Partial Preterist Only How much OT/NT prophecy [as well as Revelation] do Partial-Preterists view as fulfilled?

[claninja]

Yes. Both of them.

There are two resurrections revealed by Christ in John chapter 5.

The first is the spiritual resurrection from the dead, found below.
I was dead, but now I am alive, because of my faith in Christ. (spiritually)

I agree. So we have been waiting 2000 years to receive the blessing of the bodily resurrection under the new covenant?

The second resurrection in the chapter is the "hour" when the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead occurs in the passage below.

I agree, albeit, I believe the bodily resurrection is from natural body to spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Full-Preterism acknowledges the first resurrection, but denies the second resurrection in the passage.

If the a Full preterist denies the resurrection from natural body to spiritual body, then I would also disagree with the Full preterist.

I believe the 1st being born again, the 2nd being from a natural body to a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Or they attempt to also spiritualize the second resurrection to make their doctrine work.

Here Paul describes the resurrection. With what type of body are we raised in?
1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

They cannot accept the possibility that we will be physically resurrected from the dead in the same way that Christ was resurrected from the dead. This is one of the chief errors of the doctrine.

Do you believe Jesus is sitting on the throne in the same body he had during the 40 days after his resurrection?

Jesus's resurrected body still had his wounds. I don't believe this was Jesus glorified body. I believe Jesus was glorified when he entered heaven. Instead, I believe Jesus rose from the dead, with a body that still had wounds, as a witness to the disciples that the resurrection was real. I don't believe that when I rise, I will still have the same scars on my hand or legs.
John 20:27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Notice John states that what we will be has not yet been revealed. If we are to look like how Christ looked for the 40 days after his resurrection, then John is wrong because it was revealed. Instead I believe the glorified spiritual bodies are what are waiting to be revealed. Then we will be like Christ and see him as he truly is, for He is God.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

 

[BABerean2]

Do you believe Jesus is sitting on the throne in the same body he had during the 40 days after his resurrection?

Jesus's resurrected body still had his wounds. I don't believe this was Jesus glorified body. I believe Jesus was glorified when he entered heaven. Instead, I believe Jesus rose from the dead, with a body that still had wounds, as a witness to the disciples that the resurrection was real. I don't believe that when I rise, I will still have the same scars on my hand or legs.
John 20:27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Can you tell us where Christ's body with the wounds now resides?

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[claninja]

Can you tell us where Christ's body with the wounds now resides?

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transfigured and glorified at the right hand of the Father.

1 john 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Matthew 17:2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

transfigured and glorified at the right hand of the Father.

1 john 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Matthew 17:2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Son of Man on cloud............

Matthew 17:5
Still of-Him speaking, behold! a luminous cloud over-shadows them.
And behold! a Voice out of the cloud, saying,
`This is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!".

Luke 21:27
“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9
Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up,
and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

A how He is after being taken up........

Cloud and rainbow:

Revelation 10:1
And I saw another strong<2478> Messenger descending out of the heaven
having been clothed<4016> a cloud
and the rainbow<2463> upon His head
and His face as the sun and His feet as pillars<4769> of fire

Genesis 9:16
“The rainbow shall be in the cloud,
and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.”

Golden crown on His head:

Revelation 14:
14 And I looked and behold! a white cloud
and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting having a golden crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp sickle

The 2 witnesses resurrected and raptured at the harvest of the wheat and darnel:

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

One strong Messenger tells the "one like a Son of Man" to thrust in the sickle and reap:

Revelation 14:15
And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle! and reap!
for the time has come for Thee to reap, for the harvest of the land is ripe.”
Revelation 14:16
So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Mark 4:29
“But when the grain ripens, immediately he puts in the sickle,
because the harvest has come.”

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[Stazzie]

Full-preterism scares the living crap out of me, I will always believe that all of the events in Revelations will occur in near future (hopefully in the next 10-20yrs). While reading this entire thread, I was rooting for "BABerean2" to defend my beliefs lol

 

[BABerean2]

Full-preterism scares the living crap out of me, I will always believe that all of the events in Revelations will occur in near future (hopefully in the next 10-20yrs). While reading this entire thread, I was rooting for "BABerean2" to defend my beliefs lol

You are correct. Full-Preterism is another man-made doctrine.

Nobody saw Christ return to planet earth during 70 AD.
Christ remained seated at the Father's right hand while the Romans were allowed to destroy Jerusalem, in the same way the Babylonians had done it earlier.

This rotten, sin-cursed world cannot be eternal based on the understanding of astronomers who know what happens to our planet when the sun runs out of fuel.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Full-preterism scares the living crap out of me, I will always believe that all of the events in Revelations will occur in near future (hopefully in the next 10-20yrs). While reading this entire thread, I was rooting for "BABerean2" to defend my beliefs lol

Yeah...It even scares the caca out of most Idealist/Partial Preterists, a lot of whom used to be Futurists and Zionist Dispensationalists..........
You rarely see Preterists revert back to futurism once they cross that divide into the spiritual truth of fulfilled eschatology.......

Romans 8:6
To be carnally minded is death,
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1Corinthians 2:14
For the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him;
nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.

Mark 4:11
And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God;
but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
Revelation 10:7
but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound,
the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/2004_cheo_explained.html



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[Christian Gedge]

Insofar as the question goes, "When is/was prophecy fulfilled" views range from extreme Preterist to extreme Futurist. A rough list looks like this:

Full Preterist >> Partial Preterist >> Historicist >> Futurist >> Disp. Futurist​

The Historicist view used to be quite well known about 150 years ago but it lost ground to modern futurist theories. Unfortunately, a number of oddball sects still follow historicism, but I do not think we should reject it out of hand because of that. The basic idea is that the books of Daniel and Revelation have been gradually unfolding throughout the last 2000 years. (The Church Age)

Historicism's basic premise is the best model IMO because Preterism, full and part, is inflexible to the possibility of any fulfillment between AD 70 and Christ's second coming. There are ample examples of prophetic fulfillment in-between those dates, not the least of which was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 135.

For what its worth, Im 'new-style' Historicist and Amil.

 

[jgr]

Insofar as the question goes, "When is/was prophecy fulfilled" views range from extreme Preterist to extreme Futurist. A rough list looks like this:

Full Preterist >> Partial Preterist >> Historicist >> Futurist >> Disp. Futurist​

The Historicist view used to be quite well known about 150 years ago but it lost ground to modern futurist theories. Unfortunately, a number of oddball sects still follow historicism, but I do not think we should reject it out of hand because of that. The basic idea is that the books of Daniel and Revelation have been gradually unfolding throughout the last 2000 years. (The Church Age)

Historicism's basic premise is the best model IMO because Preterism, full and part, is inflexible to the possibility of any fulfillment between AD 70 and Christ's second coming. There are ample examples of prophetic fulfillment in-between those dates, not the least of which was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 135.

For what its worth, Im 'new-style' Historicist and Amil.

Historicism underpinned the Reformation, without which we and this forum and a whole lot else, would not be here today.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nobody saw Christ return to planet earth during 70 AD.
Christ remained seated at the Father's right hand while the Romans were allowed to destroy Jerusalem, in the same way the Babylonians had done it earlier.
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Well, the Apostles and the Jews of that generation are not around to tell us whether they saw Him or not.
If I am not mistaken, a lot of Bibles scholars, even some futurists admit to Luke 21 beings about 70 ad, but that Matt and Mark are still future because of the AoD.

That aside, did anyone notice the word "redemption<629> in Luke 21:28?
It is used only in this 1 verse of the Gospels.
Remember, this was said PRE-70ad to that generation of Jews:

Luke 21:
27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption<629> draws near.”

I keyed in "son of man cloud" and behold!
It is used together in 1 other verse in the NT
concerning the "harvest" in Revelation 14. This is just awesome!!!

Revelation 14:14
Then I looked, and behold! a white cloud,
and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man,
having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.

The are told to lift up their heads........could it be they see the Son of Man [just as Stephen saw Him in Acts 7:56?]

Luke 21:28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption<629> draws near.”

That appears to be when those mysterious 2 witnesses are "raptured"

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
Amd they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

Book - Sealed with 7 Seals
Cloud/Clouds Messengers, Daniel Gabriel and Michael




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[BABerean2]

That appears to be when those mysterious 2 witnesses are "raptured"

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
Amd they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

Do you think the above also happened during 70 AD, but we do not know if anyone saw it?

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you think the above also happened during 70 AD, but we do not know if anyone saw it?

.

Do you believe the 7 events Josephus writes about actually happened?

Horses and chariots are mentioned numerous times concerning prophecy and mentioned in Revelation.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. "
Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

horses chariots (NKJV)

Jeremiah 46:9
Come up, O horses, and rage, O chariots!
And let the mighty men come forth:
The Ethiopians and the Libyans who handle the shield,
And the Lydians who handle and bend the bow.

Micah 5:10
“And it shall be in that day,” says the LORD,
“That I will cut off your horses from your midst
And destroy your chariots.
Nahum 3:2
The noise of a whip
And the noise of rattling wheels,
Of galloping horses,
Of clattering chariots!

John 2:
14 and He found in the temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the Temple, also the sheep, and the oxen;

Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense
and wine and oil and flour and grain
and beasts and sheep
and of horses and of chariots
and of bodies and souls of men.
[Nahum 3:2/John 2:14]



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[BABerean2]

Do you believe the 7 events Josephus writes about actually happened?

Horses and chariots are mentioned numerous times concerning prophecy and mentioned in Revelation.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. "
Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

Can you show which of the books of Josephus it came from?
I have access to his works on Esword.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Can you show which of the books of Josephus it came from?
I have access to his works on Esword.
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It is late and I am tired, but I found this. [I will be back tomorrow, the Lord willing.]...........

It looks like this part comes from:

Book V, Chapter I, Section 4 (Entire)

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness. Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example.
Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. .......

Josephus: The Wars Of The Jews; History of the Destruction Of Jerusalem

Book V, Chapter I, Section 4 (Entire)
The Destruction Of A Vast Quantity Of Corn That Led To Famine During The Siege

4. And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other. Eleazar and his party, that kept the sacred first-fruits, came against John in their cups. Those that were with John plundered the populace, and went out with zeal against Simon. This Simon had his supply of provisions from the city, in opposition to the seditious........
while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by engines of war; and if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all provisions.* The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the others' retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the Siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. ..............


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[claninja]

Can you show which of the books of Josephus it came from?
I have access to his works on Esword.

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Josephus
Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

Tacitus
In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).