How is Easter on 3/27/16 before Passover 4/22/16???

[Root of Jesse]

Christ had prophesied it for them to flee.

Maybe, but the Jews continued persecuting Christians after the Passion, Death and Resurrection.

 

[Open Heart]

So, if Easter, in late March (3/27/16), really was the day of Christ Jesus’ resurrection 2,000-years-ago, how could He come out of the grave 25 days before His crucifixion, death and burial on The Passover in late April (4/22/16)?

If Easter really was the authentic Christian celebration of the resurrection of Christ Jesus, Easter would ALWAYS occur on the correct Sunday - the first Sunday following The Passover.

So how is it calculated this year and what exactly are we celebrating???

They are not the same. Easter is a Christian holiday and Passover is a Jewish holiday. Moreover, neither one has anything to do with the months of our present calendar.

Easter is the first Sunday after the full moon on or after the Vernal Equinox. Passover is the 14 of the month of Nissan on the Jewish Calendar. The Jewish calendar follows the moon cycle and varies widely since the lunar cycle is only 28 days and every so often you have a year with an extra month around February.

 

[Open Heart]

It is racist to lump a group of people into a whole. We should be above that.

It depends on what you are saying about the group. If you are saying they are a tribe, nation, or people, there is absolutely nothing wrong with lumping a group of people together into a whole.

If on the other hand you are making a statement about what they believe or some character trait, such as all Americans love money, or all blacks are lazy, or all Jews believe in God, then that is when it becomes racist.

 

[Open Heart]

Maybe, but the Jews continued persecuting Christians after the Passion, Death and Resurrection.

SOME Jews persecuted Christians, and then only for a very short period of time (compared to the thousands of years that Christians have persecuted Jews). Basically, the Sadducees in the temple persecuted Christians (remember that the temple personnel were Roman plants), but the Pharisees in the Sanhedrin did not (Gamaliel said to leave them alone Acts 5:34-38).

 

[Open Heart]

To follow up on the idea that both sun and (new) moon must fall after spring equinox to decide "first month", the earliest Passover would be roughly 2 weeks after equinox and the latest would be roughly 6 weeks? Or roughly from 4/3 to 4/30?

The date for Passover has nothing to do with the Vernal Equinox (although Easter does).

 

[Root of Jesse]

SOME Jews persecuted Christians, and then only for a very short period of time (compared to the thousands of years that Christians have persecuted Jews). Basically, the Sadducees in the temple persecuted Christians (remember that the temple personnel were Roman plants), but the Pharisees in the Sanhedrin did not (Gamaliel said to leave them alone Acts 5:34-38).

Well, I didn't say all, did I? The reason they stopped persecuting Christians in Jerusalem is because they left. You can find an audio narrative of Early Church history, very detailed, at www.michaeljohnwitt.com. Very educational. The Jews in Jerusalem treated the Christians like dirt, and they basically left, because they knew that what the Jews were doing would incite a reaction from the Romans, who couldn't care less about the differences.

 

[SAAN]

They are not the same. Easter is a Christian holiday and Passover is a Jewish holiday. Moreover, neither one has anything to do with the months of our present calendar.

Easter is the first Sunday after the full moon on or after the Vernal Equinox. Passover is the 14 of the month of Nissan on the Jewish Calendar. The Jewish calendar follows the moon cycle and varies widely since the lunar cycle is only 28 days and every so often you have a year with an extra month around February.

Isnt it supposed to be a biblical Holy day, NOT 2 holidays that compete with each other. Jesus died on Passover and rose on First Fruits, so if Christians claim to be remembering the Messiah's death, burial, and resurrection, they should be the same.

In 2018, Easter will fall on April 1, just to confirm how fooled we have been.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Isnt it supposed to be a biblical Holy day, NOT 2 holidays that compete with each other. Jesus died on Passover and rose on First Fruits, so if Christians claim to be remembering the Messiah's death, burial, and resurrection, they should be the same.

In 2018, Easter will fall on April 1, just to confirm how fooled we have been.

Catholics actually celbrate Easter every day. No competition at all. Really? Easter falls on April 1 in 2018? I always thought that was an atheist holy day.

 

[Standing Up]

The date for Passover has nothing to do with the Vernal Equinox (although Easter does).

Easter was modeled after Passover. Passover was (had) to occur after the spring equinox per Ex. 12:2, Lev. 23:5, Deut. 16:9.

If they didn't wait for the equinox, then they could observe Passover twice in one year, which wasn't supposed to happen, but only in the first month (Ex. 12:2).

 

[Root of Jesse]

Easter was modeled after Passover. Passover was (had) to occur after the spring equinox per Ex. 12:2, Lev. 23:5, Deut. 16:9.

If they didn't wait for the equinox, then they could observe Passover twice in one year, which wasn't supposed to happen, but only in the first month (Ex. 12:2).

There is no doubt that Jesus' Passion coincided with the Passover. The Christian Church chose to disassociate from Passover physically, and remember it mentally, the same way they chose not to use any Hebrew Canon. Holy Thursday commemorates Christ's Passover meal.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In 2018, Easter will fall on April 1, just to confirm how fooled we have been.

My grandmother who passed away last month will be remembered at her memorial service on April 1st of this year. It's when it could be scheduled. It's an unfortunate coincidence that her memorial will take place on a day which certain parts of the Western world designate as a day of pranking, but that's how things happen to be. Perhaps my grandmother's life, her memory, should also be considered foolish because of this? Or, perhaps, one shouldn't read into these things and accept that sometimes such coincidences happen.

Translation: You're reaching, reaching really hard, at straws.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is no doubt that Jesus' Passion coincided with the Passover. The Christian Church chose to disassociate from Passover physically, and remember it mentally, the same way they chose not to use any Hebrew Canon. Holy Thursday commemorates Christ's Passover meal.

I think it's important to keep in mind why the early Church chose to disassociate with certain Jewish things, it's because there were, in the earliest centuries, heretical Judaizing sects such as the Ebionites, possibly groups who descended from earlier Judaizing sects which were a consistent source of strife for the Apostles, most notably St. Paul, some of which blended Judaizing elements with elements of Gnosticism and angel-worship. So for St. Paul and the Apostles who were lenient and advocated Christian liberty, there existed a continued element of heresy that continued to plague the early Church; so early Christian leaders advocated disassociating with certain elements that were superficially Jewish because those were being championed by these particular groups of heretics. The Church, in effect, took a stand which Lutherans might call in statu confessionis, being in a state of confession. By taking a hard line on ordinarily innocuous practices--adiophora--because of the abuse of these things threatening the spiritual health of the Church, thus for the sake of faithful confession of Christ and His Gospel one must take a stand on the principles of said faithful confession. For example we find St. Paul in Galatians ch. 5 speaking harshly of certain Judaizers, going so far as to say they should go ahead and castrate themselves if they think circumcision is so important--and yet Paul frequently speaks of circumcision as a matter of conscience and liberty and of no importance one way or another. Yet here, in this instance, he takes a stand against those who are corrupting and perverting the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It's simply contrary to fact to say that Christian worship occurs on Sunday due to an anti-Semitic prejudice. Jesus Christ rose from the dead on Sunday, and that is what we celebrate.

Can you show me in the Bible where we are to do that?

History of the early church clearly shows that Constantine issued the first sunday observance law and forbade judaising on Saturday. Call that anti semitic prejudice or not... the fact is, it happened.

Interesting when you look at it...
Jesus never said to celebrate annually His birth, yet we do, on the wrong day.
Jesus never said to observe His death and resurrection any other way but the foot washing and contemplation of His sacrifice, yet we do, on the wrong day.
Jesus never said to change the day of worship from Sabbath, but we did, to the wrong day.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a pattern among God's professed people

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Vain repetition? Where do you find any 'vain' repetition in the text?
Exult, let them exult, the hosts of heaven,
exult, let Angel ministers of God exult,
let the trumpet of salvation
sound aloud our mighty King's triumph!

Be glad, let earth be glad, as glory floods her,
ablaze with light from her eternal King,
let all corners of the earth be glad,
knowing an end to gloom and darkness.

Rejoice, let Mother Church also rejoice,
arrayed with the lightning of his glory,
let this holy building shake with joy,
filled with the mighty voices of the peoples.

(Therefore, dearest friends,
standing in the awesome glory of this holy light,
invoke with me, I ask you,
the mercy of God almighty,
that he, who has been pleased to number me,
though unworthy, among the Levites,
may pour into me his light unshadowed,
that I may sing this candle's perfect praises).

(Deacon: The Lord be with you.
People: And with your spirit.)
Deacon: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord.
Deacon: Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
People: It is right and just.

It is truly right and just,
with ardent love of mind and heart
and with devoted service of our voice,
to acclaim our God invisible, the almighty Father,
and Jesus Christ, our Lord, his Son, his Only Begotten.

Who for our sake paid Adam's debt to the eternal Father,
and, pouring out his own dear Blood,
wiped clean the record of our ancient sinfulness.

These, then, are the feasts of Passover,
in which is slain the Lamb, the one true Lamb,
whose Blood anoints the doorposts of believers.

This is the night,
when once you led our forebears, Israel's children,
from slavery in Egypt
and made them pass dry-shod through the Red Sea.

This is the night
that with a pillar of fire
banished the darkness of sin.

This is the night
that even now throughout the world,
sets Christian believers apart from worldly vices
and from the gloom of sin,
leading them to grace
and joining them to his holy ones.

This is the night
when Christ broke the prison-bars of death
and rose victorious from the underworld.

Our birth would have been no gain,
had we not been redeemed.
O wonder of your humble care for us!
O love, O charity beyond all telling,
to ransom a slave you gave away your Son!

O truly necessary sin of Adam,
destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault
that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!

O truly blessed night,
worthy alone to know the time and hour
when Christ rose from the underworld!

This is the night
of which it is written:
The night shall be as bright as day,
dazzling is the night for me, and full of gladness.

The sanctifying power of this night
dispels wickedness, washes faults away,
restores innocence to the fallen, and joy to mourners,
drives out hatred, fosters concord, and brings down the mighty.

On this, your night of grace, O holy Father,
accept this candle, a solemn offering,
the work of bees and of your servants' hands,
an evening sacrifice of praise,
this gift from your most holy Church.

But now we know the praises of this pillar,
which glowing fire ignites for God's honour,
a fire into many flames divided,
yet never dimmed by sharing of its light,
for it is fed by melting wax,
drawn out by mother bees
to build a torch so precious.

O truly blessed night,
when things of heaven are wed to those of earth,
and divine to the human.

Therefore, O Lord,
we pray you that this candle,
hallowed to the honour of your name,
may persevere undimmed,
to overcome the darkness of this night.
Receive it as a pleasing fragrance,
and let it mingle with the lights of heaven.
May this flame be found still burning
by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain,
has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.
Amen.

IT's funny how you criticize when you seem to know nothing about Catholicism. Only what others have crammed into your head.

What about that above 'prayer' does not encompass "vain repetition". The words are "vain" because they do not come from the heart but from words on a page. You might as well be saying, "Owa tafoo liam"... say these repeatedly to impress God with your devotion.

God isn't interested in hearing how well we can recite someone else's words... He want s to hear from us directly, pouring out our hearts in petition to Him in the name of His Son.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

There is no doubt that Jesus' Passion coincided with the Passover.

Coincided? As in coincidentally... implying the two had no connection?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Which we DO EVERY DAY!

You do foot washing and communion everyday?

Where did I say I celebrate Passover?

Post #73... " It starts on Holy Thursday where we commemorate the Passover Feast of our Lord"

I guess you don't know that we do have a feet washing ceremony to commemorate Jesus washing the feet of his apostles?

Good to hear... but mixing truth with error just gets you dirty truth.

 

[Jipsah]

Yes, Jesus never expressed himself allegorically.

Interesting allegory that had His followers leaving Him in droves because " This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" Apparently many still can't hear it.

.. why would I think such a thing?

Because it is a hard saying, and because your sect has decided that it's easier to belief that He was just making an analogy.

When Jesus said He was the Rock, what type do you suppose he meant?

How many left Him they found what He said there unsupportable? Nowadays, rather than leaving, people just assign a "meaning" to His words that they don't find so offensive.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Can you show me in the Bible where we are to do that?

Can you show where in the Bible where we can't do that?

History of the early church clearly shows that Constantine issued the first sunday observance law and forbade judaising on Saturday. Call that anti semitic prejudice or not... the fact is, it happened.

Have you actually read Constantine's law about Sunday? I have. Or are you going by hearsay? I can quote it from the Code of Justinian if you like, I can even provide it in the Latin if you want.

Interesting when you look at it...
Jesus never said to celebrate annually His birth, yet we do, on the wrong day.
Jesus never said to observe His death and resurrection any other way but the foot washing and contemplation of His sacrifice, yet we do, on the wrong day.
Jesus never said to change the day of worship from Sabbath, but we did, to the wrong day.

Jesus never said to have a Bible, but we have one anyway.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a pattern among God's professed people

As do I. Some believe Jesus is worth celebrating and that the New Testament is significant while others seem to think the Lord and the New Testament are basically just an appendix at the back of the Old Testament.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jipsah]

Which should be celebrated throughout the year, not in a church meets pagan mashup...

Further evidence that you've never attended an Easter service at a real church.

You said you celebrate Passover... do you do it on the actual Passover that God proclaimed?

I don't celebrate Passover. Passover was a foreshadowing or our Lord's victory over death. Is seems to me ludicrous to focus on the promise, and ignore its fulfillment in the reality of our Lord's resurrection. What kind of lunacy is that?

Why not celebrate it as He commanded, washing of the feet

We do that.

with humble prayer and contemplation of His condescension to us

Do that, too.

eating of the bread and wine?

Every service. Good you mentioned that, BTW. Remember:
27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Appears to me that your lot not only doesn't discern the Lord's body in the Eucharist, but defiantly declares that it isn't there. That seems like an extraordinarily bad idea to me.

[Why is the churches instruction and tradition more important than Christ's command?

See above. Perhaps it's because some "churches" see fit to assign "meanings" to the Scripture to make it more easily fit their doctrinal presuppositions.

Why are His people so adverse to doing as He asks? The spirit of rebellion maybe?

I'll leave you to ponder that for yourself.

History definitely repeats itself...

So we see. BTW, does your lot believe that our Lord Christ is God Incarnate?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Interesting allegory that had His followers leaving Him in droves because " This is an hard saying; who can hear it?"

They left Him because they could not discern the spiritual meaning of what He was saying, they thought he was being literal... eat my flesh and drink my blood was not meant in a cannibalistic way but to be understood spiritually... spiritual things are spiritually discerned not carnally.