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How shall we know the true Christ?

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    If a bright being were to land in Jerusalem or holy land on a grand ship from space today, and declare himself a christ or savior of the world, how many would immediately accept it and go to were he was. We find that Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light, 'But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.' (2 Cor. 11:14, KJV).

    Now we know how Satan deceives as he tried it even to Christ back in the wilderness. SOP tells us, "He came to Christ, enshrouded in light, claiming to be one of the angels from the throne of God, sent upon an errand of mercy". So Satan has tried to enshroud himself in light and is a master deceiver and Christ warns us as we see, but things are happening today in a manner which is very surprising and even different than we expected. People are in complete deception as not a single mainline Christian church teaches the Biblical coming of Christ today. Most churches, if they preach about the second coming at all, preach a coming of Christ that He walks around in the world with the wicked, but the Bible teaches He comes to take the saints to the kingdom, or they say He will bring peace to the nations, but the Bible teaches a destruction of nations. They preach a secret rapture with a conversion of sinners at the coming of Christ when the Bible teaches that probation will close and then Christ will come to judge and destroy sin and sinners.

    We see, how Jesus warned that one of the signs that would occur at the end of the age, just prior to his Second Coming, would be the appearance of false Christs. We read in Matthew 24:23-26, basically that at that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' dont believe it. For we shall see false Christs and false prophets appear and perform great signs and miracles to as verse 24 says "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." He tells us ahead of time. So, if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' dont go out there, or 'Here he is, at so and so place, dont believe it.

    So we know just prior to the day of Jesus' Second Coming, there is going to appear visibly on earth a great counterfeit Christ. Ellen G. White described Satans impersonation of Christ very clearly:
    "The world is a theater; the actors, its inhabitants, are preparing to act their part in the last great drama. With the great masses of mankind, there is no unity, except as men confederate to accomplish their selfish purposes. A power from beneath is working to bring about the last great scenes in the drama, Satan coming as Christ". Testimonies for the Church 8:27, 28.

    So how shall we know, which is the false christ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I may, as a guest here >

    I think of how Matthew 24 says Jesus will appear in the sky and send His angels to gather God's people.

    They will be brought to Jesus up in the air, then. No one will be able to go up there unless an angel brings him or her up there . . . I think it is reasonable to believe.

    So . . . may be . . . it won't be so much about if we can know who Jesus is, but it will depend on Jesus knowing if each of us is His.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I don't have the idea, from the relevant Scriptural passages, that Christ will return in triumph...riding in a space ship.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Nice to hear - but that is not the main problem we face -- shiny space ship or not - we have a problem today.

    The "version" of the second coming and Millennium that most Christians "assume" , is not according to the Bible, and it is eminently "fake-able". The world as opted to believe the easiest version of "an age of peace" that could possibly be imagined in favor of a fallen being on Earth with his own fallen angels and able to "appear in the sky" with 1000's of them in bright shiny fashion- taking on the very form of Christ.

    The bible details for what happens at the start of the millennium in the real post-trib pre-mill RAPTURE followed by 1000 years in heaven -- and then a post-mill second coming - is impossible to fake.

    But the Bible version is not what is getting promoted these days - Christian or not.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    In Matt 24 Christ warns that fake second coming's are most surely going to happen - with such power and "ability" that it would deceive if possible the very elect.

    2 Thess 2 also warns of fakes being promoted in the future.

    Satan presents himself as Christ - in the form of "an Angel of light" and his angels will join him in that presentation.

    So then - super bright shiny being descends and declares that this is the second coming -- Christ coming to Earth with all his angels - and setting up a millennial kingdom on Earth.

    Yep - even pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib evangelicals expect that as the end point. Everyone else just expects it right off the bat.

    ======================

    The bible says that the real appearing of Christ will be the rapture taking saints to heaven at the Rev 19 appearing of Christ, Then a return to Earth in Rev 20 after the 1000 years are completed. (Second coming)
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    No doubt Satan has a huge fake-second-coming event planned.

    But first let's define what is meant by the term "second coming".

    Turns out we all use the same term... but mean entirely different things by it.

    When SDAs say "Second Coming" we usually mean what all Christians refer to as "the rapture" when we say "second coming". We expect Rev 19 to be the rapture (that we call "second coming"). We expect the post-mill event in Rev 20 to be the only time when a real "second coming to reign on Earth" happens.

    When non-SDAs say "second coming" they are talking about a future point in time when just as Christ was on Earth 2000 years ago, so in the future Christ will be on Earth once again. And they think that is what happens in Rev 19.

    Using the same term but having a very different meaning for it - is confusing. Either as SDAs we should use the term RAPTURE for the Rev 19 event or else tell everyone that our "second coming" definition is not the way everyone else defines that phrase.

    I did two ZOOM sermons on this over the past two weeks -- and have some threads on CF to flesh out this gap so we can all see what it is.

    Our SDA belief translates to

    a. pre-mill post-trib RAPTURE as in Rev 19 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 (and Matt 24)
    b. post-mill "second coming" as seen in Rev 20
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  7. Gary K

    Gary K Well-Known Member

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    To set the context for my reply I give you the following scripture.

    Jesus is the inspiration and author of the OT and the NT. Both are the unchangeable word of God.

    Jesus never changes. What He says once stays forever true.

    So, what is the most reliable way of detecting the devil no matter the guise he appears under? He will lie about what Jesus has said. He will claim to have have changed his mind about one or more of Jesus' pronouncements in scripture. He is the greatest con man the universe has ever seen so he will be very plausible. But plausibility is not, and never has been, truth.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    No doubt he will change Bible doctrine. And we can already have the "sola scriptura testing of all doctrine" sorts of debates today. In that sense nothing at all changes in the future because we will still see that any differences that appear must still be vetted with a "sola scriptura test of all doctrine" proposed. A lot of the same objections will be raised (if not more objections at that time). Yet the "sola scriptura" test will continue to be just as "revealing" when it comes to exposing error in the future as it already is today.

    He shows up looking just like Christ, with angels that look just like heavenly angels - the most amazing sight every witnessed by mortal eyes - coming in the clouds of heaven.

    He speaks the same words as Christ.

    He then introduces emphasis on certain doctrines - popular with a lot of Christians, not-so-popular with a few others.

    But here are two big elephants in the living room already visible for all to see.

    1. He fails to destroy all the wicked - or to the Jer 4 "desolate earth" condition at the appearing of Christ.
    2. He fails to resurrect all saints and take both the living and the dead to heaven.

    It is already apparent to all Christians that the events I just listed are not what they expect to see at the start of the 1000 year millennium. So even before getting to a future event to then "see" that something is wrong - we can look at the current expectations that have already been set - to see that something is wrong.

    ======================

    When people ask me about the "mark of beast" or what it is - there is always my response that we predict a future where certain Bible doctrines will be challenged and religious liberty will be threatened. But that always has this as a possible response - "well we will have to wait and see if such a future prediction actually pans out". Which is only fair and reasonable to allow for that as a likely response.

    But what is "already evidence" regarding the future is that all mankind has been "positioned" to expect "the wrong thing" according to the Bible when it comes to a millennial kingdom of "peace and safety" and the reign on Earth - of someone from outside Earth. I don't think that it is an accident that expectations among both Christians and non-Christians are lined up as they are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  9. Gary K

    Gary K Well-Known Member

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    All we really need to know to detect him is that he will claim that he is Jesus and then lie by claiming that he, Jesus, just changed. The Bible tells us that Jesus will never change. He will reveal himself by contradicting scripture. He can't help it. He must get people to believe him rather than God. It boils down to what happened in the Garden. The choice will be exactly the same choice Adam and Eve faced. Are we going to believe God or him?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    I agree that in the future "all those already bought in to sola scriptura testing" and who "already have the right doctrine because they already fixed all the errors" using that test - will have a certain degree of protection.

    But consider this

    1. - every argument made today about the OT statements having the death penalty for Sabbath breaking - is most often resolved by the fact that we no longer have a theocracy as Israel did - so those rules don't apply.

    2. We also make the case as in Heb 10 that the laws for animal sacrifice given in the OT by God - are ended in the NT by the Word of God in Heb 10:4-12. God gave the law -- God ended it as His Word states when it comes to animal sacrifices.

    Well - when someone shows up looking like Christ, repeating His Words - and having the bright shiny angels that everyone expects -- and declares that the theocracy is now restored for mankind - God is now the king.

    The argument you are talking about basically becomes "testing God - by sola scriptura tests to see if He is ok to follow", even though Heb 10 is a clear case of God's Word showing how His own law for animal sacrifice ends, as sanctioned by the Word of God in Heb 10

    ======================================

    My conclusion is this -

    1. The scenario above is not the "easy one" and is one of several reasons that we have in Matt 24 - Christ's own statement that this would deceive if possible the very elect. So then "agreed" that sola scriptura is the answer - but also admitted that in the scenario you are looking at - it will be very very difficult to make the case. It will walking by faith not by sight in the extreme..

    2. That particular sola scriptura test you are talking about for the future -- can not easily be shared with someone who is non-SDA because they have to first concede to a lot of Bible doctrines that that they do not already understand as you would suggest. And they also have to concede to that "future scenario" which they already do not consider to be very likely.

    3. I think it would be much easier for both sides - ( SDA and non-SDA) to look at the more sizeable "elephants" in the living room:
    a. - Jer 4 and its "Desolate Earth" event also found in Rev 19.Which is the reality of the millennium on Earth following Rev 19.
    b. - the rapture texts in the NT, where the point is not made by SDAs alone but many evangelicals also get this point clearly about saints raptured to heaven.​

    4. IF someone is ready to be persuaded that good bible doctrine is already supposed to be vetted "sola scriptura" and is without any error left over from man-made tradition then that future debate is already won today. In fact that sort of debate already happens all the time. The only difference in the future is that "our side" becomes even more disadvantaged in terms of the likelihood of persuading with the "sola scriptura" case. Because in that future scenario you are talking about - God Himself is supposedly on Earth ruling and no human is likely to be inclined to question or "test" Him against anything. Thank God we do not have to deal with such a situation today and I can hardly fathom the magnitude of such a future scenario.

    This is why looking at all the Bible topics you are highlighting is a great thing to do right now -- and the ideal time to ask people to take a look is "now" rather than later.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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