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How Long Will It Take For Progressives To Understand The Senate Situation?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by mark46, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    SO FAR
    The EMERGENCY stimulus plan was passed with zero Republican votes, by the process of budget reconciliation.

    FUTURE OF PROGRESSIVE BILLS
    None of the bills written and championed by the progressives have ANY chance of passing. NO CHANCE AT ALL. These are wish list bills passed by the House with no chance in the Senate.

    WHAT MIGHT BE PASSED
    A discrimination against Asians bill has become law. A bill against China has been approved and will be signed. A Senate criminal justice bill might be passed, if progressives don't reject it.

    And the progressives will try to reject a $1T infrastructure bill because it isn't enough. What on earth does that even mean? Say 1000 bridges need to be fixed, so we shouldn't fix 500. How does this make any sense?

    The John Lewis Voting Rights bill could be passed, if the progressives allow it to be passed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  2. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    Who are the progressives blocking the passage of H.R. 4?
     
  3. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The progressives are focusing the Senate on other bills, as is the Vice President. They want to focus on the much more expansive wish list voting bill.
     
  4. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    The John Lewis voting bill will not invalidate the 400 plus Jim Crow laws passed in red and swing states--only future bills. Without that change, it's worthless .
     
  5. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow, just wow. Strengthening the most important voting right bill in the history of the US is worthless because we need more. But thank you for being clear. Others couldn't understand how any progressive could stand in the way of this legislation. And yes, this attitude does exactly that.
     
  6. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, please provide a reference for the 400+ laws that have been passed. Of course, even those passed are being appealed in the courts.

    Of course, we are required to accept the rhetoric that limiting absentee balloting is Jim Crow in action. 10 years ago, this was a terrible Republican plot to increase their voting numbers. Republican legislators and campaigners in FL were aghast at the proposal.

    To be sure, there are many horrible bills being passed. Parts of many will be thrown out. There is no clear congressional majority for moving the responsibility for voting rules to the federal government. Obviously, a law is necessary to overturn some clearly bad legislation, but that has exactly zero chance of passing. Including 5 kitchen sinks in the legislation gives it no chance at all, not even of getting the vote of moderates.
     
  7. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    H.R. 4 will only pass the Senate if it can actually get to a vote. This will either require 60 votes to break the inevitable fillibuster, or convincing every Democrat in the Senate to either end the filibuster, or limit it such that this bill can get to a vote on passage on the Senate floor.

    I believe that Congress also needs to establish by testimony, debate, and committee action the intent of Congress to keep the Supreme Court from invalidating it again. At least that's what I think I've heard.
     
  8. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    The Babylon Bee had a good one recently titled something like....

    "Biden Approves 2 Trillion Bill to Study Why Inflation is Rising "
     
  9. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, and supposedly lawyers are working on it. The thing is that this clearly isn't on a fast track, like the other bill that will also clearly face many, many court challenges if approved.
     
  10. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    A bill that can't survive John Roberts is not a useful replacement for the section of the VRA that Roberts already killed. So exactly how are progressives trying to block this bill?
     
  11. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath Supporter

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    Hold hearings.
    Determine to what extent SCOTUS’ VRA opinion deviates from facts established in these hearings.
    When writing the bill, note these differences, “The Court said racial animus in voting rights had ended...here’s the facts” pass the corrective legislation.
     
  12. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    That seems like exactly what you do to move forward. I'm at a loss to why a certain poster seems to think that progressives in Congress are stalling this.
     
  13. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The progressives simply ignore the bill, and leave the lawyers to work on it. An example of attitude was posted on this thread when Fantine posted that this bill is useless.
     
  14. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    Maybe the lawyers aren't done with it...

    But who cares if the "progressives" are "ignoring it"? Do they control the Senate? What matters is the leadership. Has the leadership abandoned this bill? Shoved it aside, etc.?
     
  15. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ???
    The Democrats in the House have had 5 years to prepare a proper bill. Instead they focused on wish list bills. As far as voting rights, they didn't put a priority on this bill. The wish list bill was sent to the Senate a year ago. There has been plenty of time, if there was much interest. The reality is that this is not a high priority for progressives, who prefer to send bills to the Senate that have no chance so that they can say "I gotcha" to those who vote against their pet bills, like the $15 minimum wage.

    The goals of the progressives, as has always been the case, is much different from the party as a whole Passing law is not their highest priority (as you think it would be for legislators). Rather, their highest priority is to promote their positions. It may seem to some that this is the same thing. it certainly is not.

    You see this every day. Let's stop any talking to the opposition. Present a united front. Keep the proposals extreme. Try to pressure every Democrat to support our positions by putting all the measures to a vote.

    Biden has a major problem, and it isn't primarily with Republicans. The bi-partisan House infrastructure bill is almost ready. However, the largest stumbling block is likely to be progressives who want to insist on a $2T bill.
     
  16. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    At least I can agree with your first 3 characters.

    How is it that they had 5 years to pass bills? Only in the last 5 months has there been a president that would sign a Democrat-leaning bill. Only in the last 27 months has there been a House that would pass "message" bills (and for the 116th Congress, Mitch just ignored them). It's not clear that there are the votes for even watered down versions of the Dem bills in the Senate.

    The VRA fix *must* be a stand-alone bill with a clear record of the intent of Congress (majority is sufficient to determine that) that is airtight against judicial assault or the first time the DOJ uses it to block a state voting change a district court will grant an injunction to the state and a circuit court will sustain it. Even then, the bill will need to be strong enough that there are no cracks through which CJ Roberts can again strike it down by forcing him to agree to the legal argument it makes (or getting 2 of 3 Trump Justices to accept it in opposition to CR Roberts.)

    To pass it through the Senate either 10 Republicans to agree (a prospect that seems slim given Mitch's opposition to the fix of a bill he enthusiastically supported years ago), or convince *all* 50 Dem Senators to grant an exception to the 60-vote cloture rule for voting and/or civil rights bills like was done for federal judges (Dems, 2013), executive branch officials (GOP, 2017), and Supreme Court Justices (GOP, 2017). Doing the latter may take a number of failures of the former on other legislation to convince all Dem Senators to narrow the fillibuster rule.


    [While the elections bill (HR 1/ S 1) has some things in it that I don't care for, it has already passed the house with the votes of nearly every Democrat, and in the Senate 49 of 50 Dems are co-sponsors. The only non-sponsor, is Sen. Manchin who recently announced his opposition. This is not just some "progressive fantasy" bill.]
     
  17. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I stopped here.

    The current bill being considered by the Senate was the one given the highest priority by the House. It was sent to the Senate BEFORE Trump was elected. If the priority was the restoration of the Voting Right Act of 1975, the the Democratic House could have worked on and passed that bill, before their omnibus make a wish voting rights bill. It is a matter of priorities, then and now.
     
  18. Hans Blaster

    Hans Blaster On campaign in Georgia

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    If you're not going to read, then there is nothing to say.
     
  19. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK, so it the filibuster breaking bill. Call whatever you want. Believe, if you must, that HR4 has a better chance at passage in the Senate than HR1.

    Manchin is taking the heat for the moderates, as he will do for many bills.

    The reason that the bill has so many progressive planks is that it was sent up under Trump, knowing that there was no chance of it passing.

    But, no problem. This situation is well in hand under the leadership of the VP, who has taken this on as a high priority. Surely she will convince Manchin to vote for the bill, and make it filibuster proof.

    This bill is similar in many ways to the crazy Republican voting bills in the states. There are many really bad ideas, and unintended consequences.

    But, no matter. There is no reason to consider the substance. Almost no one in Congress is doing that.

     
  20. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    HR1 is just grandstanding. It was passed in March 2019, with every progressive wish for changes to voting rights. There was no illusion that it might ever be passed.

    The Voting Right Act of 1975 was struck down in 2013. The Supreme Court found deficiencies that needed to fixed by Congress. Democrats have had EIGHT years for the lawyers to work on this. It was only the death of John Lewis that made this a priority at all. I totally reject the idea that the lawyers are too busy to do the work.

    The reality is that there are higher priorities for progressives, the highest of which to get rid of the filibuster. The really, really sad thing is that HR4 is a much, much better method. Manchin might have be pushed into a corner of supporting this and getting around the filibuster.

     
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