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How interested in the US elections are you?

Discussion in 'UK and Ireland' started by GreenMunchkin, Sep 8, 2008.

Do the US elections matter to you?

  1. Hugely important

  2. Taking a casual interest

  3. Meh...

  4. There's an election?

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. TemperateSeaIsland

    TemperateSeaIsland Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

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    Maybe from your POV, but many would disagree. Out of interest what's a Anarcho-Primitivist? Is it some kind of get back to nature type philosophy? Somewhat like hunter gatherers?

    I suppose now your rooting for Bob Barr?
     
  2. huldah153

    huldah153 Active Member

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    You can learn more about it here.
     
  3. TemperateSeaIsland

    TemperateSeaIsland Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

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    Thanks; Interesting.



    As for the OP I'm quite interested in the election. At the moment I'd rather they start from scratch with new candidates as I don't think either one is terribly impressive but from what is on offer I would certainly prefer Obama.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2008
  4. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    Huh. Obama is extreme left - not even liberal, but left - and McCain is middle-of-the-road right. How are they the same?

    Agree, actually. He was the better Republican candidate.

    Without this turning into a creationism/evolution thread, you don't think there's room for both to be taught?
     
  5. huldah153

    huldah153 Active Member

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    All their policies are the same. They both believe in over-spending, illegal immigration, gun-control, NAFTA & GAT, foreign aid, the welfare state, the Patriot Act, the Terrorism Prevention Act, and both have pledged allegiance to AIPAC. Now within those policies they may differ to a minor degree, but the basic thrust is the same.
     
  6. Worcester Beacon

    Worcester Beacon Veteran

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    It appears that we that we are connected at the hip so I just like to know who's pulling the strings next!
     
  7. TemperateSeaIsland

    TemperateSeaIsland Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

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    Because creationism isn't science. Some people believe it because of the bible but there is no physical evidence of events depicted in the bible relating to Genesis. If creationism was discussed in science classrooms then it would be as a discarded idea, falsified by evidence.

    I'm sure your suggestion of teaching both comes from a sense of fairness but science doesn't care about fair it cares about a theory being backed by data and making predictions towards new data. Anything that fails is discarded.
     
  8. Judy02

    Judy02 Well-Known Member

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    Even as a Christian, I don't understand why some people really try and push 'creationism' to be taught in science lessons to be honest. I suppose I don't go around seeing the scientific theories and what's in the bible to be automatically at odds or working against each other anyway. The bible was never intended to be treated like a scientific textbook. Science seems to concern itself with how the earth physically came about, the bible with reasons why. I suppose I don't see creationism not being taught in science lessons as a threat, because they're both different in what they primarily concern themselves with. I suppose if we got really preoccupied with the rules of equality and fairness, we could suggest evolution being taught in religious education. (I don't think it makes sense personally but I'm just turning the tables to explain my line of thought I suppose).
     
  9. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    It's not so much fairness... I just don't see why any of us have the right to nix the idea of kids being taught both. Just as Christians have no right to prevent schools from teaching about evolution, secularists have no right to prevent schools from teaching Christian kids about creationism. And, yes, as a science.

    While you and I don't hold to a 6-day creation, many do. And they're entitled to. We simply don't have the right to decide for them what their children will be taught.

    So teach them both - provide the evidence/facts/anecdotal evidence pertaining to both, and let the kids decide for themselves.
     
  10. Judy02

    Judy02 Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect meant at all, just wanted to make that clear. But how do you see the belief that God created the earth as scientific?
     
  11. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    You don't think God created the earth, at all? I see God everywhere - even down to something as miraculously prosaic as Fibonacci's regularity throughout nature. ID is unequivocal, imo.

    This is primarily a 6-day site, so you can parse much of it, but it has some fascinating information about ID in general - Clicky
     
  12. Judy02

    Judy02 Well-Known Member

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    Of course I do...I never once became close to suggesting I didn't.:confused: Maybe it was a misunderstanding but please don't put words into my mouth. I just wondered how you saw that belief as something that could be taught scientifically that's all.
     
  13. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    Oh, no, definite misunderstanding, then :hug: We were both asking questions, and saw implicit statements instead :D

    Tis so easy to misconstrue stuff here.
     
  14. caveman42

    caveman42 New Member

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    even here in the Philippines, majority of Filipinos WANTS Barack to win...
     
  15. artybloke

    artybloke Well-Known Member

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    Not in science class. The theology of creation can be taught in RE, but "creationism" is nothing more than bad science chasing bad theology.
     
  16. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    Many disagree. And they're entitled to have their children be taught both.
     
  17. TemperateSeaIsland

    TemperateSeaIsland Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

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    And when the student goes to university to study one of the many sciences it contradicts (it's not just the theory of evolution) and finds out that their belief in creationism is regarded as a sick joke within those subjects, then what?

    Scientific theories earn their way into schools and school science lessons are there to give students a taste of the scientific methodology and knowledge that has been built up. Creationism doesn't figure into this at all, it goes against the methodology (not a science) and what little it does predict (age of the universe, evidence of a worldwide flood) is contradicted by the knowledge we have of chemistry, physics and geology. Science lessons don't exist to pander and reinforce peoples ideas of how the word works.

    Teaching creationism in a science class would be akin to teaching pick pocketing in a good citizenship class.
     
  18. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    Christians are already lambasted. If someone is further mocked at uni for believing Biblical creationism, it's no big thing. There are many, *many* Christians who are also scientists. The 2 don't run counter to one another.

    You're entitled to your opinion. Truly. This is being discussed in depth in the conservative Christian forum today, in fact. But if parents wants their kids taught creationism as a science, and the kids are willing to listen to both "sides" and make their own decision, we have no right to infringe upon that.

    Nifty rhetoric. Nonsensical, pejorative analogy.
     
  19. MarcusHill

    MarcusHill Educator and learner

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    Many people think that Shakespeare wrote "Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him well." Are they entitled to have their children taught that alongside the real Hamlet? No, because they're simply wrong. Science is not a democracy and popular misconceptions are still misconceptions.
     
  20. TemperateSeaIsland

    TemperateSeaIsland Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

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    It’s not about mocking it’s about being ill equipped to do a subject because they're ill informed of the realities of science.

    Most of the people in uni I've known were Christian (a few dozen) but only one was a creationist and she wasn't mocked. My MSc supervisor was a devout Christian who did a talk in his church every week and occasionally reminded me about how he worried about my atheism, he also considered creationism to be invalid as a science.

    As Marcus stated science isn’t a democracy, science lessons should reflect the realities of science in academia and industry. Creationism is simply not used by either because it’s useless when it comes to scientific research so what’s the point of teaching it?

    If people want their kids taught creationism they should send them to a church that holds that view, or give them genesis to read. There is nothing to be gained by giving it some false legitimacy in a science lesson but I do think if a student does bring up a question on creationism it should be addressed and not dismissed.


    Many parents hold beliefs in Ghosts, homoeopathy and a small number hold the sun goes round the earth, should these things be also taught as science?

    I’m not implying believing in creationism is criminal and I'm sorry if you thought that was my implication. I’m saying that creationism is essentially anti-science. My analogy might be overly emotive but that’s how I as a scientist feel. Creationism weakens science because it adds untestable elements that make the whole process of science useless.
     
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