How Many Books Are in Your Bible? 66? 73? 81?

[Lulav]

The Apocrypha is un-scriptural and in some case Occultic.

Allow me to give you just one example.

Enoch 40:9...…...
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, or Raphael let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That my dear friends is what the Bible calls blasphemy!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them according to 1st Peter 1:18-19; therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.

There are examples just like this one in ALL of the Apochraphael books so IMO they ALL should be rejected.

I think you misunderstand. With the example you gave, it needs to be read in historical context. This was written before there was a Jesus. And it doesn't say they are a mediator, that again is another misunderstanding of the passage.

"Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone."​

If that were true then there is no hope for anyone before he came. And most believe that isn't the truth. Repentance is not a new thing when Jesus arrived, it had been taught from the beginning.
99% of what the prophets wrote about was repentance, aka Turning back to God and His Torah and what would happen if they didn't.

Now let's read the passage again.

the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael:
and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel:
and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’​

It does not say you go to Phanuel for repentance, nor repent to him. It is speaking not of this act but of the people who have already done so in the Hope from that repentance they will have eternal life.

There is no enactment with them, this one is the on 'set' and he has been 'set' or assigned to watch over them by God himself. God is the only one who could 'set' them over this group.

A better translation of that passage uses the phrase, 'presides over' which makes it more understandable. It could also be 'oversees' or that angel is the overseer of that group.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Do you know there have been over 65,000,000 babies killed by their mothers through abortion, and some of these women claim to be Christians. Wouldn't it be nice if somewhere in the Bible there was a direct commandment that said:

Thou shalt not murder a child by abortion, nor again shalt thou kill it when it is born. - Epistle of Barnabas 19:5

There wouldn't be any nonsense that killing a fetus is not MURDER!

That's one of the reasons I converted to Catholicism. You're right. As Christians, we should know that abortion = killing an unborn baby = murder.

But scripture isn't really specific about that.

But the Catholic Church's teachings are. She possesses a living authority to teach on faith and morals as times change and technology advances. Because an Old Testament prophet couldn't have envisioned modern abortion techniques, in vitro fertilization, human cloning, etc. But the Magisterium can guide the faithful as these new developments arise.

I'm not sure you realize it but you're articulating the limitations of some of your own doctrines. The very challenges you're facing right now are not challenges for me at all as a Catholic.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I think you misunderstand

He also plagiarizes a lot. Entire chunks of his post are copied directly from The Book Of Enoch EXPOSED!

Compare the link above to the post below if you want.

The Apocrypha is un-scriptural and in some case Occultic.

Allow me to give you just one example.

Enoch 40:9...…...
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.

The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, or Raphael let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That my dear friends is what the Bible calls blasphemy!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them according to 1st Peter 1:18-19; therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.

There are examples just like this one in ALL of the Apochraphael books so IMO they ALL should be rejected.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's one of the reasons I converted to Catholicism. You're right. As Christians, we should know that abortion = killing an unborn baby = murder.

But scripture isn't really specific about that.

But the Catholic Church's teachings are. She possesses a living authority to teach on faith and morals as times change and technology advances. Because an Old Testament prophet couldn't have envisioned modern abortion techniques, in vitro fertilization, human cloning, etc. But the Magisterium can guide the faithful as these new developments arise.

I'm not sure you realize it but you're articulating the limitations of some of your own doctrines. The very challenges you're facing right now are not challenges for me at all as a Catholic.

The Didache quoted the Epistle of Barnabas on that verse, so it would have become doctrine.

 

[prodromos]

The Didache quoted the Epistle of Barnabas on that verse, so it would have become doctrine.

It was doctrine because that is what was always taught by the Church, human life begins at conception and taking a human life is murder.

The Church existed for years before one word of the New Testament was put in writing. The New Testament is a product of the Church, not the other way around.

 

[bbbbbbb]

And given the canon of the Old and New Testament, can you make a case for what you suggest without the Epistle of Barnabas. My view is you probably can - and certainly very easily a case against late term abortions (3rd trimester) - however that is not the subject of this thread which is to do with the canon of scripture.

When I read that post, I was quite taken aback, as it had virtually nothing at all to do with the topic of the thread. It seems that when many people feel cornered they pull out the race card, or, lacking that, will play the abortion (pro as well as con) card.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

This fall and winter, my Pastor will be doing a Bible Study on the Apocrypha, and we will be using the study material put together by Concordia Publishing House.
After English speaking reformed protestants discarded these books, we now have gotten them back.
The Apocrypha: The Lutheran Edition with Notes
Interesting to note, that at various times throughout the Church year, some of the "propers" in the Liturgy have been and still are retained from the Liturgy. This usage is traditional and historic and pre-dates any notion of Protestantism back to the time of the Apostles, and before. Certainly, these writings are not given the same Authority as the Old and New Testaments; but they are part of the historic Bible, and as such give insight and context to the whole of Scripture.

For those who reject these books as valueless or harmful, I am truly sorry that they chose to miss out on the depth and richness that these writings that have given to the Church, and shared, for well over 1500 years.