How many times can one be regenerated?

How many times can one be regenerated?

  • As many of times until I feel His presence everyday

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know, I dont understand what born again really is

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

FreeGrace2

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I said:
"GG101, I wish you would face the reality of the fact that God uses words of a human PERMAMENT relationship (father and child) to explain the PERMANENT relationship between Himself and His children.

Since it is unarguable that the relationship between a human father and child is permanent, why would God use such a description of His own relationship with His own children?

Can you explain that?"

I'll take that as you CANNOT explain that. Which I already knew.
I'm not replying to the above because it just demonstrates how you do NOT understand 70% of what I post.
Another dodge. The Bible uses human relationships to define our spiritual relationship with God. That is a fact. If God did NOT mean to compare the PERMANENT human relationship between father and child, He certainly WOULD NOT HAVE used such wording to describe His relationship with His children.

Now, would He?

This might be my problem,,,but it seems everyone else understands my points except you.
Oh, I do understand them. But it's you who won't face the reality of what I've just said again above. It's you who refuse to face that reality.

I'm not really worried about you FG,,,but I AM worried about those that read this stufff about OSAS and actually might come to believe it.
It's biblical which I've shown.

BECAUSE IT IS NOT BIBLICAL and I've shown you many times why it is not.
You have NOT done that at all. You won't even discuss the reality that God uses terms of a PERMAMENT human relationship to describe His PERMANENT relationship with His own children.

If the believer's relationship with God isn't permanent, but conditional on things AFTER receiving salvation, then WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD HE USE A HUMAN PERMANENT RELATIONSHIP to describe His relationship with His children.

YOU, OTOH, only post a couple of passages that can be disproven in a minute of writing.
When and where have you "disproven" anything that I've posted???

If you ever come up with something new...reply -
otherwise, what's the use?
No reply necessary.
I don't need anything "new". As Solomon once said, "there is nothing new under the sun". Maybe you didn't read what he wrote.

The FACT remains that God's relationship to His children (believers) is JUST AS PERMANENT as YOUR relationship to your father.

And you certainly can't disprove that.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FreeGrace2 said:
btw, Rom 4:16 -Therefore, the promise (of salvation) comes by faith, so that it (salvation) may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
Read it again:
I don't need to. I'm very familiar with it.

Then answer this:

1. How does salvation come?
By faith.

2. To whom is it guaranteed?
To those who believe.

I think you need to read it again and again. Until the word "guarantees" actually sinks in.

here's the point of the verse: salvation is GUARANTEED to all Abraham's offspring. That means everyone who "has the faith of Abraham".

Do you think Abraham put his faith in the Messiah?

You'd better believe it, because when Jesus described the afterlife experience of Lazarus and the rich man, we find Abraham comforting Lazarus in Paradise.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Well, now I'm confused and not sure at all about your statement about your "serious about English" comment.

So, please enlighten me.
Syntax is how a sentence is put together...the parts of a sentence.
If you put a sentence together wrong,,,it sounds funny.

It also means that sentences have to make sense.
You answer without including what you're responding to in your reply.
Plus, your answers are very long.
So a person has to scroll back up to see what you're answering to.
It's not possible, timewise, to do this when a post is long.


Example:
You might say something like:
"you said it, not me".

WHAT did I say? That should be mentioned.

Those one liners will get you no laughs.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I said:
"GG101, I wish you would face the reality of the fact that God uses words of a human PERMAMENT relationship (father and child) to explain the PERMANENT relationship between Himself and His children.

Since it is unarguable that the relationship between a human father and child is permanent, why would God use such a description of His own relationship with His own children?

Can you explain that?"

I'll take that as you CANNOT explain that. Which I already knew.

Another dodge. The Bible uses human relationships to define our spiritual relationship with God. That is a fact. If God did NOT mean to compare the PERMANENT human relationship between father and child, He certainly WOULD NOT HAVE used such wording to describe His relationship with His children.

Now, would He?


Oh, I do understand them. But it's you who won't face the reality of what I've just said again above. It's you who refuse to face that reality.


It's biblical which I've shown.


You have NOT done that at all. You won't even discuss the reality that God uses terms of a PERMAMENT human relationship to describe His PERMANENT relationship with His own children.

If the believer's relationship with God isn't permanent, but conditional on things AFTER receiving salvation, then WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD HE USE A HUMAN PERMANENT RELATIONSHIP to describe His relationship with His children.


When and where have you "disproven" anything that I've posted???


I don't need anything "new". As Solomon once said, "there is nothing new under the sun". Maybe you didn't read what he wrote.

The FACT remains that God's relationship to His children (believers) is JUST AS PERMANENT as YOUR relationship to your father.

And you certainly can't disprove that.
You could believe all of the above regarding the relationship between a human father and a son and God and HIS sons....

Or you could start believing scripture.
 
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GodsGrace101

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FreeGrace2 said:
btw, Rom 4:16 -Therefore, the promise (of salvation) comes by faith, so that it (salvation) may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

I don't need to. I'm very familiar with it.


By faith.


To those who believe.

I think you need to read it again and again. Until the word "guarantees" actually sinks in.

here's the point of the verse: salvation is GUARANTEED to all Abraham's offspring. That means everyone who "has the faith of Abraham".

Do you think Abraham put his faith in the Messiah?

You'd better believe it, because when Jesus described the afterlife experience of Lazarus and the rich man, we find Abraham comforting Lazarus in Paradise.
Rom 4:16 -Therefore, the promise (of salvation) comes by faith, so that it (salvation) may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Does one that falls away have the faith of Abraham?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Syntax is how a sentence is put together...the parts of a sentence.
If you put a sentence together wrong,,,it sounds funny.
OK, point out one of my wrong sentences, if you would.


It also means that sentences have to make sense.
Well, the problem can be on the recipient's side of things.

You answer without including what you're responding to in your reply.
That is context, not syntax, as you thought.

Plus, your answers are very long.
My answers are explanations to your questions.

So a person has to scroll back up to see what you're answering to.
It's not possible, timewise, to do this when a post is long.
Do what you can.

Example:
You might say something like:
"you said it, not me".

WHAT did I say? That should be mentioned.

Those one liners will get you no laughs.
lol. I give way more context than most posters. Ever notice how often I begin with a quote from the poster BEFORE I respond??

That's context, not syntax.
 
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FreeGrace2

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You could believe all of the above regarding the relationship between a human father and a son and God and HIS sons....

Or you could start believing scripture.
This is hardly an answer to my question of WHY God would use human relationships to describe His relationship to His children. Both of which are PERMAMENT.

And you cannot prove otherwise.

Oh, one tactic is to misread verses. Another is to force conditional clauses into verses that have NONE.

Arminians know all about that.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Rom 4:16 -Therefore, the promise (of salvation) comes by faith, so that it (salvation) may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Does one that falls away have the faith of Abraham?
Here is what Jesus SAID:

I give them (believers) eternal life and they shall never perish.

Here is what Jesus NEVER said:

I give them eternal life and as long as they don't fall away, they shall never perish.

The second sentence, the one that Jesus NEVER said contains a conditional clause, in red words.

I gave you the example to demonstrate how to recognize a sentence that contains a conditional clause.

John 10:28 contains NO (ZERO) conditional clauses. Such clauses exist only in the minds of Arminians who misread that verse.

Now, to answer your question, once having the faith of Abraham, their salvation is GUARANTEED. So it doesn't matter what they currently have.

But one must understand the meaning of "guaranteed" to know that.

Rom 4:16 isn't about what one believes at death. It's about the first moment one "has the faith of Abraham".

But you refuse to believe that. But that's the natural reading of the verse.

Upon the "faith of Abraham", that person is GUARANTEED salvation. That is exactly the meaning of the verse.

But bias has a strange way of distorting words and meanings, so that comprehension becomes impossible for the biased.

One of the errors of Arminianism is thinking that it's one's status at the end of their life that determines their eternal destiny.

That is wrong. Their eternal destiny was settled the moment they "have the faith of Abraham".

What I like about the phrase "faith of Abraham" is that Arminians can't twist and pervert the meaning of the present tense. Because "faith" is a noun. It has no tense.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Here is what Jesus SAID:

I give them (believers) eternal life and they shall never perish.

Here is what Jesus NEVER said:

I give them eternal life and as long as they don't fall away, they shall never perish.

The second sentence, the one that Jesus NEVER said contains a conditional clause, in red words.

I gave you the example to demonstrate how to recognize a sentence that contains a conditional clause.

John 10:28 contains NO (ZERO) conditional clauses. Such clauses exist only in the minds of Arminians who misread that verse.

Now, to answer your question, once having the faith of Abraham, their salvation is GUARANTEED. So it doesn't matter what they currently have.

But one must understand the meaning of "guaranteed" to know that.

Rom 4:16 isn't about what one believes at death. It's about the first moment one "has the faith of Abraham".

But you refuse to believe that. But that's the natural reading of the verse.

Upon the "faith of Abraham", that person is GUARANTEED salvation. That is exactly the meaning of the verse.

But bias has a strange way of distorting words and meanings, so that comprehension becomes impossible for the biased.

One of the errors of Arminianism is thinking that it's one's status at the end of their life that determines their eternal destiny.

That is wrong. Their eternal destiny was settled the moment they "have the faith of Abraham".

What I like about the phrase "faith of Abraham" is that Arminians can't twist and pervert the meaning of the present tense. Because "faith" is a noun. It has no tense.
Of course you know I don't agree with anything you've said.
And you bring up the same ole' stuff.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith
for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


A salvation...ready to be revealed in the last time...(at the end)
which is imperishable and will not fade away.
It is RESERVED IN HEAVEN for us who are PROTECTED BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.

It's always salvation by faith.
No faith......no salvation.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Of course you know I don't agree with anything you've said.
How sad, because I've been quoting Scripture all the while.

And you bring up the same ole' stuff.
Yeah, I know that Scripture seems to bother you a lot; at least those verses that teach what you refuse to believe.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith
for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


A salvation...ready to be revealed in the last time...(at the end)
which is imperishable and will not fade away.
It is RESERVED IN HEAVEN for us who are PROTECTED BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.

It's always salvation by faith.
No faith......no salvation.
I will remind you once again that the ONLY people who will be condemned are those who "have not believed", which means those who NEVER believed.

John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12

But you don't like the verses that I quote, cite, or mention.

But I will not apologize for what I do. Quoting Scripture is what I do.

Since only those who NEVER believed will be condemned, your opinions about "used to believe" cannot be true. Or the Bible would be contradictory.

And that would mean "game over" and we are to be pitied more than all men.
 
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GodsGrace101

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How sad, because I've been quoting Scripture all the while.


Yeah, I know that Scripture seems to bother you a lot; at least those verses that teach what you refuse to believe.


I will remind you once again that the ONLY people who will be condemned are those who "have not believed", which means those who NEVER believed.

John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12

But you don't like the verses that I quote, cite, or mention.

But I will not apologize for what I do. Quoting Scripture is what I do.

Since only those who NEVER believed will be condemned, your opinions about "used to believe" cannot be true. Or the Bible would be contradictory.

And that would mean "game over" and we are to be pitied more than all men.
We are protected by God THROUGH FAITH.

No Faith....No Protection

Faith is the key to salvation.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


The above is scripture FG.
 
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FreeGrace2

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We are protected by God THROUGH FAITH.
Of course we are. But you continue to fail to realize that from the MOMENT a person has faith in Christ, they are protected forever.

No Faith....No Protection
Amen!

Faith is the key to salvation.
From the MOMENT one has faith. Your fallacy is to believe that God quits saving if the believer quits believing.

So, let's just solve this NOW (present tense). Show me the single BEST verse that actually tells us that those who have ceased to believe are lost (any kind of wording, but the message must be clear). How's that for freedom!

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


The above is scripture FG.
It sure is, GG101. But why have you rejected SO MUCH Scripture that I have shared with you?

The word "faith" in v.5 is a noun. So you can't hide behind your faulty understanding of the present tense, since nouns don't have any tenses.

How about finally addressing my explanation of John 10:28, the verse I know really bugs you.

"I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

The red words are what Christ does for believers.
The blue words are the result of being given eternal life.

Now, explain to me how my explanation of the colored words is wrong. Can you do that?

Can you prove that the red words AREN'T what Christ does for believers?
Can you prove that the blue words AREN'T the result of what Christ does for believer?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Of course we are. But you continue to fail to realize that from the MOMENT a person has faith in Christ, they are protected forever.


Amen!


From the MOMENT one has faith. Your fallacy is to believe that God quits saving if the believer quits believing.

So, let's just solve this NOW (present tense). Show me the single BEST verse that actually tells us that those who have ceased to believe are lost (any kind of wording, but the message must be clear). How's that for freedom!


It sure is, GG101. But why have you rejected SO MUCH Scripture that I have shared with you?

The word "faith" in v.5 is a noun. So you can't hide behind your faulty understanding of the present tense, since nouns don't have any tenses.

How about finally addressing my explanation of John 10:28, the verse I know really bugs you.

"I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

The red words are what Christ does for believers.
The blue words are the result of being given eternal life.

Now, explain to me how my explanation of the colored words is wrong. Can you do that?

Can you prove that the red words AREN'T what Christ does for believers?
Can you prove that the blue words AREN'T the result of what Christ does for believer?

You said:
The word "faith" in v.5 is a noun. So you can't hide behind your faulty understanding of the present tense, since nouns don't have any tenses.

Faith is a noun. Good.
One must have faith to be under the protection of God.
(have faith is present tense)

Again:

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


"reserved in heaven for you WHO ARE PROTECTED BY THE POWER OF GOD
THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time."

John 10:27-28
verse 28 I GIVE THESE ETERNAL LIFE AND THEY SHALL NOT PERISH....

WHO are THESE?

verse 27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND THEY FOLLOW ME...
 
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FreeGrace2

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You said:
The word "faith" in v.5 is a noun. So you can't hide behind your faulty understanding of the present tense, since nouns don't have any tenses.

Faith is a noun. Good.
One must have faith to be under the protection of God.
(have faith is present tense)

Again:

1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


"reserved in heaven for you WHO ARE PROTECTED BY THE POWER OF GOD
THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time."

John 10:27-28
verse 28 I GIVE THESE ETERNAL LIFE AND THEY SHALL NOT PERISH....

WHO are THESE?

verse 27 MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND THEY FOLLOW ME...
Seriously?

I have asked for the EVIDENCE of language that expresses a conditional clause in either verse.

As I read v.27, I see that Jesus described what His sheep either DO or OUGHT TO DO.

What I DON'T read is ANY KIND of conditonal clause expressed in either verse.

So, you've got a huge problem. Arminians (you included) keep reading these mysterious conditional clauses into verses that DON'T contain them.

So, where's the magic? How come you see conditional clauses that don't exist?

v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. That's all.

v.28 is a statement about the results of being given eternal life.

What you've posted doesn't answer my post or explain the red words and blue words of v.28.

In fact, John 10:27,28 isn't even related to 1 Pet 1:3-5.

So, can you disprove my claim about the red and blue words of v.28?

Either I'm right about v.28 or I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, why haven't you explained the color coded words with an explanation of WHY I'm wrong about what the red and blue words mean?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Seriously?

I have asked for the EVIDENCE of language that expresses a conditional clause in either verse.

As I read v.27, I see that Jesus described what His sheep either DO or OUGHT TO DO.

What I DON'T read is ANY KIND of conditonal clause expressed in either verse.

So, you've got a huge problem. Arminians (you included) keep reading these mysterious conditional clauses into verses that DON'T contain them.

So, where's the magic? How come you see conditional clauses that don't exist?

v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. That's all.

v.28 is a statement about the results of being given eternal life.

What you've posted doesn't answer my post or explain the red words and blue words of v.28.

In fact, John 10:27,28 isn't even related to 1 Pet 1:3-5.

So, can you disprove my claim about the red and blue words of v.28?

Either I'm right about v.28 or I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, why haven't you explained the color coded words with an explanation of WHY I'm wrong about what the red and blue words mean?
1 Peter 1:3-5 is a NEW verse that I threw out there for you to explain.
Why....
Because all you talk about is John 10:27-28

If Jesus is saying what someone must DO in verse 27....
THAT IS A CONDITION for verse 28 to have effect.

A condition sets something you must do or not do in order for the desired effect to take place. Verse 27 is the condition for verse 28.

How about exegeting 1 Peter 3:5
WE ARE PROTECTED BY GOD'S POWER
THROUGH FAITH...

Just like we're born again by God's power
BY FAITH in Ephesians 2:8

FAITH IS THE KEY.
 
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FreeGrace2

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1 Peter 1:3-5 is a NEW verse that I threw out there for you to explain.
Why....
Because all you talk about is John 10:27-28
And this was my response to your "new" verse:
"In fact, John 10:27,28 isn't even related to 1 Pet 1:3-5. "

So, what's your point about 1 pet 1:3-5?

If Jesus is saying what someone must DO in verse 27....
THAT IS A CONDITION for verse 28 to have effect.
Sure. I agree. So where is the "MUST DO" in v.27? I do not see it anywhere in either verse. This is why I have accused you of MAKING UP conditional clauses, because they AREN'T THERE.

A condition sets something you must do or not do in order for the desired effect to take place. Verse 27 is the condition for verse 28.
That is what you HAVEN'T PROVEN YET.

You just said a condition is about "what someone must DO". So where is this alleged "must do" phraseology that you speak of?

It isn't there. What probably occurred is that you confused my view that v.27 is a policy statement, which is a statement about what someone OUGHT to do. Is that what has confused you?

Please google a "policy statement". It's simply a statement about what someone in the organization should do. It has NOTHING TO DO with a condition, unless a condition is expressed.

For example, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." This is obviously a description of what His sheep DO. There is NOTHING about any conditions that result in consequences. Nothing.

If Jesus was making a policy statement, by meaning "what they OUGHT to do", it STILL ISN'T A CONDITIONAL CLAUSE FOR ANYTHING THAT FOLLOWS.

A conditional clause is expressed several ways.
"as long as"
"if"
"or else"
"unless"

From Conditional clauses | Learning English Grammar | Collins Education:

There are three main types of conditional sentence.

Type 1The main clause uses will, can, may, or might + the base form of a main verb. The if-clause uses the present simple tense.

Type 1 sentences refer to the future. They suggest that the action in the main clause is quite likely to happen.
  • They will not finish their homework unless they start now.
  • If you book early, you will get a seat.
Type 2 The main clause uses would, could, or might + the base form of a main verb. The if-clause uses the past simple tense.

Type 2 sentences refer to an imaginary situation. They imply that the action in the if-clause will probably not happen.
  • If I won the lottery, I would buy a house in France.
    (…but I don’t think I’ll win the lottery.)
  • If you didn’t spend all your money on lottery tickets, you could afford a holiday.
    (…but you do spend all your money on lottery tickets.)
Type 3 The main clause uses would, could, or might + have + the past participle of a main verb. The if-clause uses the past perfect tense.

In Type 3 sentences the speaker is looking back from the present to a past time and event. The speaker is talking about what might have happened but did not, either because the wrong thing was done or because nothing was done. This type of sentence is used when making excuses, showing regret, blaming, or giving an explanation.Conditional clauses can also be used to talk about consequences, or to give an opinion about a situation in the following ways:
  • The if-clause uses the present simple tense and the main clause uses the present simple tense. This is used to refer to universal truths.
  • If you heat water to 100°C, it boils.
  • Plants die if they don’t get enough water.
  • The if-clause uses the present simple tense and the main clause is in the imperative. This is used to give advice or orders for particular situations or sets of circumstances.
  • If the alarm goes off, make your way outside to the car park.
  • If a red light shows here, switch off the machine.
Since you think John 10:27 contains a conditional clause, please identify which of the 3 types it is.

How about exegeting 1 Peter 3:5
WE ARE PROTECTED BY GOD'S POWER
THROUGH FAITH...
I will correct your typo:
1 Pet 1:5 - who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Red words refer to those who have believed.
Blue words refers to the fact that they are shielded by God's power.
Green words refer to eternity. That's how long God's power shields those who have believed.

Just like we're born again by God's power
BY FAITH in Ephesians 2:8
Right. And the regeneration occurs WHEN one "has faith".

FAITH IS THE KEY.
The key that you are refusing to accept is that the action of initial belief changes everything:

1. regeneration, born again, new birth (John 3:7)
2. new creation (2 Cor 5:17)
3. forgiven (Acts 10:43)
4. justified (Rom 5:1)
5. will not be condemned (John 3:18, 5:24, 2 Thess 2:12)
6. possesses eternal life (John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28)

So, to refute my position, you MUST provide at least 1 verse that refutes each of my 6 points. Basically saying that these things can be revoked, etc, for specific reasons.
 
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GodsGrace101

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And this was my response to your "new" verse:
"In fact, John 10:27,28 isn't even related to 1 Pet 1:3-5. "

So, what's your point about 1 pet 1:3-5?


Sure. I agree. So where is the "MUST DO" in v.27? I do not see it anywhere in either verse. This is why I have accused you of MAKING UP conditional clauses, because they AREN'T THERE.


That is what you HAVEN'T PROVEN YET.

You just said a condition is about "what someone must DO". So where is this alleged "must do" phraseology that you speak of?

It isn't there. What probably occurred is that you confused my view that v.27 is a policy statement, which is a statement about what someone OUGHT to do. Is that what has confused you?

Please google a "policy statement". It's simply a statement about what someone in the organization should do. It has NOTHING TO DO with a condition, unless a condition is expressed.

For example, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." This is obviously a description of what His sheep DO. There is NOTHING about any conditions that result in consequences. Nothing.

If Jesus was making a policy statement, by meaning "what they OUGHT to do", it STILL ISN'T A CONDITIONAL CLAUSE FOR ANYTHING THAT FOLLOWS.

A conditional clause is expressed several ways.
"as long as"
"if"
"or else"
"unless"

From Conditional clauses | Learning English Grammar | Collins Education:

There are three main types of conditional sentence.

Type 1The main clause uses will, can, may, or might + the base form of a main verb. The if-clause uses the present simple tense.

Type 1 sentences refer to the future. They suggest that the action in the main clause is quite likely to happen.
  • They will not finish their homework unless they start now.
  • If you book early, you will get a seat.
Type 2 The main clause uses would, could, or might + the base form of a main verb. The if-clause uses the past simple tense.

Type 2 sentences refer to an imaginary situation. They imply that the action in the if-clause will probably not happen.
  • If I won the lottery, I would buy a house in France.
    (…but I don’t think I’ll win the lottery.)
  • If you didn’t spend all your money on lottery tickets, you could afford a holiday.
    (…but you do spend all your money on lottery tickets.)
Type 3 The main clause uses would, could, or might + have + the past participle of a main verb. The if-clause uses the past perfect tense.

In Type 3 sentences the speaker is looking back from the present to a past time and event. The speaker is talking about what might have happened but did not, either because the wrong thing was done or because nothing was done. This type of sentence is used when making excuses, showing regret, blaming, or giving an explanation.Conditional clauses can also be used to talk about consequences, or to give an opinion about a situation in the following ways:
  • The if-clause uses the present simple tense and the main clause uses the present simple tense. This is used to refer to universal truths.
  • If you heat water to 100°C, it boils.
  • Plants die if they don’t get enough water.
  • The if-clause uses the present simple tense and the main clause is in the imperative. This is used to give advice or orders for particular situations or sets of circumstances.
  • If the alarm goes off, make your way outside to the car park.
  • If a red light shows here, switch off the machine.
Since you think John 10:27 contains a conditional clause, please identify which of the 3 types it is.


I will correct your typo:
1 Pet 1:5 - who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Red words refer to those who have believed.
Blue words refers to the fact that they are shielded by God's power.
Green words refer to eternity. That's how long God's power shields those who have believed.


Right. And the regeneration occurs WHEN one "has faith".


The key that you are refusing to accept is that the action of initial belief changes everything:

1. regeneration, born again, new birth (John 3:7)
2. new creation (2 Cor 5:17)
3. forgiven (Acts 10:43)
4. justified (Rom 5:1)
5. will not be condemned (John 3:18, 5:24, 2 Thess 2:12)
6. possesses eternal life (John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28)

So, to refute my position, you MUST provide at least 1 verse that refutes each of my 6 points. Basically saying that these things can be revoked, etc, for specific reasons.
To have eternal life, one must HEAR THE VOICE of the Shepherd, Jesus.
HEAR THE VOICE is the condition.

If they DO NOT HEAR the voice of Jesus because they have returned to a life of sin and have abandoned God....then there is no eternal life because the condition in verse 27 has been ignored.

What you say here is exactly what I've been saying.
I will correct your typo:
1 Pet 1:5 - who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are shielded (protected) by God's power THROUGH FAITH.

FAITH IS THE KEY.
 
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FreeGrace2

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To have eternal life, one must HEAR THE VOICE of the Shepherd, Jesus.
HEAR THE VOICE is the condition.
I've already asked you for the EXACT WORDS that create the "condition" that you claim is present in v.27. Where is it??

If they DO NOT HEAR the voice of Jesus because they have returned to a life of sin and have abandoned God....
Just look at the FIRST word in your sentence...the word "if". That's what makes a condition. Where do you find ANY "ifs" in v.27 or v.28?

then there is no eternal life because the condition in verse 27 has been ignored.
What "condition"? You are just seeing things.

What you say here is exactly what I've been saying.
I will correct your typo:
1 Pet 1:5 - who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are shielded (protected) by God's power THROUGH FAITH.

FAITH IS THE KEY.
You need to read what else I posted.

This is how I ended my post:

"The key that you are refusing to accept is that the action of initial belief changes everything:

1. regeneration, born again, new birth (John 3:7)
2. new creation (2 Cor 5:17)
3. forgiven (Acts 10:43)
4. justified (Rom 5:1)
5. will not be condemned (John 3:18, 5:24, 2 Thess 2:12)
6. possesses eternal life (John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28)

So, to refute my position, you MUST provide at least 1 verse that refutes each of my 6 points. Basically saying that these things can be revoked, etc, for specific reasons."

The fact that you didn't bother to address or even acknowledge these 6 FACTS, by showing that any of them can be removed, only proves that your view is unbiblical.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I've already asked you for the EXACT WORDS that create the "condition" that you claim is present in v.27. Where is it??


Just look at the FIRST word in your sentence...the word "if". That's what makes a condition. Where do you find ANY "ifs" in v.27 or v.28?


What "condition"? You are just seeing things.


You need to read what else I posted.

This is how I ended my post:

"The key that you are refusing to accept is that the action of initial belief changes everything:

1. regeneration, born again, new birth (John 3:7)
2. new creation (2 Cor 5:17)
3. forgiven (Acts 10:43)
4. justified (Rom 5:1)
5. will not be condemned (John 3:18, 5:24, 2 Thess 2:12)
6. possesses eternal life (John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28)

So, to refute my position, you MUST provide at least 1 verse that refutes each of my 6 points. Basically saying that these things can be revoked, etc, for specific reasons."

The fact that you didn't bother to address or even acknowledge these 6 FACTS, by showing that any of them can be removed, only proves that your view is unbiblical.
No more time FG.
Must move on.

MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE
AND I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIVE

Jesus' sheep can hear His voice
He gives eternal life to HIS SHEEP, to those that HEAR HIS VOICE.
Those that hear His voice obey Him and follow Him.

If one abandons God/Jesus,,,,
he no longer hears Jesus' voice
so they are no longer His sheep.

As to your list of 1 - 6...I agree with it.
No problem for me.
If one is saved he is all those things listed.
If one is NOT saved or abandons God after salvation..
he ends up in the same boat -- UNSAVED.
 
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FreeGrace2

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No more time FG.
Must move on.
Yep. When there is no defense.

MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE
AND I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIVE

Jesus' sheep can hear His voice
And it's NOT a condition for getting eternal life.

He gives eternal life to HIS SHEEP, to those that HEAR HIS VOICE.
You have stated this as if there may be sheep that are deaf or something. And don't hear His voice. Nice try, but no cigar.

Those that hear His voice obey Him and follow Him.
OK, not just try to turn this into some kind of condition that leads to eternal life, or never perishing.

If one abandons God/Jesus,,,,
he no longer hears Jesus' voice
so they are no longer His sheep.
There is NO way to come to this conclusion from either v.27 or v.28. You are just fantasizing.

[QUOE]As to your list of 1 - 6...I agree with it.
No problem for me.
If one is saved he is all those things listed.
If one is NOT saved or abandons God after salvation..
he ends up in the same boat -- UNSAVED.[/QUOTE]
Yet, you cannot prove your theory, for that's all it is. A claim without any evidence.

My point about the 6 points is that NONE of them are reversible. My challenge to you was to provide verses that teach that these 6 things can be reversed.

But you can't, can you. And that's my point.

You teach what the Bible doesn't teach. How is that "biblical"? It isn't.
 
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