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How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (2)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
    The old thread automatically closed is here: "How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled"
     
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  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Current poll results:

    View Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled

    I view all of it fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 39 24.38%

    I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 66 41.25%

    I view it as none of it is fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 22 13.75%

    I don't really know [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 15 9.38%

    Other [please explain] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 18 11.25%



    .
     
  3. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    1k replies. awesome!
    Yes God did blind a part of Israel. But I also see Satan being allowed to deceive the synagogue of Satan Jews during the 40 year "millennium" (AD30-70) The mother of harlots.

    In Rev.20, Satan gets bound so the nations could receive the gospel (AD30-70) Christ bound the strongman & taught the apostles how to do the same (whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven- Mt 16:19; Mt.18:18 )

    Then we see that after the "millennium" Satan is allowed to gather Gog & Magog against the true church.

    In Genesis 3:15, God said to the possessed snake that He would put enmity between his seed and her Seed.

    Satan had permission by God to deceive the minds of those in that "age"
    God had sent them a strong delusion that they would believe Satan's lies too.

    I interpret "the god of this age" differently, Boxer, because I see in scripture where the devil was given permission by God & had a role to play in God's Plan for mankind's salvation.

    Peace out :)
     
  4. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    "40 year "millennium" (AD30-70)"

    guffaw
     
  5. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    Yup and full Preterists can prove that Biblically & historically, whereas Futurists describe fiction & their imaginations & call it "interpretations" of scripture!

    Here. I hope you get excited to learn something Preterist from this study:

    A Forty Year Millennium? Is That Possible? - Eschatology.org
     
  6. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    Uh

    OK

    I guess at least it's out in the open that this is a "Full Preterist" view,

    so I guess it was good that New Dawn moved this thread to UT from wherever it was started, because this is the only forum on all of CF for Full Prets to wag their tails

    Now - let's see...

    the 12 disciples

    "would sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

    And I assume that this was JUST during the '40 year Millennium' ??

    because some of you Prets have been saying that after 70 AD

    "There were no tribes of Israel" or words to that effect - that genealogical records were destroyed in 70 AD - and a biblical entity of Israel or Judaism existed no longer

    so the 12 disciples had a "short reign" from their "thrones" over the 12 tribes -- and this reign --

    I guess --

    was not interrupted by the actual deaths of some of the disciples

    for at least James of Zebedee and Peter were put to death between the resurrection and 70 AD

    so this "reigning" by the 12 disciples could be done "DEAD OR ALIVE" so to speak - is that right?

    And then at 70 AD there was all of a sudden NOTHING TO RULE OVER from the 12 thrones - no more tribes meant anything --

    the "millennium" is over, and we get a New heaven and a new Earth (so to speak)

    all starting at 70 AD
     
  7. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    "Then we see that after the "millennium" Satan is allowed to gather Gog & Magog against the true church."

    And so the Gog/Magog incident happened at 70 AD also?
     
  8. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    Oh well, I think after a millennium of posts and 160 CF'ers voting - it is time - as Don Pardo used to say on jeapordy - to PAUSE TO COLLECT OUR THOUGHTS.



    I view all of it fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 39 24.38%

    As I said in "part 1" of this - ever since this thread was kicked into UT - there is no way to tell how many of the "all fulfilled ers" are Full Prets, Partial Prets or sumpn else



    I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 66 41.25%


    As I also said before, I WISH this choice had been worded differently - SPLIT UP between

    mostly

    and

    partly

    because it is so BROAD when both are in the same choice that Partial Prets/Amills/PreMills/PostMills and whatnot who might view 70 AD as a "partial fulfillment" or "the earlier of a dual/multiple" fulfillment might ALL land in this one -

    the most popular choice -- which is what I voted for



    I view it as none of it is fulfilled [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 22 13.75%

    This is kinda hard for me to accept anyone voting for - since the Temple was torn down -- although no one has ever addressed anything I posted concerning THE WAILING WALL -- whether it was actually a part of Temple Grounds - or was built later - or what - because obviously at THE WAILING WALL there are "stones standing on top of each other"


    I don't really know [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 15 9.38%

    Under 10 % say "they don't know". Interesting. That's NOT MANY with 'no opinion'



    Other [please explain] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] 18 11.25%

    I wish I could see all the EXPLANATIONS of the 11.25% -- but I guess some posted explanations and some did not.

    ...

    I now feel I am GLAD this is in UT -- I mean - I wanna hear what Full Prets think - I do not consider Full Pret a "heresy" - it is simply another eschatology -- it is not exactly CREEDAL - and Nicene Creed is sort of a standard of orthodoxy on CF

    but in the final analysis - Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed - as great as they are -- are just men's SUMMARIES of Scriptural Truth - not Scripture itself

    So I would rather discuss eschatology HERE in UT than

    in GT/Eschatology where the FULLS are forbidden --

    I personally caint tell no diffurnce between a partial pret and a full anyhow

    other "Partials" tear up Gary DeMar for supporting Fulls -- I cant see a dime's worth of difference, so I'm glad this thread is where it is

    because - heck - if we are going to talk about different eschatologies - lets talk about it ALL
    views

    yeah even the Fulls
    In this thread EVERYBODY could have voted - so I wanna hear EVERYBODY's
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  9. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    The reason why full Preterism is in UT is bc we don't accept what uninspired men interpreted about Jesus second coming.

    In the "creeds" they keep saying century after century that Christ "will come to judge the quick & the dead."

    This is an error by the church which has been perpetuated by tradition.

    The Bible speaks of Christ's imminent return. Nothing delayed!

    Yes, we are unorthodox & labeled heretics (who cares) bc we don't believe the uninspired men who wrote about the futuristic coming of the Lord.

    They created that "orthodox" tradition.

    I prefer the inspired words in the Bible to prove to me that Jesus came as promised!

    By the way, did anyone read my thread on "mello?"

    Here is the link: Mello
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    I am aware of what is said in Nicene and Apostle's Creed.

    The Nicene Creed was NEITHER forced down people's throats by Constantine under threat of torture, nor did it "drop down from heaven on a Golden Cord", but was the result of (GASP!) PEOPLE's thoughts on the core elements of the faith

    I remember a DONOVAN song called "Mello Yellow" but , no, have never looked at yer MELLO thread.

    will go look
     
  11. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    I have read

    "your thread" as you called it

    -- are you 'Donald Hochner', Coraline?

    It's not really a THREAD, but rather a huge list of verses to look up in Greek and see how MELLO is used.

    I can do that - I have a KJV/Textus Receptus based Interlinear as well as an NRSV Interlinear based on Nestle-Aland 27th

    It will not be done "shortly" or "soon" as you Prets define things, but I think I could do it

    by 2070 AD

    which - since being literal is being 'carnal' - would only be "2 days" as the Lord sees things

    2 days since the world ended in 70 AD

    I am a bit disturbed at the last paragraph in "your thread":

    -----------------------------------------

    The Reformed Futurists (Amillennialism, Postmillennialism or Historic Premillennialism) cannot defend their eschatological views with dispensationalism, Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, Arminianism, Judaism, Liberal Theologians and the cults because they have some holes.

    Once the Reformed churches come into the full Preterist view, they will be able to defend the truth against the members of these false religions, and they will be able expose them with their errors.

    Reformed Preterists can make a big difference, no matter what others will think.

    ----------------------------------------------

    "dispensationalism, Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, Arminianism"

    are FALSE RELIGIONS?

    Oh, really?

    FALSE RELIGIONS - as in - are those above named groups being

    called "Non-Christian"

    as per CF policies?


    How interesting.




    Why is this PRET goulash so frequently blended in with TULIP jazz?




    The paragraph is like saying

    "Come on, Reformed (Calvinists) - get with this FULL PRET view and let's make a difference!"

    whereas

    dispensationalists, Charismatics, Pentecostals, and Arminians

    are painted as FALSE RELIGIONS


    perhaps I will overlook the

    enormous glaring hubris

    of that paragraph and look at the instances of MELLO,

    but I dunno - don't get a warm fuzzy from this FULL PRET POT of insults
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  12. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    [FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]
    Yes, Anto9us, my thread wasn't called "mello" But it is in the archives here in UT : http://www.christianforums.com/t7750090/

    [/FONT]
    So, you deny &/or ignore that God said "soon" & "shortly" in the 1st century AD?
    From : The Preterist Bible & Commentaries- Bible Prophecy Fulfilled
    WHEN would this

    coming (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:3)
    of
    Jesus occur
    ? Revelation chapter one gives us the clearest of time
    lines (1:1, 3, 22:10), as does Matthew 24:34. The very first verse of
    the book tells us, “
    to show unto His servant’s things which must
    shortly
    come to pass
    (1:1).” S
    hortly
    (Greek,Tachos) is defined as,
    Quickness, speed
    . That’s it, no wiggle room to try to make this word
    mean something more than this.
    Tachos
    and its variations,
    Tachu,
    Tachista, Tachion, Tachinos, Tachoes,
    NEVER once suggests the
    idea that the subject being discussed is something that will happen a
    millennia or two later. The first and last chapter of Revelation has
    such clear time indicators. In 1:3, and 22:10, we see the word
    at
    hand
    (Eggus) used, “for the time is
    at hand
    ”. This word is defined as,
    near, imminent, soon to come to pass
    ”. Now, for “the doctrine of
    imminence”, did this word (Eggus) mean the same thing in the first
    century as it does in the twenty first century? Was it imminent for
    them, or for us?


    And these last paragraphs disturb you ? Remember the expression, "you can dish it out but cannot take it?" Does it occur to you that all "Futuristic" Eschatology insults my intelligence? When I go to church they NEVER preach about waiting for Jesus' return. They preach what is understood as Him being here in us & with us, His grace & peace & our trust in His provisions AND our obligations in the Faith.

    Anything else is misplaced hope! I do not long for what I have. And Jesus does not have to do more for me beyond His grace & salvation & eternal life. Thank you Lord!

    Yes, it takes courage for eschatological futurists to be reformed.

    Pride is a barrier for many set in their ways.

    But Jesus said the meek would inherit the earth.

    I believe those who seek the truth about "end times" will apply that meekness to opening their eyes & study the Preterist doctrine.

    Most full Preterists were once Futurists.

    As far as the "false religions" comment in the article, I wouldn't accuse the "Pentecostal churches" Just the hyoer -charismatic ones.:)

    IMHO, To preach living for the future makes me think of receiving the Holy Spirit & salvation in vain.

    I don't support such teaching !
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    How come the poll isn't showing on this thread now?


    .
     
  14. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    Litlelamb - may be the poll results are no longer showing because that all

    BELONGED TO A FORMER DISPENSATION which no longer applies once the THOUSAND POSTS have passed!


    lol

    sorry -- couldn't help it

    coraline - "if in this life only we have hope in Christ - we are of all men the most to be pitied"

    the Tachos stuff is pretty sticky - the mello stuff doesn't do that much for me - I have gone through most of 'em - haven't finished yet

    if the meek shall inherit the earth - find me SOMEWHERE ELSE!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  15. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    Who here doesn't have hope for eternal life in heaven Anto9us?
     
  16. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

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    hopefully none
     
  17. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    I never saw your post about the wailing wall. This is easy to answer. The foundational stones were NOT the subject of the prophecy. It was the "beautiful" stones that "adorned" the temple that were to be thrown down, every last one.

    5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” Luke 21:5

    The stones that adorned the temple were gold embedded. The Romans left not one stone standing. They plundered ALL the gold.
     
  18. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    You still have not dealt with the veil Cora. Paul said that it was the VEIL that blinded the minds of men in Moses' time, and that the "SAME VEIL" remains unlifted to this day (Paul's day, not our day).

    Satan had NOTHING to do with it. My translation remains unrefuted. Check out the church fathers. Several of them denied that Paul was saying that satan is a God. They said that it is God who blinded the minds of men and that the expression "of this age" refers to unbelievers.

    Translation:

    God (hotheos) has blinded the minds of those who of this age do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (hotheos), should shine on them.

    This is my LAST post on the subject as it is off topic.
     
  19. 101c

    101c Force of one

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    2 The Boxer,
    You still have not dealt with the veil Cora. Paul said that it was the VEIL that blinded the minds of men in Moses' time, and that the "SAME VEIL" remains unlifted to this day (Paul's day, not our day).
    Satan had NOTHING to do with it. My translation remains unrefuted. Check out the church fathers. Several of them denied that Paul was saying that satan is a God. They said that it is God who blinded the minds of men and that the expression "of this age" refers to unbelievers.

    It is always worthy in checking the scripture to see who's correct. Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. (your eyes is the key term). 11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed. 12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned".

    Romans 11:7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? ".


    the whole chapter is worth re-reading.


    be, blessed.






    "the truth hurts, but a lie will kill you"​
     
  20. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Also the western wall was part of the temple grounds but it was not part of the temple proper. The Temple faced east so the Wailing/Western wall is the second wall behind the temple in this picture. Beyond which you can see the hills.

    [​IMG]
     
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