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How important is 'The Name'?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by simchat_torah, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

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    Shalom Mishpochah (family),

    "My people shall know my name..."

    This statement from scripture has caused me many hours of internal contemplation. The name of HaShem is a great mystery for many reasons to us today. Ironically, many claim to know precisely what His name truly is. I see that a few have commented in this thread about the origins of Jehovah and YHVH, and I'd like to share a few more insights.

    It is true that YHVH represents the name of G-d, but I'd like to explain why. In Hebrew the four letters of the name of G-d, the Tetragramatron, are: Yud Hey Vav Hey

    I suppose in English the most literal transliteration would be Yahveh. However, the "Yud Hey Vav Hey" is missing vowel points in the every writing we have, including scripture. Thus the true pronounciation is lost.

    One has pointed out clearly that the letter "J" is a more modern invention. So, thus far we could say that Yehovah would be more accurate. However, to go a bit deeper, "Jehovah" as a word is comprised of: "Yud Hey Vav Hey" with the vowel points of Adonai insterted into it. This makes "YHVH" more pronounceable. When you mix the vowel points of Adonai with the four consonants of YHVH you end up with Yehovah. Consequently Jehovah is a fake word.

    And since the "J" is a mistransliteration we have a fake word that is mistranslated and mistransliterated. Did you catch that? A fake word mistransliterated and mistranslated. So, if someone is from the "camp" of say... Jehovah's Witnesses, where they claim that "Jehovah" is the one true name of HaShem, you may stand on firm ground disagreeing.

    As far back in history as we can reach, Yud Hey Vav Hey is the most accurate association of G-d's name, spelled YHVH or pronounced Yahveh. However, the vowel points have been lost, and we truly don't know the exact pronounciation of the Tetragrammatron.

    However, I personally only produced the letters and pronunciation of the Tetragramatron for teaching purposes, and I would encourage all to not use His name lightly. I would never ask any to adhere to my personal level of observance (I only use the tetragramatron when speaking directly to HaShem... ie prayer... or in teaching... as done here) but I would however encourage all to honor His holy name and to use His name with respect and with reverence.

    Now a quick mention about the name of J-sus. There are many attempts in christianity to prove that "J e s u s" is the true name of the Messiah, but as clearly pointed out, "J" is a modern invention. This fact alone would prove otherwise. Yet there may be more at stake than is realized. There is great scholarly work today that shows that Y'shua spoke Aramaic, and most likely that the Brit Chadasha (new test.) was for the most part written in Arimaic and Hebrew (at least Matthew is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to have it's original penned in Hebrew). When the name "ieesous" is examed in greek (pronounced I-ee-zues) it is found to be a combination of two words. Iee being "healing" and Zues being a pagan diety (the king of the g-ds in Greek mythology). It is thought that this combination was created to be either more appealing to the pagans, or to give a teaching (that Y'shua was the healing king of the g-ds), or even possibly more malicious intentions are the inspiration of IeeZues.
    I would also like to point out that the idea of 'zeus' being embedded in the Greek Iesous has not been explicitly shown to be of malicious intent. In otherwords, this may or may not have been done purposefully... we simply do not know.



    In any case, I personally, again this is a personal conviction that I would never impose upon others, will refrain from using "j e s u s" because of it's possible pagan ties. I will rather use Y'shua (yeshua) which is Aramaic, or Yehoshua, which is Hebrew, as Y'shua spoke Aramaic as his natural tongue and had to have spoken Hebrew if he was to have read the scrolls in the synagouges. He would have called himself Yeshua, and others would have recongnized him as Yeshua. Again, as a personal conviction I will use his real name Yeshua as opposed to the other paganized version.

    please do not be offended.

    I will not be offended by any who choose to use the other name, and I want to make it OVERLY abundantly clear that this is a personal conviction.

    Shalom to All!!!
    -Yafet.
     
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  2. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

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    More on "The Name"


    ---Talmud, Yoma 39b



    ---Zohar, Volume 1, Page 1a



    ---footnote, Talmud, Pesachim 49b



    ---footnote, Talmud, Sanhedrin 60a




    ---footnote, Talmud, Sanhedrin 60a




    ---footnote, Talmud, Avodah Zarah 18a




    ---Talmud, Kiddushin 71a
    (26) V. n. 6 [This would suggest that they also hesitated to write or pronounce this latter name in full, but wrote or pronounced it merely Ad or Alef dateth. Lauterbach. J.Z. Proceedings of the Americas Academy for Jewish Research 1930-1931. p. 43.]
    (27) And it was not fit that they should pronounce this.
    (28) [To utter it at the priestly benediction, v. Sot. 38a.]
    (29) I.e., pronounced it indistinctly.




    ---Talmud, Kiddushin 71a
    (32) Maim. in 'Moreh' I, 62, conjectures that these multiliteral Names, of which no trace is found, were perhaps composed of several other divine names; also that not only the names were communicated, but their real meanings too. [On these names v. further Blau L. Das altjudische Zauberwesen pp. 137ff and Bacher. JE XI 264.]
    (33) [ gubm denotes simply a modest man careful to carry out his religious obligations, a pious man, and not a member of a particular sect an Essene. v. Buchler Types, pp. 59ff.]
    (34) Lit., 'stands in the middle of his days'.
    (35) Lit., 'he does not get angry, does not get drunk'.
    (36) Not to use it lightly.
    (37) Lit., 'his fear lies upon mankind.'
    (38) In general the name of God was regarded more than a mere designation, but represented His nature or character and His relation to His people. It thus came to partake of His essence, His glory and power. This probably explains the mystic awe with which its pronunciation was surrounded, on the one hand, and the powers attributed to the right manipulation thereof on the other. Cf. Sanh. 91a: 'He who pronounces the Divine Name according to its letters loses his portion in the world to come; also 65b and 67b on the human powers of creation by means of the Sefer Yezirah, which Rashi a.l. explains was effected by combinations of the Divine Name. [On this subject v. Marmorstein The Old Rabbinic Doctrine of God, I, p. 17.]








    ---Talmud, Sanhedrin 90a(28) This is not a dogmatic assertion that only Israel has a portion in the world to come, but is closely connected with the preceding chapters, and asserts that even those who were executed by Beth din are not shut out from the future world, as is stated in VI, 2.
    (29) The conception of what is to be understood by the future world is rather vague in the Talmud. In general, it is the opposite of vzv okug, this world. In Ber. I, 5, 'this world' is opposed to the days of the Messiah. Whether the Messianic era is thus identical with the future world, and these again with the period of resurrection, is a moot point (v. infra, 91b). The following quotation from G. Moore, 'Judaism' (Vol. 2, p. 389) is apposite: 'Any attempt to systematize the Jewish notions of the hereafter imposes upon them an order and consistency which does not exist in them.'
    (30) Isa. LX, 22.
    (31) Lit., 'that resurrection is not intimated in the Torah.' The doctrine of resurrection was denied by the Sadducees and the Samaritans. It was to oppose these that the doctrine was emphatically asserted in the second of the Eighteen Benedictions (v. W.O. Oesterley. The Jewish Background of Christian Liturgy, Oxford, 1925, 60ff.). According to the present text, however, the reference is not to one who denies the fact of resurrection, but that it is intimated in the Torah. (On the importance of conceding the Biblical origin of this tenet, v. p. 604, n. 12.) But D.S. omits the phrase as interpolated, and he is supported by the Tosef. XIII, 5.
    (32) In the first place, the word denotes an adherent of the Epicurean philosophy, and then, one who lives a licentious and dissolute life. The word has also been derived from rep (cf. repv) to be unbridled, and it is frequently used as a synonym of min (q.v. p. 604, n. 12), heretic. The Gemara defines it as one who speaks disparagingly of the Bible and its disciples.
    (33) Lit., 'the external books'. Graetz, Gesch. IV, p. 99, regards this as referring to un-Jewish, particularly Gnostic literature. Weiss takes a similar view. The pernicious influence of Gnosticism, particularly as it impaired the pure monotheism of Judaism, made the Rabbis very anxious to stem its spread, and hence R. Akiba's dictum. (Weiss maintains that Elisha b. Abuia's revolt against the Rabbis was in some measure occasioned by the influence of Gnosticism.) On this view, ordinary reading is referred to. There are indications, however, that something more is meant. The J. Tal. a.l. adds: 'E.g.. the books of Ben Sira and Ben La'anah. But the reading of Homer and all subsequent books is as the reading of a letter.' In spite of the fact that the Bab. Tal. forbids the books of Ben Sira, it is evident from the discussion that all its contents were well-known, and Sira's wisdom is frequently quoted by the Talmudists. It is also difficult to see why greater exception should be taken to Sira than to Homer. To obviate these difficulties the theory has been put forward that the prohibition is against reading these uncanonical works publicly, treating them as the Scripture and expounding them to the community. Private reading, however, would on this theory not come within the ban. (V. Krochmal More Nebuche ha-Zeman, XI, 5.)
    (34) Ex. XV, 26.
    (35) Lit., 'according to its letters'.





    This plethera of information makes the discussion on the 'name of G-d' very interesting.

    shalom,
    Yafet.
     
  3. Debbi

    Debbi Member

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    So, do youu believe Yeshua was the Messiah? Or are you looking for another Messiah? you could have written Jesus' name in old Hebrew but I don't read Hebrew. I thought Jesus is just the English translation. HIs name is different in other languages but He is the samd person. I thought most Jews were looking for another Messiah?
     
  4. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

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    I am a messianic Debbi, that means that I believe Y'shua was the Messiah.
     
  5. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

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    You of course mean "is" ;)
     
  6. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

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    Question, what do you think of this name?

    InuYasha
     
  7. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

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    I'm unfamiliar with that name... other than the name of an Animae character.


    What does it mean ma lady?
     
  8. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

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    Not sure that is why I am asking, if the vowels be removed and the Inu part taken off ( which looks to be different as separated by the capitalized Y) what you have left is:

    Yod shin vav ayin ?
     
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