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Featured How long is the gap between Dan.9:26 and 27 ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Quasar92, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First decree to rebuild the temple: Cyrus, in Ezra 1:1-4, in 539 B.C.

    Second decree to rebuild the temple: Darius, in Ezra 6:6-7, in 522 B.C.

    Third decree to rebuild the temple: Artaxerxes, in Ezra7:11-26, in 457 B.C.Fourth and

    Fourth and only decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the walls and the streets. By Artaxerxes in his 20th year of reign, in Nehemiah 2:1-6, in 446 B.C.

    Which confirms the prophetic starting time of the 70 Weeks prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.

    Destruction of Solomon's temple was in 586 B.C.

    The second temple was completed in the 6th year of the reign of Darius, in 516 B.C., 70 years after the destruction of Solomon's temple in 586 B.C.

    The decree by Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem, the walls and the streets, came in 446 B.C.,
    70 years after the completion of the second temple in 516 B.C.

    "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah, the ruler, comes, there will be seven weeks, and sixty two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and the wall, in troublous times." Dan.9:25.

    From the decree by Artaxerxes in 446 B.C. through the first seven weeks:

    is 49 years, to 397 B.C., when the OT writings ceased, after 3,603 years, until the birth of Jesus, in 3 B.C.
    7 weeks = 49 X 360 = 17.640 days: 62 weeks = 434 X 360 = 156,240 days:
    + 17,640 days = 173,880 days = 69 weeks = 483 years

    The gap between the 69th and 70th weeks begins with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D., which will end when the Church is raptured, according to Jn.14:2-4,28; 1 Thes.4:14-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8. Immediately followed by the "he" [all three of the "he's"] who"confirms a covenant/agreement with many," in Dan.9:27. The [man of lawlessness in 2 Thes.2:3,4 & 8/the beast out of the sea the dragon/Satan will give his throne, power and authority to in Rev.13:1-2] antichrist, who will confirm a covenant/agreement between Israel and her Islamic neighbors. Which we are still waiting on, to take place.

    Which confirms the meaning of Dt.32:21; Isa.65:1; Rom.10:19, 20 and Rom.11:25, "...until the full number of Gentiles has come in," i.e. the entire Church age.

    Does the above prophetic gap set any Scriptural preferences?

    By no means! Only in that the exact number of years has not yet been made known to us. There was a 1,000 year gap between Ps.22 and Mt.27:38 as well as 750 years between Isa.53 and Mt.27:38, among many other accounts!

    Come Lord Jesus!


    Quasar92
     
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  2. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    No Gap

    Jesuit teaching from the dcounter reformation
     
  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think that sound biblical exegesis of Daniel 9:24-27 must lead to an understanding that the seventieth week is separated from the first sixty-nine weeks of years because of Israel failure to accept Jesus as their promised Messiah. Therefore, God has postponed the final week of years until the start of the seven-year tribulation. In the mean time, the New Testament teaches us that the church age will intervene during the postponement of Israel's final week of years. Maranatha!

    By Thomas Ice, PhD


    Quasar92
     
  4. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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    How long? I'm still waiting. I'll let you know...
     
  5. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Sorry that is not a correct interpertation of the prophecy, the seventy week prophecy is about the coming of the messiah, his baptism, death on the cross and the gospel going to the gentiles. That is why it says seventy weeks are determined upon my people.

    Literal Iseral ceased to be Gods choosen people when they crucified him. It is now spirital Isreal that inherits the promises and we as gentiles are graphed into it spiritually.

    The seventy week prophecy is part of the 2300 day prophecy (Daniel 8 vision), both beginning at the order to rebuild Jerusalem. Taken the last week out and putting after the completion of the 2300 day prophecy does not compute. Jesus is very orderly no confusion.

    The Bold below pertain to Jesus Christ
    Dan 9
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (he was anoited at his baptism by the holy spirit)

    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the previous non bold pertains the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad)

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (untill the stoning of Steven 3.5 years after the cross the apostles were told to preach the Gospel the Jews only) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (death on the cross ended the sacraficial system illistrated by the curtian in the temple being rent) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    Having a phd does not impress me when they speak not accoring to the law and the prophets.

    Matt 7
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the previous non bold pertains the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad)


    I believe all of the 70 weeks involves 1st century Jerusalem, including Revelation. One has to go thru hoops and twist the Scriptures to come up with any other view [like the rapture prone Dispensationalists for one], IMHO

    Compare the amount of time the flood covered the earth in Gene 7

    Gen 7:24
    And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

    Matt 24:37 and as the days of Noah -- so shall be also the parousia of the Son of Man;

    Compare that to 5 months shown in Reve 9 during the siege of Jerusalem in 70ad:

    Reve 9:
    5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months. And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion, whenever it should be striking a man;

    And to better confirm that, Josephus says that is how long the siege of Jerusalem lasted! Oh the wonder of His word! Amen!

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    ...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the City on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
    Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ;
    and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
     
  7. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Purpose of God for the 70 Weeks of Daniel Prophecy is documented in the following:

    In reaching a correct understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, it is necessary to understand the circumstances that occasioned the giving of this revelation by God to Daniel. No one questions that it relates to Israel’s Babylonian captivity for failure to observe the sabbatical year, given to Israel by the Lord. But how does that relate to the 70-weeks prophecy? As part of the stipulations in the Mosaic Law Code, Israel was to let her land lay fallow every seventh year.

    “Speak to the sons of Israel, and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the Lord. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard. Your harvest’s aftergrowth you shall not reap, and your grapes of untrimmed vines you shall not gather; the land shall have a sabbatical year. And all of you shall have the sabbath products of the land for food; yourself, and your male and female slaves, and your hired man and your foreign resident, those who live as aliens with you’” (Lev. 25:2-6).

    Leviticus 26 provides the sanctions that God would impose upon Israel for the years that they did not obey the specifications of a sabbatical year.

    "Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it." (Lev. 26:34-35).

    "For the land shall be abandoned by them, and shall make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, shall be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes." (Lev. 26:43).

    The Lord clearly revealed to Israel on how they were keeping or not keeping His Law in the historical book of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles and why Israel was sent away to Babylon for 70 years in the following passage:

    "And those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. all the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete." (2 Chr. 36:20-21).

    What passage in Jeremiah was the statement in Chronicles referring to? The following two references provide the answer.


    And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years (Jer. 25:11).

    For thus says the Lord, “When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place.” (Jer. 29:10).

    It is clear from the above passages that God had a specific reason behind the deportation of the Southern Kingdom (Judah) to Babylon for 70 years. This would mean that Israel violated the sabbatical year 70 times. The Jews entered the Promised Land around 1450 b.c. and were deported to Babylon around 600 b.c. This means that they were in the land about 850 years before the Babylonian deportation. Had they disobeyed the sabbatical year commandment every seventh year, it would mean that they should have been in captivity for more than 121 years. Instead, they were held captive for 70 years, meaning that they were disobedient for only 490 of the 850 years in the land. This would mean that there were breaks or gaps in the accumulation of the 490 years, during the 850-year period, that resulted in Israel’s 70-year captivity. Why is this important? Because many of the critics of the literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 insist that it is unreasonable to have gaps in that 490-year period. Which is false, since there were many gaps in the 490-year period related to the Babylonian Captivity.

    Critics of a Future 70th Week

    Preterist Gary DeMar is one of the most outspoken critics of a yet future 70th week of Daniel. DeMar argues that there are never any gaps in any time periods in Scripture that he examines. He declares, “If we can find no gaps in the sequence of years in these examples, then how can a single exception be made with the ‘seventy weeks’ in Daniel 9:24-27?”

    Interestingly, DeMar does not examine the 490-year period that took place during the 850 years of Israel’s occupation of the land as mentioned above. As I have noted, there are all kinds of gaps within this sequence. There were roughly 360 years of gaps interspersed throughout the 850-year period. This makes it directly related to the 70-weeks prophecy given to Daniel. DeMar acknowledges that Daniel’s 70-weeks are related to the violation of the sabbatical year laws of Leviticus 25 and 26, and connected to 2 Chronicles 36 and Jeremiah 25. But he fails to observe the fact that the 490 years of Daniel 9:24-27 are derived from the 490 years of Israel’s violation of the sabbatical years prescribed by God, over the 850 years they became a nation, in His covenant with the nation.

    Dr. Harold Hoehner answers critics like DeMar when he notes that “The seventy-year captivity was due to the Jews having violated seventy sabbatical years over a total of a 490 year period out of 850 years they were a nation, and Daniel now saw seventy units of sevens decreed for another 490 years into Israel’s future.” Hoehner has diagramed this relationship as noted in the “Units of Seventy” chart below.

    We also know that Daniel himself was familiar with the reason why God had sent His people into the Babylonian captivity from the first part of Daniel 9.

    In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans-in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. So I gave my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes (Dan. 9:1-3).

    Dr. Leon Wood explains this matter as follows:

    Since Daniel was thinking in terms of the seventy-year captivity, as a Hebrew, could have easily moved from the idea of one week of years to seventy weeks of years. This follows because, according to 2 Chronicles 36:21, the people had been punished by this Exile so that their land might enjoy the sabbath rests which had not been observed in their prior history (cf. Lev. 26:33-35, Jer. 34:12-22). Knowing this, Daniel would have recognized that the seventy years of the Exile represented seventy sevens of years in which these violations had transpired; and he would have understood Gabriel to be saying, simply, that another period, similar in length to that which had made the Exile necessary, was coming in the experienced of the people.

    Even though DeMar recognizes the cause for Daniel’s prayer and the subsequent revelation of the angel Gabriel to Daniel of the 70-weeks prophecy, he fails to recognize that the 70-year captivity was based upon a 490-year period that occurred out of a total of 850 years they were a nation, contained multiple gaps of time.

    DeMar argues that a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel is not justified because there are not other examples of this in Scripture. Which justifies such a gap as an example that other gaps occur in the Scriptures as well. An example has not only been found, but it is directly related to the 70-weeks prophecy of Daniel. Thus, using DeMar’s standard, he should recognize that a gap in Daniel 9:24-27 is justifiable.

    Gary DeMar goes on to insist that it is impossible to have any kind of gap or chronological postponement of time between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel. As has already been noted, the text says nothing about "a period between the sixty-ninth and seventieth-weeks." There can be no "period between" any time period, whether seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, or years unless a period of time is expressly given. It is impossible to insert time between the end of one year and the beginning of another. January 1st follows December 31st at the stroke of midnight. There is no "period between" the conclusion of one year and the beginning of the next year. Culver, therefore, begs the question. He first must prove that a period of time should be placed between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks before he can maintain that there is a "period between" the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. The "simple language of the text" makes no mention of a gap."

    However, there is clear evidence why the 70th week of Daniel is yet future and, thus, the necessity of a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week. Just as Gary DeMar and others who do not think that Daniel 9:24-27 can be taken literally are mistaken. Daniel 9:24-27 allows for a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week because the advancing of God’s program relating to His people Israel was put on hold and will be postponed until a future time. Primarily, because Israel ceased to be a nation after 70 A.D. until reestablished on May 14, 1948. Apparently critics like DeMar are not able to see the time gaps of the past, like the one demonstrated in this article, so it is not surprising that they do not understand how there is one in God’s future plan for His people Israel.

    By Dr. Thomas Ice, PhD.

    From: http://raptureready.com/featured/ice/70-weeks-4.html


    Qyasar92
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Saved by the blood of the Lamb Supporter

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    All of this sounds quite complicated. Even so, Come, Lord Jesus, Come!
     
  9. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not really. Israel disobeyed God's command to leave the land fallow every seventh year, their Sabbatical Sabbath, over a period of 490 years. The 70 Week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 is a total period of 490 years, that cover the destiny of Israel to their restoration to God, in Zech.12:10, fulfilling the prophecy, at the second coming of Jesus.


    Quasar92
     
  10. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    They are no longer his people that ended when they crucified him.

    It is now spiritual Isreal that we are joined into. that is the fatal flaw in this teaching.
     
  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    The reason is is so complicated as you state is that it a misinterpertation of the word of GOD. It is confusing. So it must not be from God as God is not the author of confusion.
     
  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Reference as to his people, refers to Daniel's people, Israel.


    Quasar92
     
  13. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Your quoted statement not mine It says God's future plan for his people Not Daniels
     
  14. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Matthew 24: 36
    "But of that day and hour no one knows,
    (WHEN Tribulations / Things / Signs BEGIN)
    not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
     
  15. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The prophecy Gabriel gave to Daniel, was to him, pertaining to his people, Israel.

    Dan.9:20 "While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:"


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  16. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Explain these verses then

    Deuteronomy 7King James Version (KJV)
    7 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

    2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

    3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

    4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

    5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

    8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

    9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
     
  17. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Dan.9:24-27 pertains to the disposition of Daniel's peope, Israel, with relation to Jesus, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem, after their exile to Babylon/Persia. From Jesus first advent to His death. Resulting in the destruction of the 2nd temple and Jerusalem, in 70 A.D. To the prophecied 70th Week/seven years of tribulation, to the very edge of Jesus second coming, but not documented as such.

    Picked up again in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5 when Jesus does return in His second advent, fulfilling the 70th Week of Dan., when all Israel will be saved, fulfilling Rom.11:26.


    Quasar92
     
  18. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    You just regurgitated your talking points and did not address the posting that you quoted. Are you a BOT?
     
  19. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan. 9:26-27)
    Hal Lindsey had an interesting way of explaining this gap. He says when Israel rejected the Messiah the 70 weeks were put on hold after the 69th week. The analogy he used was that of a stop watch, when Christ was rejected as the king of Israel the watch was stopped and will commence again when this covenant is confirmed. Israel has a history of going down the Egypt for help and other unholy alliances, this one is sometimes refereed to as the covenant with death. Half way through the tribulation the Antichrist breaks the covenant and erects an idol of himself. I'm not really sure how they couldn't see through this guy earlier but they absolutely refuse to worship that stupid thing. He is furious and pursues them and in the wake Israel repents. God protects them while they flee, the ground literally opens up and swallows the army that is pursuing them.

    That gap is 2000 years long and counting. The last of the 70 sevens will commence with the opening of the first seal and God alone knows when that will happen. When it does, the return of Christ is 7 years away.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  20. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Isaiah 8:20 King James Version (KJV)

    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Did he not set false prophecy in his book the late great planet earth?
     
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