How Should We Treat Minor-Attracted People?

[Dave-W]

Any hauntings or thoughts on the young boy he molested?

Indeed.

 

[Dave-W]

the burden is on you to show that it does and that pedophilia is a sin.

Pedophilia = having sex with a minor.

Having sex with anyone who is not your spouse (in the bible) is a sin. That includes children.

QED

 

[Dave-W]

I do believe these people did not choose this attraction. Our minds don't work like that. Attraction is controlled by a part of our brain that we are not aware of or we don't use for conscious thought. It just send our conscious mind the signal "I like that" "I don't like that."

But we also believe that God can and regularly does change our desires as we follow HIM.

 

[TNF_13]

Pedophilia = having sex with a minor.

Having sex with anyone who is not your spouse (in the bible) is a sin. That includes children.

QED

Pedophilia is defined as the sexual attraction to children, and prepubescent ones, not just any minor. Conflating sexual harm with sexual attraction is not going to win that argument, Dave. They are two separate ideas. One is a feeling, the other is a behavior.

I made it very clear in my OP that I am not talking about behavior, unless of course, it is the behavior we show to those with the feeling only. If you wish to discuss behavior, you might interact with some of the facts in my other thread you replied to.

 

[TNF_13]

But we also believe that God can and regularly does change our desires as we follow HIM.

Exodus Ministries used to think that same way. Today, every credible mental health organization in the world views therapies to change sexual attraction as extremely harmful. One source even calls it sexual abuse. Can God do anything? Absolutely. However, I prayed for many years for God to change my sexual attraction, and He chose not to. I know that is likewise true for other Christians with unwanted sexual attraction. That leads me to the conclusion that either the sexual attraction is manageable without sin, or that sexual attraction as a whole is part of His creation. Perhaps even both.

So, your reaction to those with an attraction is to tell them to pray their attractions away. What do you say when that does not work, Dave? How do you respond then?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

But we also believe that God can and regularly does change our desires as we follow HIM.

OP guy doesn't seem to think so.

Or at least somehow the working of the Holy Spirit of God is not relevant?

 

[Dave-W]

Exodus Ministries used to think that same way. Today, every credible mental health organization in the world views therapies to change sexual attraction as extremely harmful. One source even calls it sexual abuse.

People trying to do it thru human endeavor, it can be abusive and injurious. But God can and does supernaturally change things without any harm. Does He do it for everyone? No. And we probably will never know why the difference this side of heaven.

So, your reaction to those with an attraction is to tell them to pray their attractions away. What do you say when that does not work, Dave? How do you respond then?

I did not say they are to pray it away themselves. Someone else should be praying FOR them; Someone with the gift of discernment in case it is demonically induced; and to see if there are unconscious hurts/abuse/erroneous beliefs that need to be ministered to.

 

[Dave-W]

Or at least somehow the working of the Holy Spirit of God is not relevant?

The work of the Holy Spirit is relevant in EVERYTHING; even the most mundane organic issues.

 

[teresa]

OP, have you tried to have prayer by the laying on of hands? I believe God can do anything, if it is His will.

May I pray for you?

Shall we not pray for the OP?

I hope I am understanding His reveal that he has this issue.

I apologize if I didn't understand the statement above in post #126

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

.... leads me to the conclusion that either the sexual attraction is manageable without sin, or that sexual attraction as a whole is part of His creation. Perhaps even both.

Totally false heart. Not part of God's reality or existence or understanding. NOTHING OF GOD.
So "the sexual attraction," (falsely called sexual in his case since HE lusts for BOYS) is only "manageable" in that sense, that one then hath NOTHING OF GOD, nothing of Holy Spirit.

Far as blaming God for his disorientation, well even to truthfully articulate it is see that one must look elsewhere to see anything of God.
Of course God does not, i. e. did not, make defective material. One can blame all defects on "the fall," or one can blame SATAN THE DEVIL INCARNATE IN PERVERSION.

OR one can blame the people who lead themselves into temptation and are led into temptation, because they do not know "the very least thing of God," to keep themselves away from SIN'S POSSIBILITY (he seemeth to call it), as much as possible.

I say part of this because there is a somewhat parallel problem I am dealing with elsewhere. To see some of the possible reactions. (I am not totally convinced my last paragraph is entirely correct.)

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I am quite familiar with it. So tell me something, then: Who do you think knows more about how pedophilia operates? Someone who has it, or someone who calls it a perversion?

Someone who calls it a perversion, obviously.

 

[TNF_13]

Totally false heart. Not part of God's reality or existence or understanding. NOTHING OF GOD.
So "the sexual attraction," (falsely called sexual in his case since HE lusts for BOYS) is only "manageable" in that sense, that one then hath NOTHING OF GOD, nothing of Holy Spirit.

Far as blaming God for his disorientation, well even to truthfully articulate it is see that one must look elsewhere to see anything of God.
Of course God does not, i. e. did not, make defective material. One can blame all defects on "the fall," or one can blame SATAN THE DEVIL INCARNATE IN PERVERSION.

OR one can blame the people who lead themselves into temptation and are led into temptation, because they do not know "the very least thing of God," to keep themselves away from SIN'S POSSIBILITY (he seemeth to call it), as much as possible.

I say part of this because there is a somewhat parallel problem I am dealing with elsewhere. To see some of the possible reactions. (I am not totally convinced my last paragraph is entirely correct.)

I am not convinced that any of what you wrote is correct. To reject something as sexual because it does not involve females or adults is to deny the reality that there are people who feel sexually about males or children. That reality exists. Therefore, it is your assertion that seems ridiculous, not the idea that sexual attraction really is not sexual. Then you go on calling it perversion, defective, disorientation...

So really, you are just flaming away over here. I am rather tired of it.

 

[TNF_13]

Someone who calls it a perversion, obviously.

Good one. Tell me another joke!

 

[TNF_13]

OP, have you tried to have prayer by the laying on of hands? I believe God can do anything, if it is His will.

May I pray for you?

Shall we not pray for the OP?

I hope I am understanding His reveal that he has this issue.

I apologize if I didn't understand the statement above in post #126

Pray the pedophilia away is not something that works. To be specific, I know at least six other Christians that I know prayed for their minor attraction to go away. Years later, it is still there. So, again, there are several options:
- God is ignoring people (highly unlikely)
- God is waiting for "the right moment" because "His ways are mysterious" to remove the attraction (convenient explanation for some, rationally unlikely)
- God is not willing to remove the attraction (likely)
- There is nothing inherently sinful or harmful about the attraction (likely)
- There are ways to manage the attraction without resorting to sin (likely)

If you want to pray for me, great, sure. But praying is not a substitute for showing the love of God to those who need it, and newsflash: EVERYONE needs it.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Good one. Tell me another joke!

So says the one who's trying to argue that someone with a desire to harm children is not dangerous to children...

 

[TNF_13]

So says the one who's trying to argue that someone with a desire to harm children is not dangerous to children...

Pedophilia is not a desire to harm children. That is a myth. I was sexually abused, I would not wish that pain on anyone, let alone a group of people I tend to care about. I also have pedophilia, which I manage just fine without hurting children. And yes, I got professional help with my attractions and the self-hate that arose from having those attractions and being aware of the stigma towards them. So your implication that pedophilia is "a desire to harm children" is absurd.

Would you like a more complete version of my story?

My Experience With Sexual Abuse… And Pedophilia – Pedophiles about Pedophilia – Medium

Pedophilia is not just about finding children sexually attractive, it is the same feelings that come up for a heterosexual man towards a woman: You want to cherish, woo, flirt, be romantic, care for, love, hug, protect... and yes, a part of that is sexual. However, it is also emotional and romantic. That being the case, and realizing that one can never ethically be sexual with a child, means that the average person with pedophilia is not going to want to be sexual with a child, and thus, will not want to harm a child.

In short I would like to think it is more rational for me to know more about the attractions I have than someone who does not have those attractions. To suggest otherwise would have to be a joke. I do not believe you were serious. Were you?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Pedophilia is not a desire to harm children. That is a myth.
Pedophilia is not just about finding children sexually attractive, it is the same feelings that come up for a heterosexual man towards a woman: You want to cherish, woo, flirt, be romantic, care for, love, hug, protect... and yes, a part of that is sexual. However, it is also emotional and romantic.

You show precisely how "pedophilia is a desire to harm children."

You a much older person, desire to care for, hug and all the rest. Those things you admit to desiring to do, actually doing them would harm children. Therefore, what you desire to do is to harm children.

 

[TNF_13]

Douglas, let me make this as clear as I can for you.

That is a false accusation, which I just stated is false, and I illustrated why it was false. So, at this point, your comments have gone beyond flaming and have now become harassment. Stop, and leave me alone.

Let me reiterate:

Being sexual with a child is wrong (for obvious reasons, stated multiple times). Being romantic with a child is wrong (for obvious reasons).

Hugging a child and talking to them, particularly caring for them and wanting to protect them, is not wrong or harmful. A minor-attracted person such as myself feels an emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction. An attraction is not a desire to harm, any more than heterosexuality is a desire to rape.

I do not know how much clearer I can make that.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Pedophilia is not just about finding children sexually attractive, it is the same feelings that come up for a heterosexual man towards a woman: You want to cherish, woo, flirt, be romantic, care for, love, hug, protect... and yes, a part of that is sexual. However, it is also emotional and romantic. That being the case, and realizing that one can never ethically be sexual with a child, means that the average person with pedophilia is not going to want to be sexual with a child, and thus, will not want to harm a child.

"It is the same feelings that come up for a heterosexual man towards a woman," which you admit is sexual and emotional and romantic. Trouble is, in the case for which you want to claim an equivalence, the desire is appropriate; if it is fulfilled there is no harm done, nothing in general basically wrong. So, it is far from being an equivalent sort of thing.

In your latest post you seem to have reverted to claiming it is not sexual and emotional and romantic, that part of it you claimed in your post just before is not part of it.

Your original claim seemed to be that being "romantic" is part of it - that you are claiming that for you flirting and wooing is appropriately part of the sexual attraction, just like in the case of "a hetersexual man towards a woman, but it is NOT THE SAME SORT OF CASE AT ALL. Now you seem to be trying to downplay that part of it.

I merely pointed out in #139 that your admitted desire to be romantic and sexual is the DESIRE to do what would harm a child. Is it not?
On the other hand, you seem to be claiming that you do not really want to do anything sexual, that you recognize that would be wrong and, "the average person with pedophilia is not going to want to be sexual with a child, and thus, will not want to harm a child." ON THE AVERAGE, pedophiles will not harm, right?
This DISSONANCE is very noticed by you, I would think.
Your desire is for sex yet your desire is ALSO not to harm (so "the average person with pedophilia" will not want to do the harming - but that is a little different from not actually harming.)

In any case, rather than attack me and try to shut down my words, (contrary to I John 3:12-15), I was hoping for some further enlightenment on how one would deal with such dissonance. You seem to want to suggest there is no problem, but ARE THERE NOT TWO VERY PRONOUNCED DESIRES AT PLAY, and how does one TRY TO ensure that one always opts for the legal and moral desire?

You seem to think it is not appropriate to try to avoid SITUATIONS OF TEMPTATION? Is one not just asking for trouble to so willingly put those two conflicting desires into contention?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I am not convinced that any of what you wrote is correct. To reject something as sexual because it does not involve females or adults is to deny the reality that there are people who feel sexually about males or children. That reality exists. Therefore, it is your assertion that seems ridiculous, not the idea that sexual attraction really is not sexual. Then you go on calling it perversion, defective, disorientation...

So really, you are just flaming away over here. I am rather tired of it.

I am calling it what it is - your accusation against me is just a personal attack, because you do not much like what is said.

What is "the reality" here, what is meant by "feel sexually" about males or children? Is it that one has erections, is that what makes it sexual?

SEX, in God's design, is to leave father and mother and "cleave to his wife." This is sex, what TRUE sexuality is all about. If one distorts that, if one uses one's sexual equipment in a manner contrary to that, in a manner that is the perversion of that, then surely that is something other than the sexuality of God.

It is bad enough that sexual organs and one's mind are distorted in a fashion that denies true sex, that is in fact PSEUDO "SEX," that is bad enough without applying the blessed term, "sexuality," to it. If one falsely calls it that, applies the term "sexuality" to what is in fact the falsification of GOD'S WILL AND WAY, then one is far gone away from God. I.m.h.o.