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How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (2)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Correct! The Herodian temple was adorned with marble stones embedded with gold. These were the stones that were the subject of the prophecy.

    5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown downLuke 21:5

    :thumbsup:
     
  2. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    thx much about the stones, both of ya

    bad day for me today - Navy Yard killings very upsetting

    I was working at Ft Hood a few years ago when all those killings/woundings happened

    you wouldn't believe how many people came to give blood the next day at Red Cross

    i'm not in great place right now - like a bad flashback
     
  3. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    God be with you brother.
     
  4. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    deleted wrong thread
     
  5. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    You are entitled to your opinions.

    And so am I.

    I don't need to be dogmatic about my opinion being "irrefutable" regarding 2 Cor. 4:4.

    I just know that Paul is not referring to the Lord when he says, "the god of this age"

    And the term "this age" doesn't solely refer to "unbelievers" It's primary meaning is one of time., not people.

    There were 2 ages in scripture that the Jews understood.

    The age before the Messiah- and the age of the Messiah.

    The "this age" which ended in AD70, & "the age to come" after the "end of the age." predicted in Matthew 24.

    To the Romans Paul spoke of "the God of peace bruising Satan under their feet shortly." (Rom 16:20). To Corinth Paul wrote that "the God of the age had blinded the unbelieving that the light of the gospel might not dawn upon them." (II Cor 4:4). To the Hebrews Paul wrote that "Jesus partook of flesh and blood that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." (Heb 2:14). Peter wrote that "the devil was going about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour." (I Pet 5:8). John says that "to this end was the Son of God manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil." (I Jn 3:8).
    ~ Preterist Archive.


    I rest my case also. :wave:
     
  6. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hey. What the heck happened to the poll for this thread :confused:

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/
    Old Thread Closed
    This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically closed.
    The new thread automatically created is here: "How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (2)"


    View Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled

    I view all of it fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 39 24.38%

    I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 66 41.25%

    I view it as none of it is fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 22 \13.75%

    I don't really know [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 15 9.38%

    Other [please explain] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 18 11.25%


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  8. A New World

    A New World Member

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    As a Full Preterist I believe it has been fulfilled.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thanks for your input.

    Do you believe all of Revelation is fulfilled also?

    And do you view Revelation and the Olivet discourse as one and the same event?

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7276015/
    Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?


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  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    I do now.

    This thread has gone on so long that I changed from a futurist mocking preterism to a full preterist myself!

    I thank LittleLamb, Boxer, Parousia70 (in other threads) and especially Coraline who recommended WHO IS THIS BABYLON by Preston, which I read with much astonishment

    Fulfilled.

    Jesus came back soon - within the generation - like He said He would

    The fervent heat of the Temple fire in 70 AD melted the "elements" of Mosaic Judaism along with the gold in the stones that Roman soldiers tore rocks apart to get at
     
  11. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Amen!
     
  12. IchoozJC

    IchoozJC Regular Member

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    Can a preterist explain how the parable of weeds and wheat in Matt 13 fit in with your view?

    Thanks
     
  13. RevelationTestament

    RevelationTestament Our God is a consuming fire.

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    A seventy yr "1000 yrs" is just silly. As I have discussed before Christ was speaking of the generation of the earth or creation like in Gen 2, and not man. So we have Him saying He will return in this generation, rather than the regeneration.
     
  14. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Who said anything about a seventy year 1000 years?
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Which makes Jesus a true Prophet.
    I would venture to guess if the OC apostate unbelieving Jews believed Jesus was their Messiah, they would also agree with the Christian Preterist and/or the Amill view.

    James 5:3
    The gold of ye and the silver corrodes and the venom of them into a testimony to ye shall be,
    and it shall be eating/ the fleshes of ye as fire.
    Ye hoard in Last Days!
    [Ezekiel 7:19/Zeph 1:18/Revelation 18:12]

    Reve 18:12
    cargo of gold and of silver and of precious stoneand of *pearl and of *cambric and of purple and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron
    and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron and of marble,

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


    The Destruction Of
    JERUSALEM
    An Absolute and Irresistible
    PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF
    CHRISTIANITY:
    INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF
    THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS

     

    The magnificent Temple that Herod had built was completely destroyed as the fires raged inside and out. These fires were so hot that the gold fittings, and the gold gilding inside and on it's outside walls melted and ran into the cracks between and in the stones.

    During the pillaging of the Temple these stones were broken up to get at the gold. Therefore, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that no stone would be left on another—the destruction was total, just as Jesus foretold........


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  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I keep reading this in many posts but I have never read any historical evidence i.e. something written at or near the time in question, by a participant or an eyewitness that "the gold gilding ... melted and ran into the cracks between and in the stones. ... these stones were broken up to get at the gold." Sounds to me like an invented internet legend.
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I don't know of any first hand eyewitnesses who wrote about that event except for Josephus

    The Effects of the Fall of Jerusalem on Christianity

    Traditional Accounts of the Fate of Jerusalem Christians at 70 C.E.

    In the NT Luke 20:21 ff seems to recast Mk 13:14 ff (cf. Matt 24:15 ff) so as to make certain reference to the overthrow of Jerusalem. However, difficulty in assigning an exact date to the writing of the Third Gospel(3) makes it impossible to know just where the saying fits into the history of the Jerusalem Christian community. If the woman of Rev 12 represents the Jerusalem Church, her flight into the wilderness (vs 6) may also reflect the experiences of this Christian group around 70 C.E...............

    Comments:

    This is a very interesting study, I have read Brandon's book myself. Mr. Scott needs to remember that the consensus is growing that all the books of the N.T. were completed before 70AD (J.A.T. Robertson, "Redating the N.T., Norman Geisler "I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist").

    The NT does not make reference to the destruction of the Temple as a fulfilled event.

    If Brandon is correct, this would help explain the post-apostolic fathers silence and alleged misunderstanding of the Parousia does it not?

    [​IMG]


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    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2014
  18. A New World

    A New World Member

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    In my opinion, "generation" has nothing to do with "the generation of the earth."

    Moses prophesied about the latter days generation. He told the nation of Israel about her end just before she entered the promised land.

    "For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you. And evil will befall you in the latter days, because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.” (Deuteronomy 31:29 NKJV)

    He taught Israel a song to pass down to subsequent generations.

    "Then Moses spoke in the hearing of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song until they were ended" (Deuteronomy 31:30 NKJV)

    As he finished he gave them the purpose for this song.

    "and he said to them: “Set your hearts on all the words which I testify among you today, which you shall command your children to be careful to observe—all the words of this law. For it is not a futile thing for you, because it is your life, and by this word you shall prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess.” (Deuteronomy 32:46, 47 NKJV)

    Moses gave three key characteristics of the latter days generation of Old Covenant Israel, they are: Perverse, Crooked, and Faithless or "Children in whom is no faith."

    “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children, Because of their blemish: A perverse and crooked generation."

    "And He said: ‘I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be, For they are a perverse generation, Children in whom is no faith." (Deuteronomy 32:5, 20 NKJV)

    This phrasing is not found in Scripture until the arrival of Messiah:

    "Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” (Matthew 17:17 NKJV)

    Peter continued Jesus' theme and left no doubt that he and his audience were living in the time of Israel's latter days.

    "And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” (Acts 2:40 NKJV)

    If one cannot recognize the fact that the first century AD was the terminal generation they simply haven't considered Paul's admonition:

    "that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (Philippians 2:15 NKJV)

    There is no question about the fact that Jesus' incarnation coincided with the prophecy of Moses regarding Israel's last days. God then raised up the inspired apostles to proclaim the gospel to the entire Roman world before the end arrived.
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Great post!
    Have you gandered at this other thread concerning Revelation and the OT?

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7588850-9/#post58430118
    Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament


    Exodus 15:
    1 Then Mosheh is singing and sons of Yisra'el this song to YAHWEH and they are saying to say "I shall sing to YAHWEH, that to exalt He exalts.
    Horse and one riding of him He heaved into sea
    [Reve 15:3]
    2 Strenghth of melody of me Yah. And He is becoming to me for salvation. This one El of me and I shall adorn Him, Elohiym of father of me and I shall exalt Him"

    Reve 15:3
    And they are singing the Song of Moses, the bond-servant of the God and the Song of the Lambkin saying "great and marvelous the Works of Thee Lord! the God, the Almighty.
    Just and true the ways of Thee, the King of the saints" [*ages/*nations].
    [Exodus 15]


    .
    THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

    One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That’s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

    95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
    That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!....................



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  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thks for that link. It also ties the Olivet Disourse to Revelation :idea:
    2 Timothy 4:1 translation - Page 3 - Christian Forums
    2 Timothy 4:1 translation and "mello"

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
    Strong's Number G3195 matches the Greek μέλλω (mellō), which occurs 110 times in 107 verses in the Greek concordance

    Matthew 3:7
    Seeing yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon his baptism, he said to them "produce of vipers!
    who suggested to ye to be fleeing from the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) wrath?"

    2 Timothy 4:1
    Thru-witnessing then I, before the God and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living and dead according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him [Reve 11:18]

    Reve 3:10
    That thou keep the Word of the endurance of Me, I also thee shall be keeping out of the hour of the trial of the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) to be coming upon the whole being-homed, to try/test the ones dwelling upon the land.

    3195. mello mel'-lo a strengthened form of 3199 (through the idea of expectation); to intend, i.e. be about to be, do, or suffer something (of persons or things, especially events; in the sense of purpose, duty, necessity, probability, possibility, or hesitation):--about, after that, be (almost), (that which is, things, + which was for) to come, intend, was to (be), mean, mind, be at the point, (be) ready, + return, shall (begin), (which, that) should (after, afterwards, hereafter) tarry, which was for, will, would, be yet.


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