How much of our suffering is from lack of faith or certainty?

[Godlovesmetwo]

That God remains a mystery to us. That we have to believe in a God we cant see. That we cant understand the purpose of our own suffering whether it be physical, emotional or psychological.
I think if we all knew exactly what God has planned for us, knew exactly where we are going in the next life, knew exactly what we were supposed to do in this life and had absolutely no doubts about God's love for us, a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Maybe God likes us to be on our toes, anxious so we stay humble, don't get too big for our boots.

 

[HoleyHermit]

If we knew exactly what God had planned for us, but still had some doubt about God's love, we might have heart attacks.

 

[SpiritofaDove]

I agree with what you are saying. I have a lot of anxiety because I don't trust God's plan and sometimes doubt this or that. If I didn't and I would totally just let go and trust God, I know I'd have so much more peace. Problem is.......I always pray and want to do that, but every day I struggle.....

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I worked briefly with the severely disabled. They were mostly bed-ridden. I would be shattered if God asked me to endure that. But if the disabled had some feeling of certainty about their future, in this life and the next , that would relieve a lot of their suffering I feel. For instance, they might be able to see how short this life is ,compared to eternity. I am aware of that truth on an intellectual level, but I don't fully believe on a gut level yet.

 

[TrueBornAgain]

Yes God is the great mystery, but only so far as our misunderstanding wishes to have certainty

The purpose of our suffering is certainly known by God Almighty and we must come to terms that it is necessary for His purposes whether we understand or not, that we may one day realise or not, we can see evidence of our suffering improving the hive of our fellow man and our family, so our suffering has greater value to us also especially if we become wiser and come to understand God and then knowledge and wisdom will follow.

God won't be defined in the terms we know or expect physically but more He will reveal to us spiritually and through circumstances and inner dialogue, so this is private and personal and only those who have come to understand God is not what we would like to think He is will realise this and see it.
If what we call "suffering" has helped us to grow and realise the chances and opportunities God offers to us, and that will certainly be noted and of value upon His judgement when our time comes, then is it really "suffering" ? or perhaps graduation for the greater Kingdom of God ?

I used to believe in reincarnation before becoming a Born Again Christian, now I see Biblically, that this life is it, and when my time comes it will be eternal life with Jesus due to my Faith and works.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That we cant understand the purpose of our own suffering whether it be physical, emotional or psychological.

YHWH clearly spells this out in His Word, Genesis through Revelation,
perhaps particularly in Hebrews.
Remember "for lack of knowledge MY PEOPLE PERISH" is true today,
and "many false prophets, many false teachers, many antichrists are AMONG US (in the 'church(es)' everywhere) ... so finding the truth is not at all as easy , no not at all, as you thought in the past.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

YHWH clearly spells this out in His Word, Genesis through Revelation,
perhaps particularly in Hebrews.
(He tells plainly how to have perfect peace, joy and righteousness today).

Remember "for lack of knowledge MY PEOPLE PERISH" is true today,
and "many false prophets, many false teachers, many antichrists are AMONG US (in the 'church(es)' everywhere) ... so finding the truth is not at all as easy , no not at all, as you thought in the past.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

YHWH clearly spells this out in His Word, Genesis through Revelation,
perhaps particularly in Hebrews.
Remember "for lack of knowledge MY PEOPLE PERISH" is true today,
and "many false prophets, many false teachers, many antichrists are AMONG US (in the 'church(es)' everywhere) ... so finding the truth is not at all as easy , no not at all, as you thought in the past.

Hey jeff, do you think the Book of Job is useful on this subject?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hey jeff, do you think the Book of Job is useful on this subject?

Not usually,
and not for most people ,
not in most places.

the purpose of our own suffering

This is really no mystery at all.

The 'secret' is, as was with all Jesus' disciples,
YHWH must reveal the truth, to each one, (He Does),
or it is not known.

And it is plainly, clearly , in the BIBLE (NEW TESTAMENT and TORAH).

Little children "get it"; while the "educated ones" mostly don't, exactly as Jesus explained to all His disciples.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Not usually,
and not for most people ,
not in most places.

Oh I thought Job was all about the mystery of suffering. That God tells us "You are not God so don't try to understand everything. You are not on my level."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oh I thought Job was all about the mystery of suffering. That God tells us "You are not God so don't try to understand everything. You are not on my level."

No, not at all.

Throughout the New Testament, YHWH reveals His Plan and His Purpose to all His disciples.

Later (after the second century especially), the religious leaders stopped telling those who were seeking YHWH'S KINGDOM and WAY
the truth,
and prevented many from finding His Kingdom.
This is still true today.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I think if we all knew exactly what God has planned for us, knew exactly where we are going in the next life, knew exactly what we were supposed to do in this life and had absolutely no doubts about God's love for us, a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

Absolutely. If we could see ahead for sure and saw great joys in store for us, I think it'd be easier to shrug off current problems.

 

[TrueBornAgain]

Absolutely. If we could see ahead for sure and saw great joys in store for us, I think it'd be easier to shrug off current problems.

That God remains a mystery to us. That we have to believe in a God we cant see. That we cant understand the purpose of our own suffering whether it be physical, emotional or psychological.
I think if we all knew exactly what God has planned for us, knew exactly where we are going in the next life, knew exactly what we were supposed to do in this life and had absolutely no doubts about God's love for us, a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

Lets face it this isn't going to happen so it's a question that illustrates wanting and anxiety, is a distraction from this life regardless if there is any "next life" to worry about. If we trust God's word and of Jesus "what we are meant to do" will be understood as we relate it to our personal lives, and the Holy Spirit can guide us to those answers we may want when we digest the messages, and allow our intuition to work. We will get signals if we are not where we are supposed to be ?

prayer and trust also that you may be exactly where God needs you to be even if you are suffering, and who isn't to some extent. Some far more than others and usually the ones suffering the most complain the least and vice versa.

So if we keep the commandments then we know what God has in store for us is generally good. All God's surprises will be revealed in the right time and at the right pace if we endeavor to meet them with the hard work today but that cant be done if our mind is in the future and caught up in fear and anxiety, that is not the essence of God.

All suffering is Gods plan to test and experience us, and to convict us in the truth as we come to understand God, then can come the gifts and wisdom which makes up for the suffering and more hopefully. To want it all revealed now to me shows a lack of belief and trust in God's mysterious arena of lessons and preparation for what our souls will become. It's a common thing that people struggle with this though, that's why psychic mediums and those who communicate with the dead are so popular out there in the Faithless/Godless world.

I do pray no being suffers unnecessarily though, and I embrace what I don't know or have as much as what I do know and have is what I need now, God may not give us what we want necessarily but what we need.

 

[TrueBornAgain]

This audio sermon covers personal tribulations and everything related, amazing perspective I hope you get something from it. Very powerful stuff

Matthew 24 | Souls Forged Thru Suffering.

 

[Tigersense]

If we knew God's plan, we well may indeed not be able to handle it(the heart attack post).

Even Jesus, knowing his role/fate, basically tried to beg off God from putting him through what was about to come. If He had the fear sweats, what would knowing do to us?

 

[TrueBornAgain]

For those who are interested in this discussion may I suggest reading this Chapter of KJV or your favorite version, pay particular notice to 8:28 and ofcourse you will see many others that apply to this discussion throughout the chapter.
Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Shempster]

I am quite sure that much of our own suffering is self-inflicted.
Many physical ailments are cause by what we put into our bodies.
Many emotional ailments exist because of our anger that others do not bolster our egos.
Many psychological problems come from fear. Fears from false ideas that steal our joy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think if we all knew exactly what God has planned for us, knew exactly where we are going in the next life, knew exactly what we were supposed to do in this life and had absolutely no doubts about God's love for us, a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

No fears. No anxieties. None at all.

How did this happen (perfectly accomplished)

in ACTS (5th book in the New Testament) ?

In EPHESIANS ?

In PHILIPPIANS ?

In REVELATION ?

Today ?

 

[fhansen]

That God remains a mystery to us. That we have to believe in a God we cant see. That we cant understand the purpose of our own suffering whether it be physical, emotional or psychological.
I think if we all knew exactly what God has planned for us, knew exactly where we are going in the next life, knew exactly what we were supposed to do in this life and had absolutely no doubts about God's love for us, a lot of our anxieties and fears would be put at rest.

I agree. To the extent that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength we are at peace, even in the midst of the storm. But this requires knowledge of Him; it requires faith, hope, and, most importantly, love.

The opposite state, that we all experience to one degree or another, contains much in the way of strife, jealousy, competition, selfishness, pride, etc., everything but 'letting go and letting God', or 'being still, and knowing that He is God'. Pride/ego opposes God, and at the same time drives the world, influencing much of what we do, like it or not. We have a very difficult time not caring what the world thinks about us, not being drawn to its values. We'll struggle with "concupiscence" all our lives, with the thought that perhaps we coulda/shoulda/woulda done or had this or that. And this desire, these unfulfilled longings for things we can't even always identify with certainty, serve to make us miserable to a greater or lesser degree, but miserable nonetheless, compared to the peace and joy God would have us know. They constitute our distance from God, because with them we're placing our hope in other, created, things. They drive people into all kinds of addictions and excessive behavior that can end up in tragedy.

We're here to learn of our need for God above all else, as we come to learn of His existence first of all, of His incomparable goodness, trustworthiness, mercy, and boundless love, and begin to recognize His supreme value as the true light- and source of the complete fulfillment of all desire. "God alone satisfies", as Thomas Aquinas put it. Everything else is a detour, begun by Adam in Eden.