How literally are we to take the writings of Ecclesiastes?

Monna

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I recently re-read the book of Ecclesiastes and came away (again) almost depressed. Yes, there are many individual verses and portions that are enlightening, but for anyone who wants to believe that the whole Bible is directly and literally true, there are parts that leave me wanting an explanation.
Chapter 3:18-22
I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Or, is this really true?
Chapter 2: 24
Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.
Nothing is better? Remember this is the man to whom God gave special wisdom, (Christians tell their children he was the wisest man who every lived) and according to this book, he made the equivalent of a scientific study of the purpose of life on earth, trying all sorts of things. He comes back several time to this - its best just to eat drink and be merry.

All is vanity. According to a man who had direct contact with God, and whose respect for God's active intervention in individual lives, and his ultimate right to decied everything shines through the book.

Do the admonitions of the book apply to Christians today? If not, what other parts of Scripture do not apply, and which do? And who decides?
 

faroukfarouk

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I recently re-read the book of Ecclesiastes and came away (again) almost depressed. Yes, there are many individual verses and portions that are enlightening, but for anyone who wants to believe that the whole Bible is directly and literally true, there are parts that leave me wanting an explanation.
Chapter 3:18-22
I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Or, is this really true?
Chapter 2: 24
Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.
Nothing is better? Remember this is the man to whom God gave special wisdom, (Christians tell their children he was the wisest man who every lived) and according to this book, he made the equivalent of a scientific study of the purpose of life on earth, trying all sorts of things. He comes back several time to this - its best just to eat drink and be merry.

All is vanity. According to a man who had direct contact with God, and whose respect for God's active intervention in individual lives, and his ultimate right to decied everything shines through the book.

Do the admonitions of the book apply to Christians today? If not, what other parts of Scripture do not apply, and which do? And who decides?
It's good to read it in the light also of the New Testament, where we learn that to those who love and trust the Lord Jesus He is made 'wisdom, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption' (1 Corinthians 1.30).
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

That is the key to understanding the book.

Much of the Bible is to be interpreted metaphorically, and in light of the context at the time it was written.

Solomon is a man well known for his debauchery and lavish living. Ecclesiastes is his way of explaining what life's purpose is all about. He said, everything is useless, I have done it all and can attest that one pursuit after the next leads man to the same conclusion, it is all useless... but he closes with the most profound statement. The real purpose of life is... to fear God!

So understand the book from the POV of a man trying desperately to find purpose and place in the universe.
 
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Monna

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Much of the Bible is to be interpreted metaphorically, and in light of the context at the time it was written.

Whether or not it is to be understood metaphorically, is it true? And how do you take "eat drink and be merry" metaphorically?

How do you take "This also is from the hand of God" metaphorically (except that God, as spirit, ha not hands)?

My question is basically, is it true?

And of course, the last three questions in the POV.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Whether or not it is to be understood metaphorically, is it true? And how do you take "eat drink and be merry" metaphorically?

How do you take "This also is from the hand of God" metaphorically (except that God, as spirit, ha not hands)?

My question is basically, is it true?

And of course, the last three questions in the POV.
Ecclesiastes is a book of layers and perspectives. Without communion with God, things become true as a matter of perspective.
 
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Monna

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It's good to read it in the light also of the New Testament, where we learn that to those who love and trust the Lord Jesus He is made 'wisdom, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption'

how were first century Jewish-born Christians supposed to read it, since they didn't have the New Testament?
 
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faroukfarouk

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how were first century Jewish-born Christians supposed to read it, since they didn't have the New Testament?
The good news of the Lord Jesus was being revealed in those days.

All the Old Testament Scriptures look forward to aspects of fulfilment not yet revealed.
 
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Monna

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Ecclesiastes is a book of layers and perspectives. Without communion with God, things become true as a matter of perspective.

If this is your direct experience, can you expound on the nature or these layers and perspectives, or are they all a matter of personal (subjective) communion?
 
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faroukfarouk

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If this is your direct experience, can you expound on the nature or these layers and perspectives, or are they all a matter of personal (subjective) communion?
It's a bit like in Proverbs 8. Wisdom there is personified. But without wisdom personified, the world is profoundly different.

Every Bible books has its own style and background. No complete picture is given by any one Bible book; but the whole is a wonderful panorama of revelation of fulfilment in the Person and Work of Christ.
 
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A_Thinker

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I recently re-read the book of Ecclesiastes and came away (again) almost depressed. Yes, there are many individual verses and portions that are enlightening, but for anyone who wants to believe that the whole Bible is directly and literally true, there are parts that leave me wanting an explanation.
Chapter 3:18-22
I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Or, is this really true?
Chapter 2: 24
Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.
Nothing is better? Remember this is the man to whom God gave special wisdom, (Christians tell their children he was the wisest man who every lived) and according to this book, he made the equivalent of a scientific study of the purpose of life on earth, trying all sorts of things. He comes back several time to this - its best just to eat drink and be merry.

All is vanity. According to a man who had direct contact with God, and whose respect for God's active intervention in individual lives, and his ultimate right to decied everything shines through the book.

Do the admonitions of the book apply to Christians today? If not, what other parts of Scripture do not apply, and which do? And who decides?

Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon in one of his most cynical periods.

Solomon had grown accustomed to the acclaim and recognition which came with the wisdom God had bestowed upon him.

Then he realized that the world would FORGET about him and his accomplishments once he passed off of the scene (as all men do).

In the majority of this writing, he is essentially saying "What's the use of striving to achieve anything, when it all will ultimately come to naught, anyway."

Or, as my brother might say ... "WHY should I empty the trash can, ... it's just going to get filled up again ..."

Fortunately, Solomon came to himself (near the end of the writing), recognizing that the full DUTY of any person, no matter how gifted, ... is to SERVE GOD all of his days.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Not to love him? Fear and love are antagonists, opposites, incompatible. Unless you mean, Respect him.

Jesus even said Fear God Matthew 10:28

My children fear being disciplined so they obey. It doesn't mean I don't love them and that they don't love me. I have no idea what makes people think the two are contrasting with each other.

Jesus said to both fear God and love God. So surely there is no conflict there.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Ecclesiastes 12:5

“Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:”
KJV

Someone showed a different version than the KJV on here the other day and - long - is everlasting - eternal

As if the KJV is the only bible... :|
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I recently re-read the book of Ecclesiastes and came away (again) almost depressed. Yes, there are many individual verses and portions that are enlightening, but for anyone who wants to believe that the whole Bible is directly and literally true, there are parts that leave me wanting an explanation.
Chapter 3:18-22
I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
Or, is this really true?
Chapter 2: 24
Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.
Nothing is better? Remember this is the man to whom God gave special wisdom, (Christians tell their children he was the wisest man who every lived) and according to this book, he made the equivalent of a scientific study of the purpose of life on earth, trying all sorts of things. He comes back several time to this - its best just to eat drink and be merry.

All is vanity. According to a man who had direct contact with God, and whose respect for God's active intervention in individual lives, and his ultimate right to decied everything shines through the book.

Do the admonitions of the book apply to Christians today? If not, what other parts of Scripture do not apply, and which do? And who decides?
the person speaking is the key to the understanding of the passage. The whole Bible is the word of God and every voice in the play is not speaking for God. When Goliath cursed David it is in the Bible but not Gods opinion but Goliath's. The response of David is a great example and David before he fought Goliath claimed he had already fought a lion and a bear. David was not a little kid as some suppose but the star athlete at about 15 years old. He was prepared both physically and spiritually for this moment. The Bible says All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

So as you read Ecclesiastes there is a contrasting statements of poetry that goes through many worldy observations by Solomon. He opens with his own preaching declaring all is vanity and there is nothing new or significant. He gives his purpose of these meditations in this verse. "And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised." Solomon is pondering some big issues and his answers are not in the tone of thus sayeth the LORD. Solomon gives his testimony and compares and contrasts the things he tried to fill his life with and recognizes the vanity of it all. Solomon his wisdom added to his sorrow as he recognized the vain pursuits were not what fulfills a man. He went after pleasure (600) concubines and that too was not fulfilling. He is reflecting of the meaning of life and struggling to find the answer. Here is a quote that is certainly not literally Gods word to us.
And look! The tears of the oppressed,
But they have no comforter—
On the side of their oppressors there is power,
But they have no comforter.
2 Therefore I praised the dead who were already dead,
More than the living who are still alive.
3 Yet, better than both is he who has never existed,
Who has not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.

This is Solomons reflection and he is still searching for the answer. Remember Solomon had not walked with the LORD and turned his heart to pagan Gods through the influence of his wives. He is now a wise man who has wasted much of his life in vain pursuits and is thinking it through.
In Chapter 12 Solomon makes a concluding statement that is the application for all that proceeded it.
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Now this statement is to be taken quite literally.
 
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