• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured How is Salvation, or anything you get from God, a "free gift" if our own will got it for us...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +2,057
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Someone offers you a gift ... you choose whether to accept the gift or not.

    Gods foreknowledge ... He knows who will accept the gift but He does not control the choices.

    Predestination:

    Mankind was created in the image of God and mankind was predestined to that end ... however that end ... is by each of us making the choice willingly ... God does not and will not force anyone with that decision. It is about Love ... no one can force one to love another ... we know that ... God knows that.

    When one accepts the gift ... then the Lord begins His work in that person, changing them over the course of their life ... becoming more and more like Him (in character - His image). He will lead them to His Word and through His Word ... they receive more knowledge ... if they pursue it ... and they will be compelled to do so by the Holy Spirit .... yet ... even so ... one can ignore the Holy Spirit and if one continually does so ... He will .... remove His spirit from them because of their choice.

    We always have choices, we are not robots, we are intelligent human beings and God treats us that way.
     
  2. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Who does God choose and why?
     
  3. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    That is a very strange definition of a free gift and does not have biblical support as far as I know.

    If a million dollars was laid in front of you as a free gift and you were told it is yours if you want it, does picking it up mean you worked for it?

    The people who accepted the invitation to the party were not presented as earning it, were they?

    Was Lazarus at the rich man’s gate earning his living, so the rich man needed to pay him or was he to show pure charity (Love) toward him?

    We could go on, but the Bible explains work, earning money, what deserving is and what gifts, so where are you getting your definition for these words?
     
  4. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

    +841
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Everything good comes from God, He's the CREATOR. If we could earn salvation, Jesus would not have had to be a sacrificial lamb. He paid the price. Faith is a GIFT, so it has nothing to do with your will. God enables your will to receive Him, otherwise our rebellious sin nature ledt to itself has nowhere to go but down your own path and reject Him. Jesus even said, NO ONE can come to the Father unless He first draws them. This drawing power is a gradual process by which He orchestrates people and events in your life, lifts the veil of spiritual blindness so that you can see.
    There is nothing a person's will can do to remove spiritual blindness by himself.
    So it is a foolish notion to think man can choose God or receive the gifts of life, material needs and spiritual gifts all by himself.
    Your will isn't as free as you think anyways. You are either a slave to God or a slave to Satan.
     
  5. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,582
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Best to ask God that one.

    Repent and Trust in Christ.

    M-Bob
     
  6. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

    Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

    With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

    I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.
     
  7. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,582
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Seems that some in the Old Testament were heading for hell?
    M-Bob
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    How does that address my questions?

    That is not a Biblical answer, but one you made up yourself.

    Does your understanding of God and scripture allow for God to be totally arbitrary of one from another?

    With your understanding of Godly type Love and God’s omnipotence, how could God save just some, since he could just as easily and safely save everyone, since everyone is the same prior to His deciding who will be saved?

    I do not have to ask God why He saved one person and did not save another, since He has told us His plan all along, was He chose to save all who accept the invitation.
     
  9. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +4,554
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    Our own will didn't get it for us.
    Jesus died to reconcile mankind to God. This was God's will, and plan; he didn't ask for our opinion or permission. God gives every Spiritual blessing to those who believe and are in his Son. Ephesians 1:3. This was his will and plan; not ours.
    Salvation is from God - his doing and his will. It is a gift for us if we want to accept it, Romans 6:23. We can accept it, or reject it. God still offers it, and goes on offering it until it is too late.
     
  10. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    +4,554
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    Why would God do that?
    Are you saying that God made all people in his image, decided beforehand that some of them were never going to be allowed to know him and therefore go to hell, and decided to deceive those who were hand picked by him to go to heaven anyway, by making it look as though they had been allowed to choose?

    God is involved in deception and game playing? Really?
    God cannot sin - he is holy and cannot tolerate sin. He is also light and there is no darkness in him at all.

    In the OT the Israelites were punished because they turned away from God and chose to worship idols; again and again. God sent godly judges or kings who tried to lead the people back to God; if the nation was facing disaster, they said "ok", and repented. But when the bad times passed, or the judge/king died they constantly turned away again and sinned. The prophets were always saying "choose whom you will serve".
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,346
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Quite right. The majority of folk all around us are rejecting the free gift of salvation through Christ. The Scripture says, "How shall they escape, who neglect so great a salvation?"
     
  12. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,582
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I don't think that means everybody?
    MB
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,346
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I don't know. It is one of those mysteries that are not fully explained to us.
     
  14. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,582
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Just don't seem fair -- does it?
    Sometimes man hardens his heart.
    Sometimes God hardens mans heart.
    MB
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,346
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Yes. Our role is to believe the gospel and accept the invitation to come to Christ and put our trust in Him for our salvation. Our election depends on whether we have embraced Christ or not. Therefore, we add our faith to the salvation promises in the Bible and worry about our election later.
     
  16. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    When you get down to inviting the homeless street people you pretty much covered everyone, the servant seemed to think there was no one left to invite.
     
  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,346
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    God has given us definite promises through the gospel and we are given the invitation to accept or reject them. It is not God who hardens one's heart - it is their own sinfulness and determination to hold on to their sinful life rather than to attach faith to God's promise of salvation in Christ. When people continually resist the Holy Spirit's promptings to receive Christ, God gives them up to their sin and will bring them to judgment at the appropriate time.
     
  18. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

    +888
    Non-Denom
    Married
    No the Bible pretty much explains it.
     
  19. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

    +3,019
    Messianic
    Single
    To use an analogy, if a professional musician were to train me how to play an instrument as a free gift to me, then the training itself would be the content of the free gift and participating in this training would not be doing anything earn the free gift, but rather it would be what it looks like to receive it.

    In the same way, in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so this training is the content of the free gift and participating in this training would not be doing anything to earn the free gift, but rather it would be what it looks like to receive it. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to obey His Law, so that is how God is gracious to us.
     
  20. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

    +1,672
    Christian
    Married
    All not some not most but ALL good things come from God. So that tiny thought, desire what ever it was that lead you to Christ.. that you (being anyone) think it was your own will.. never was. That was the holy Spirit. "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

    If it was will alone.. no one would have found Christ. No man can come to me EXCEPT..
     
Loading...