How important is respect and obedience in a wife?

[Gabe7]

I've noticed in the Bible that these things are emphasized a lot. Sometimes in church the pastor talks about them and the men tend to stand up straighter while the women roll their eyes. What is the reality in marriage of how important these things are? To the wife? To the husband?

 

[D+C]

I have only been married a year, but as you have had no replies I will put in my tuppence worth.

I suspect my wife would be a weenie bit cross if I told her to be more obedient. That said, there is a tacit understanding that the leadership role lies with me, but most definitely in the context of discussion and mutual understanding. I think that is very important.

Respect on the other hand is much less nuanced, it is a necessity. A wife must respect her husband, but not because she has to- I believe it is the husband's responsibility to earn that respect and it is the wife's responsibility to recognise that it has been earned. Again however this must be mutual.

1 Corinthians 7 1-7 is an excellent text and one around which I try to model our marriage.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Like many people, the first thing I think of when the word obedience is mentioned is what a dog is expected to show to it's master - dog obedience classes is a common term seen, wonder if someone runs wife obedience classes?

You see, obedience isn't a great term, maybe outdated in our modern day way of living but respect is something what we all understand. Without respect in a marriage, you don't have a marriage and I believe that love grows out of respect of each other and not vice-versa.

I recently became a christian and joked with my wife (whose been a christian for many years) that she will have to be obedient to me from now on. She laughed hysterically and walked away - we do however respect and love each other greatly. Well, at least I tried the obedience thing... and failed

 

[D+C]

wonder if someone runs wife obedience classes?

It would take a brave man indeed to start those up! And perhaps an even braver husband to suggest attending a course!

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Respect in general is important. It's important to me that I have her respect, and vice versa. It's also important to know that if I want respect, I have to be worthy of respect as a husband. Can't cast pearls before swine.

Obedience? Yeah, that's a word that would get me laughed at hysterically if I tried to bring that one in.

 

[Gabe7]

The consensus seems to be obedience is a joke. Is that God's will according to his word?

 

[Martinius]

The consensus seems to be obedience is a joke. Is that God's will according to his word?

To answer the original question, I have learned over the decades that respect by each spouse for the other is essential, is critical to a good marriage. How can you love someone (especially in a marital sense) you have no respect for?

I wouldn't say obedience is a joke, but that it should be focused more on obedience of God's will, rather than on obedience to a person. Your spouse should not act like a boss; that concept does not fit with our developed understanding of the best relationship between spouses and the equality they should have in a good marriage.

This view may not fit in with the way some denominations and other faith groups still see the dynamic of husband and wife. But that old way was really not a marriage but a relationship like one between a powerful master (husband) and obedient servant (wife). It is infortunate that a pastor would preach that type of marriage today and not surprising that the wives there would rightfully roll their eyes.

 

[iambren]

Personally, I think this topic is overdone, over-empasized, and distorted often in Christian circles. The previous poster said it well. If you can live with each other keeping in mind that they have faults like you do, and treat each other with love/respect great!

But to try to cookie-cutter some unique pattern on every type of a couple is dysfunctional. Some women have strong personalities, administrative skills while the man (not a wimp) is more flexible. If it works for them then great.

All I can say is that Paul in the NT may hint at sinful tendencies, the Fall where the woman took initiative and the man is to stand firm against that nature. Man is not to abuse but to love. I see these as undertones of a righteous marriage rather than specific behavior.

 

[Luther073082]

The consensus seems to be obedience is a joke. Is that God's will according to his word?

Obedience is a poor term to use for submission because its not well understood. Not because it is incorrect per se.

Obedience as understood by most hearers would be an unquestioningly following a leader in an almost military format. You know how in the military, if the CO says "Jump" you respond "How high?" Thats not how a marriage works.

Submission on the other hand biblically means a lot that the term obedience doesn't convey.

1. Submission is done willingly without blackmail, complustion, threat of force etc. This one is very important for any guy getting married. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO MAKE YOUR WIFE SUBMIT. Submission is willing, she does it because she belives it for the best or belives that God has told her to submit to her husband. Not because her husband says "Submit to me".

2. Submission is not unquestioning either. She has every right to question why you want her to do something and what your motives are. And you owe her a truthful and complete answer. In fact you owe her a truthful and complete answer to pretty much any question she has. This is not a just do it, cause I'm da boss. type of relationship. Also obviously if you ask her to do something sinful or self-harmful her duty is to God above you to say "No".

3. Submission is one equal person choosing to obey another equal person because they belive that it is there role to submit. I don't know about protestant churchs but in Lutheran churchs we submit to our pastors. A pastor doesn't compel or threaten or blackmail someone to get something done, he simpily asks the person to do it, and most good Lutherans would see it as their job then to do that to the best of their ability. Again this isn't an unquestioning obedience, a person may say to his/her pastor that they don't belive they have the necessary skills or time available etc to do it. But we don't outright resist doing something the pastor asks us to. And a pastor doesn't come beat us over the head or order us to submit either.

Remember we are called to "love our wives as Christ loved the church." Though we are not Jesus and therefore imperfect its best to gauge your family dynamic based on the relationship Jesus had with his diciples. At no point in the bible did you see Jesus threatening or ordering his diciples to submit. When they submitted they did it of their own free will.

Also whats very important is that Jesus only asked them to do things and only did things with their best interests in mind. Jesus wasn't concerned about himself or his best interests, he was concerned about their best interests.

When looking for a wife, I think its important to find a good balance of a woman who can be submissive and allow you to lead, but also a woman with a spine. You don't want a power hungry wife that has to be in charge of everything that would be tough to live with.

But on the other hand you don't want a spineless wife who just blindly goes with whatever you say without question. If our spouses are suppose to help us and encourage us in our faith, you want a wife who has a spine enough to say "Hey I think you are wrong." Because you are human you need someone with the spine to call you out. Not telling someone when you think they are doing something wrong is neither love nor respect.

 

[citizenthom]

1. Submission is done willingly without blackmail, complustion, threat of force etc. This one is very important for any guy getting married. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO MAKE YOUR WIFE SUBMIT. Submission is willing, she does it because she belives it for the best or belives that God has told her to submit to her husband. Not because her husband says "Submit to me".

This is critical. If a woman does not believe it is GOD who is dictating her role in the marital home, but her husband, rebellion will be automatic and irrepressible. A woman's desire to submit must come from her relationship with God, not from her relationship with her husband alone.

 

[Gabe7]

This is critical. If a woman does not believe it is GOD who is dictating her role in the marital home, but her husband, rebellion will be automatic and irrepressible. A woman's desire to submit must come from her relationship with God, not from her relationship with her husband alone.

I don't see many women who seem to have the desire to submit to much of anything these days. Do you? Even men refuse to submit to God's will in their lives, women too.

 

[Luther073082]

I don't see many women who seem to have the desire to submit to much of anything these days. Do you? Even men refuse to submit to God's will in their lives, women too.

Thats because we are sinners living in a sinful world. And just as you are not perfect your wife is not going to be perfect. There may be times in which she does not submit to you. But whatever you do you can't try to "set her straight" or tell her to submit to you. And thats where what citizenthom said comes in. Trying to tell her to submit to you will make her feel like she's submitting because you said so. People don't like to follow leaders who make demands of obedience. So making demands of obedience is only going to cause her to lose respect for you.

Something that you always have to consider is how you would want to be led or treated. Would you want to go to a church where the pastor constantly made demands of obedience from you? Would you be more likely to follow a pastor who asked you nicely to do things or one who demanded you do things? True submission is something she only does of her own free will because she see's that as her role, from God and not from you.

I think when you get married, if you choose a wife well and lead well you will be surprised at how often they do submit and let you take the lead on things. There isn't a big announcement that they are submitting to you but it more or less happens naturally. But you also have to look at submission as not any sort of blind and unquestioning obedience.

I think another thing you have to remember is that you shouldn't make a big deal out of it either. The more you discuss submission the more a woman is likely to see you as some sort of power freak which is very unattractive in a leader.

You can tell when you are dating if a woman is going to respect you and if said woman is willing to follow on her own. And she can tell when you are dating that when you take the lead who's benefit you are going to be pursuing. Remembering that leadership is about the benefit of the family as a whole and her and its not about you.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Good post Luther. If we want to look at the husband and wife as compared to Christ and the Church, we need to include the fact that Christ never demanded respect or obedience. He commanded it through His wisdom and actions and life, not by commanding people to do it. The whole image of a woman respecting her husband and submitting to him often takes on this robotic, monochromatic image of a servant and master. By reality, the man who does not demand respect, but instead earns it via his qualities, actions and whatnot, ends up getting more respect than the abusive or patriarchal man who demands it. Fear is not respect.

 

[dreamer82]

To answer the original question, I have learned over the decades that respect by each spouse for the other is essential, is critical to a good marriage. How can you love someone (especially in a marital sense) you have no respect for?

I wouldn't say obedience is a joke, but that it should be focused more on obedience of God's will, rather than on obedience to a person. Your spouse should not act like a boss; that concept does not fit with our developed understanding of the best relationship between spouses and the equality they should have in a good marriage.

This view may not fit in with the way some denominations and other faith groups still see the dynamic of husband and wife. But that old way was really not a marriage but a relationship like one between a powerful master (husband) and obedient servant (wife). It is infortunate that a pastor would preach that type of marriage today and not surprising that the wives there would rightfully roll their eyes.

I agree with this.

Husbands and wives stand as equals under God. I find that some teachings imply that the husband answers to God and the wife answers to the husband. This is false teaching and puts the husband in the role of an idol. Rather, every person, regardless of sex, race ofr anything else that sets us apart from each other socially in this world, answers to God and God alone in the end and should be equally respected as His child.

I have been married for ten years. For nine of them, my husband constantly harped on me for my lack of submission. I think we both thought that if I could just get the submission part down all our problems would be solved. I tried everything you could think of to "fix" myself thinking then "we" would be fixed, but all I did was exhaust and hate myself. Turns out, I found out that my husband had been leading a secret sinful double life. No wonder I couldn't obey him...he was not obeying God himself! Not to mention I was put in the role where I was constantly trying to please my husband and deign to him instead of to God. It became majorly unhealthy and damaging to both of us spiritually and emotionally. During our separation I realized that the infidelity was not the only thing seriously wrong in our marriage. The constant fixation from him on my lack of submission was a form of spiritual and emotional abuse that had to stop. We had both taken in wrong teachings that put all the onus on me to be obedient and didn't put enough of the responsibility on him to lead the way by being sacrifically loving to the point of being willing to lay down his life. Why is it that there are so many more debates, books, preachings and teachings on how/why wives are to submit than on how husbands are to love to the point of laying down their lives? I think each spouse needs to take their eyes off the other and turn them up towards God, living as how HE asks them to. Berating and pressuring a wife into submitting and obeying is NOT self-sacrificially loving as I now know it. My husband now speaks to me and treats me as an equal whose thoughts, opinions and decisions are worthy of as much respect as his, and we are BOTH happier than we have ever been. I now feel respected as a sister in Christ instead of a member of the weaker sex who needs to be bossed around and kept quiet. Thank the Lord!

 

[Romanseight2005]

Have you ever asked how important respect and obedience is for the husband to have for his wife? That is the question you need to ask yourself.

 

[Gabe7]

Have you ever asked how important respect and obedience is for the husband to have for his wife? That is the question you need to ask yourself.

Of course. Nevermind Biblical roles and all that quaint stuff.

 

[c1ners]

Dude, you seem to be focusing on what your girl friend should do for you if you get married, but you've totally taken yourself out of the equation. In order for her to be a biblical wife, you have to be a biblical husband. Stop focusing so much on what she should and shouldn't be doing and make yourself the man of God that YOU need to be.

 

[Luther073082]

Dude, you seem to be focusing on what your girl friend should do for you if you get married, but you've totally taken yourself out of the equation. In order for her to be a biblical wife, you have to be a biblical husband. Stop focusing so much on what she should and shouldn't be doing and make yourself the man of God that YOU need to be.

That is a good point, if you are preparing to get married you need to be concentrating on what you need to do to be a biblical husband far more then you are wondering if she's going to do what she is suppose to do.

 

[Martinius]

Husbands and wives stand as equals under God. I find that some teachings imply that the husband answers to God and the wife answers to the husband. This is false teaching and puts the husband in the role of an idol. Rather, every person, regardless of sex, race ofr anything else that sets us apart from each other socially in this world, answers to God and God alone in the end and should be equally respected as His child.

... My husband now speaks to me and treats me as an equal whose thoughts, opinions and decisions are worthy of as much respect as his, and we are BOTH happier than we have ever been. I now feel respected as a sister in Christ instead of a member of the weaker sex who needs to be bossed around and kept quiet. Thank the Lord!

First, it is wonderful that you have been able to restore and rebuild your marriage; congratulations. I pray that it will continue to be a long and happy union. I like your point about placing the husband in the role of an idol; that will not make for a happy or good marriage. Husband and wife both answer to God, as you say, and if they are in agreement on that critical point neither will want to or need to lord it over the other.

I agree with what the other recent posts have said. Your spouse is your partner, not your employee or your servant. In my many years I have seen very good marriages and some very bad marriages. Invariably, the very good (and happy) ones are those where each spouse truly loves, cares for and respects the other. Those are the marriages that are following the will of God.

 

[PaulOguns]

Respect is extremely important to men, nothing will anger a man quicker than disrespect especially from the woman he loves. When a man feels disrespected he will pull away and it can really do a lot of damage to the male ego and confidence. So if you want a happy husband, respect him, respecting him doesnt mean being his slave and letting him get away with murder, it just means respecting him, not talking down at him and critising him, not making him feel useless and unneeded. Might seem like little things but trust me it goes a long way.