How many mutations to get Y from X?

[tas8831]

Creationist electrical engineer Walter ReMine wrote:

Take an ape-like creature from 10 million years ago, substitute a maximum of 500,000 selectively
significant nucleotides and you would have a poet philosopher?... Is this enough to account for the significantly improved skulls, jaws, teeth, feet, speech, upright posture, abstract thought, and appreciation of music, to name just a few?
- The Biotic Message, p. 209​

Clearly, ReMine thinks that 500,000 beneficial mutations is just not enough to get a human from an apelike ancestor.
He never says why he thinks this, but it has become a mantra among creationists that even if evolution were true, there are not enough beneficial mutations to explain us evolving from an apelike ancestor.

So... the challenge -

How many mutations would it have taken to get a human pelvis (left) from an Australopithecine pelvis (right)?

Show your work please.

I was once told by a creationist computer tech that it must be 1 million! He could not explain why, he just "knew" it.
And yet... We actually know that a single mutation can produce this kind of pelvis:

from normal human phenotype parent... so, I'm thinking a million is maybe ~999,990 too many...

 

[Shemjaza]

Aww. I was hoping for an education on how the original Y/X Chromosome structure developed from whatever Synapsids used to distinguish sex and compartmentalise their genetic structure.

Incidentally, how much problems do people with those mutated hips have with walking/standing?

 

[tas8831]

Aww. I was hoping for an education on how the original Y/X Chromosome structure developed from whatever Synapsids used to distinguish sex and compartmentalise their genetic structure.

Ha! You know, the implication of the title never crossed my mind...

Incidentally, how much problems do people with those mutated hips have with walking/standing?

Maybe a little?

 

[BobRyan]

Creationist electrical engineer Walter ReMine wrote:

Take an ape-like creature from 10 million years ago, substitute a maximum of 500,000 selectively
significant nucleotides and you would have a poet philosopher?... Is this enough to account for the significantly improved skulls, jaws, teeth, feet, speech, upright posture, abstract thought, and appreciation of music, to name just a few?
- The Biotic Message, p. 209​

Clearly, ReMine thinks that 500,000 beneficial mutations is just not enough to get a human from an apelike ancestor.
He never says why he thinks this, but it has become a mantra among creationists that even if evolution were true, there are not enough beneficial mutations to explain us evolving from an apelike ancestor.

So... the challenge -

How many mutations would it have taken to get a human pelvis (left) from an Australopithecine pelvis (right)?

Show your work please.

I was once told by a creationist computer tech that it must be 1 million! He could not explain why, he just "knew" it.
And yet... We actually know that a single mutation can produce this kind of pelvis:

from normal human phenotype parent... so, I'm thinking a million is maybe ~999,990 too many...

I see these "Atheist vs Creationist" threads come up from time to time. And I am glad they position it that way on CF, because I have seen others do that as well.

 

[pitabread]

I see these "Atheist vs Creationist" threads come up from time to time. And I am glad they position it that way on CF, because I have seen others do that as well.

This isn't an atheist versus creationist thread though?

(Unless you're falsely equating evolution with atheism.)

 

[SkyWriting]

Creationist electrical engineer Walter ReMine wrote:

Take an ape-like creature from 10 million years ago, substitute a maximum of 500,000 selectively
significant nucleotides and you would have a poet philosopher?... Is this enough to account for the significantly improved skulls, jaws, teeth, feet, speech, upright posture, abstract thought, and appreciation of music, to name just a few?
- The Biotic Message, p. 209​

Clearly, ReMine thinks that 500,000 beneficial mutations is just not enough to get a human from an apelike ancestor.
He never says why he thinks this, but it has become a mantra among creationists that even if evolution were true, there are not enough beneficial mutations to explain us evolving from an apelike ancestor.

So... the challenge -

How many mutations would it have taken to get a human pelvis (left) from an Australopithecine pelvis (right)?

Show your work please.

I was once told by a creationist computer tech that it must be 1 million! He could not explain why, he just "knew" it.
And yet... We actually know that a single mutation can produce this kind of pelvis:

from normal human phenotype parent... so, I'm thinking a million is maybe ~999,990 too many...

There are gene switches that can be switched "on" or "off".
The results can be dramatic in just a few generations.
NOVA: What Darwin Never Knew | Switching Genes On and Off

 

[tas8831]

I see these "Atheist vs Creationist" threads come up from time to time. And I am glad they position it that way on CF, because I have seen others do that as well.

So you cannot address the OP, either. Got it.
Which is interesting - creationists with engineering backgrounds usually pretend they have ALL the answers on issues like this.

 

[tas8831]

There are gene switches that can be switched "on" or "off".
The results can be dramatic in just a few generations.
NOVA: What Darwin Never Knew | Switching Genes On and Off

Indeed. Thanks for damaging the creationist position.

 

[SkyWriting]

Indeed. Thanks for damaging the creationist position.

I am a creationist, so....I don't feel damaged.

 

[tas8831]

I am a creationist, so....I don't feel damaged.

That is probably because you don't understand the implication of what you shared. Pretty common.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is probably because you don't understand the implication of what you shared. Pretty common.

I don't post for the group. Or any group.

 

[pacomascarot]

Creationist electrical engineer Walter ReMine wrote:

Take an ape-like creature from 10 million years ago, substitute a maximum of 500,000 selectively
significant nucleotides and you would have a poet philosopher?... Is this enough to account for the significantly improved skulls, jaws, teeth, feet, speech, upright posture, abstract thought, and appreciation of music, to name just a few?
- The Biotic Message, p. 209​

Clearly, ReMine thinks that 500,000 beneficial mutations is just not enough to get a human from an apelike ancestor.
He never says why he thinks this, but it has become a mantra among creationists that even if evolution were true, there are not enough beneficial mutations to explain us evolving from an apelike ancestor.

So... the challenge -

How many mutations would it have taken to get a human pelvis (left) from an Australopithecine pelvis (right)?

Show your work please.

I was once told by a creationist computer tech that it must be 1 million! He could not explain why, he just "knew" it.
And yet... We actually know that a single mutation can produce this kind of pelvis:

from normal human phenotype parent... so, I'm thinking a million is maybe ~999,990 too many...

The answer is 73.

No need to show my work, it's obvious.

 

[renniks]

Creationist electrical engineer Walter ReMine wrote:

Take an ape-like creature from 10 million years ago, substitute a maximum of 500,000 selectively
significant nucleotides and you would have a poet philosopher?... Is this enough to account for the significantly improved skulls, jaws, teeth, feet, speech, upright posture, abstract thought, and appreciation of music, to name just a few?
- The Biotic Message, p. 209​

Clearly, ReMine thinks that 500,000 beneficial mutations is just not enough to get a human from an apelike ancestor.
He never says why he thinks this, but it has become a mantra among creationists that even if evolution were true, there are not enough beneficial mutations to explain us evolving from an apelike ancestor.

So... the challenge -

How many mutations would it have taken to get a human pelvis (left) from an Australopithecine pelvis (right)?

Show your work please.

I was once told by a creationist computer tech that it must be 1 million! He could not explain why, he just "knew" it.
And yet... We actually know that a single mutation can produce this kind of pelvis:

from normal human phenotype parent... so, I'm thinking a million is maybe ~999,990 too many...

So, we are nothing but a pelvis?

 

[pacomascarot]

So, we are nothing but a pelvis?

I am. My actual name IRL is Pelvis Resley

 

[tas8831]

I don't post for the group. Or any group.

Great reply.
Irrelevant, but super awesome.

 

[tas8831]

So, we are nothing but a pelvis?

Inability to address the OP noted.
Concession accepted.

 

[renniks]

Inability to address the OP noted.
Concession accepted.

No concessions here. Just amusement.

 

[tas8831]

No concessions here. Just amusement.

Amused that you can offer nothing of any relevance or value? You must be so proud.
Weird way of admitting that you cannot address the topic, but cool.

 

[renniks]

Amused that you can offer nothing of any relevance or value? You must be so proud.
Weird way of admitting that you cannot address the topic, but cool.

Passive agression isn't making you convincing.

 

[Shemjaza]

So, we are nothing but a pelvis?

I was an example of functional changes from a very limited number of mutations.