic segregation is not allowed inside the church, of course. Town, city, state, countries aren't a church though are they?
No, but if we advocate for certain principles commanded by Jesus and the Apostles INSIDE the church, we should be reflecting those same values on the outside of Church as well. Do I have to quote the entire New Testament to you to establish this?
You don't think Christians have any responsibility to keep homosexuality (and other forms of degeneracy) out of their communal spaces?
Usually, in the conservative churches I attend, homosexuals keep themselves out of those communal spaces. But so do African-Americans, Latin-Americans and Native Americans. I think that's rather sad, to tell you the truth.
Was that Paul's view?
You've obviously misunderstood my position or you wouldn't be asking me this question. What part of my advocating for binary definitions don't you understand? Is it too difficult to understand if I, at the same time, say that I'd have lunch with folks from the LQBTQ+ crowd?

I'm going to assume that you have read the New Testament as much as I have---which is all of it many times over---and with that being that case, do you want to point me to a place in the New Testament teachings that say I have to 'route out' sinners from society?
I'm assuming you were okay with half a million people dying to end slavery, right?
No, I'm not okay with that. I'm also NOT okay with half a million Christian people dying because they fought for things the support of slavery, apartheid, or racial segregation.
I'm also assuming you are okay with the National Guard being called in to break up segregationists at gunpoint?
Sure. As Paul said, Governments do not bear the sword in vain in order to keep civility and peace.
What should Christians be willing to do to drive out homosexuality from the public square? Take someone out to lunch?

That would we a good start????????????????????????????? Yeah.
 
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1Tonne

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I think you've misunderstood what I've said in my previous posts, brother 1Tonne.
Maybe. I thought I would point out that we need to speak of sin, heaven, hell, judgement and grace. We cannot simply let our love towards the perishing be actions alone. We need to speak the hard stuff that people do not like to hear.
Our actions are not the Gospel.

I have shared the Gospel with many LGBTQ+ people. When I do this, I do not point out their sexuality. Instead, I use the law to convict them. They already know that what they are doing is wrong and so I tend to avoid pointing it out. If I use the law to show them their sin, they normally admit to being lying, thieving, blaspheming, adulators and so they know that they have sinned against God. But if the subject of LGBTQ+ comes up, then I address it. But by this stage, they normally know they are guilty of breaking God's law.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Maybe. I thought I would point out that we need to speak of sin, heaven, hell, judgement and grace. We cannot simply let our love towards the perishing be actions alone. We need to speak the hard stuff that people do not like to hear.
Right, and if you would have read my posts correctly, there's nothing in there indicating that I'm going to advocate for telling folks they're just 'a-ok' every which way they decide.

But whatever the case, and most of all, folks need to see in us the same Jesus that the sinful woman in the Gospel of Luke saw................but that's not what people are most often seeing or hearing. Usually they're hearing how different, sinful and useless they are. That's not ok.

What's more, as I said before, most people in the U.S. have already heard the basics of the Gospel message involving sin, repentance, baptism, etc.

They already know this. What they don't know is that Christians can do more than merely excusing themselves from loving others by using sophistry in their often overly simplistic argumentation about how "Loving God" means preaching at others about Hellfire and Brimstone, and that because they love God and not the World, that's all they have to do to show their love for God.

We all already know there's a Hell to avoid.
I have shared the Gospel with many LGBTQ+ people. When I do this, I do not point out their sexuality. Instead, I use the law to convict them. They already know that what they are doing is wrong and so I tend to avoid pointing it out. If I use the law to show them their sin, they normally admit to being lying, thieving, blaspheming, adulators and so they know that they have sinned against God. But if the subject of LGBTQ+ comes up, then I address it. But by this stage, they normally know they are guilty of breaking God's law.

I would approach it all a different way. But you do you.
 
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lifepsyop

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Sure. As Paul said, Governments do not bear the sword in vain in order to keep civility and peace.

So every government administration prior to the 1940's was in error and going against God's will by not enforcing desegregation?

That's a bold claim.

Do you think it's just a coincidence how openly degenerate western society has become since governments began "keeping the civility and peace" as you call it ?

That would we a good start????????????????????????????? Yeah.

Why not take the segregationist out to lunch and try to change his heart and mind? Why is it okay to call in the Army for that "sin" in particular?


So you're in favor of the government using violence to mix ethnic groups together. (something the NT authors never came close to advocating)

But you're against the government using force to abolish homosexuality from the public square?



This contrast is illuminating in its absurdity.... So many professing Christians that are perfectly willing to use extreme deadly force in order to abolish "sins" that did not even exist prior to the latter half of the 20th century. (segregation)

And yet when it comes to actual sinful behavior that the apostles railed against repeatedly, (e.g. homosexuality) those same Christians want an entirely hands-off easy going approach... "let's talk it out, bro"

What is that all about?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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So every government administration prior to the 1940's was in error and going against God's will by not enforcing desegregation?

That's a bold claim.

Do you think it's just a coincidence how openly degenerate western society has become since governments began "keeping the civility and peace" as you call it ?



Why not take the segregationist out to lunch and try to change his heart and mind? Why is it okay to call in the Army for that "sin" in particular?


So you're in favor of the government using violence to mix ethnic groups together. (something the NT authors never came close to advocating)

But you're against the government using force to abolish homosexuality from the public square?



This contrast is illuminating in its absurdity.... So many professing Christians that are perfectly willing to use extreme deadly force in order to abolish "sins" that did not even exist prior to the latter half of the 20th century. (segregation)

And yet when it comes to actual sinful behavior that the apostles railed against repeatedly, (e.g. homosexuality) those same Christians want an entirely hands-off easy going approach... "let's talk it out, bro"

What is that all about?

I've about had enough your loaded, misdirecting, mischaracterizing questions. You're making yourself look foolish by using them. I hope you know that.
 
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