How important is physical attraction when considering marriage?

[bèlla]

God created beauty and it isn’t sinful to recognize it. Your willingness to ask the question and request input demonstrates maturity and humility.

Consider her influence and the impact she has on your person. Most answers will probably reference behavioral and spiritual qualities. This suggests the balance you seek already exists.

Congratulations on your pairing.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

 

[Hermit76]

Be careful. If your interest in physical attraction is driven by your lustful passions then you will have problems. No one can satisfy those passions for a man. This will lead to frustrations, doubt, and be grounds for temptation. Sex is not for fun. We're fortunate that it is so enjoyable. But most of your married life is every other detail. I'm getting older and I'm just now understanding this. Ask yourself how you would feel about this person if you agreed to abstain from sex for the first 5 years of marriage. Would all of their attributes contribute to a solid Orthodox home?
I have so much more I'd like to say that is private. PM me if you like. We've been married almost 25 years.

 

[RDKirk]

Human beings are not controlled by natural instinct (and Christians particularly should not be).

"I can't help what I like" is a self-delusion, a lie.

Human beings like what we determine ourselves to like. And human beings can change what we like. There is a multi-billion dollar advertising industry dedicated to keeping us constantly changing what we like.

Black people did it back in the 60s when we decided to like natural hair styles, for instance. We made a rational, deliberate decision: "That's beautiful."

There are white men who were never taught as children by either parents or society to see the features of black women as beautiful...but then met black women who were fully satisfying to them in other ways, and those men actually changed their own heads to see at least those particular black women as beautiful. Human beings can do that.

And if we propose to be married for a lifetime, we must do that, because our spouses will certainly change over time, and we must change our standard of loveliness to keep pace.

If a man's wife is thin, his standard of beauty should be "thin." If his wife is thick, his standard of beauty should be "thick." If his wife used to be thin, his standard of beauty should be "used to be thin."

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I married, though my father had said, don't marry into another culture, and don't doubt she will turn into her mother. I looked at her mother and said, "no way she will look like that." I was wrong about that, and wrong to ignore the warning about culture differences.

The boy says to his father, "Dad, I learned in school today that in some cultures, a man doesn't know his wife until he marries her." "No, son --that's everywhere!"

Idk there are some women who look more like their fathers, me included. The older I get the more I look like both my parents however, I look so much like my dad it’s hard to say I’ll ever end up looking like my mother.
I’ve seen many women who come from abusive homes, such as my grandmother, who were terrified of becoming their mother. It is possible to not become your mother. You just have to be aware and insightful about it.
Also, I’ve seen many multicultural marriages that have lasted and are very happy. My grandparents were multicultural (Japanese-American) and I’ve seen just so so many.

 

[ArmyMatt]

important? yes. most important? not by a mile.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Idk there are some women who look more like their fathers, me included. The older I get the more I look like both my parents however, I look so much like my dad it’s hard to say I’ll ever end up looking like my mother.
I’ve seen many women who come from abusive homes, such as my grandmother, who were terrified of becoming their mother. It is possible to not become your mother. You just have to be aware and insightful about it.
Also, I’ve seen many multicultural marriages that have lasted and are very happy. My grandparents were multicultural (Japanese-American) and I’ve seen just so so many.

If you saw pictures of my wife and her mother side by side, (at the same age), you might not know they were even related. That isn't my point. But she at 50 was most very definitely not what I was attracted to at 20.

As for cross-cultural, no, we were both Christians, and Americans, same 'race', and even alike as far as personality in some ways, but very different in focus, demeanor, mindset, upbringing and expectations out of marriage.

Her parents twice had car wrecks from fighting on the way to church. I NEVER saw or heard my parents fight --not even argue. (I remember the fear and shock from hearing one say to the other, "No, dear. It was 1947 that happened!" lol) Her parents were semi-charismatic. My parents were fundamentalist missionaries. I'm an MK, my wife never left the States.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I agree there. I think I put too much stock in physical attraction, but I also know it’s important to a degree. I’m trying to figure out that degree.

Knowing even before marriage my weakness for the flesh, I felt guilty for years that sex was so much about simple desire, and not love. Simultaneously, I knew desire is only what it is, but I wanted my self-indulgence to be pure and Godly --which to my mind was almost self-contradictory. I'm guessing that is the sort of thing you fear.

To my mind, what I'm about to say is not off-topic: I have found out that God does not put the same kind of (not at all meaning "degree of") importance on our lives and motivations that we do. Where we are in our walk is precisely where he planned for us to be at any one point. He uses EVERYTHING, wastes nothing, in his work to produce in us the very member of the Body he made us for. I have had to give up the notion (and the expectation) that marriage in this life follows any pattern that he planned for all marriages. (Hence, my reference to Hosea (who was ordered by God to marry a prostitute), in another post. Hosea was not the only exception to the rule. We all are exceptions to the rule!)

So our walk with God. Obedience and purity is both more important (in one way) and less important (in another way) than we can know. My conclusion in all this has become: This life is not for this life. And so, my marriage is for God's sake, not mine, not even hers.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I see. So it is up to the person’s goals for marriage as well in hearing you say here. I want (and she wants) to homeschool children in an Orthodox manner and this is priority. So that’s another thing I like about her. But, that’s not a physical attractiveness feature, haha, more family goals.

Well that sounds great. Did she have this interest pre-Covid? Now with Covid, I think lots of people are thinking about this sort of thing. But if she was talking about this before Covid then that is something that is extraordinary. I would probably put a ring on the finger myself. (And you don't or you shouldn't have to follow all the rules around that come from the diamond industry).


But anyway I have watched some videos both from a very popular Coptic priest, as well as this one atheist, but one that really appreciates the positive contributions of religion to society etc. On the topic of love and marriage, they both agree that we as a society have a lot of romantic ideas that don't hold up. I'm especially talking to notions like "finding the One", Soul mates etc. Those kind of ideas can be very harmful, because the truth is you can be compatible and happy with many ladies if you have the shared goals and values and the right attitudes about life, good Christian morals and ethics.


In some ways, you should be thankful that you already got a prospect that is already Orthodox. There are a lot more Catholic believers in the US than EO and OO, but sometimes even they can't find a good match in the their parish, or the place they live and have to go out hunting outside of that.

 

[Hermit76]

Knowing even before marriage my weakness for the flesh, I felt guilty for years that sex was so much about simple desire, and not love. Simultaneously, I knew desire is only what it is, but I wanted my self-indulgence to be pure and Godly --which to my mind was almost self-contradictory. I'm guessing that is the sort of thing you fear.

To my mind, what I'm about to say is not off-topic: I have found out that God does not put the same kind of (not at all meaning "degree of") importance on our lives and motivations that we do. Where we are in our walk is precisely where he planned for us to be at any one point. He uses EVERYTHING, wastes nothing, in his work to produce in us the very member of the Body he made us for. I have had to give up the notion (and the expectation) that marriage in this life follows any pattern that he planned for all marriages. (Hence, my reference to Hosea (who was ordered by God to marry a prostitute), in another post. Hosea was not the only exception to the rule. We all are exceptions to the rule!)

So our walk with God. Obedience and purity is both more important (in one way) and less important (in another way) than we can know. My conclusion in all this has become: This life is not for this life. And so, my marriage is for God's sake, not mine, not even hers.

All is for our sake. We are not robots in some master script.

 

[nutroll]

One of my favorite songs says: "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. Sounds for my personal point of view get an ugly girl to marry you."

I think we often make too much of standards of beauty. When it comes to the natural world of mountains, trees, sunsets, etc. we are capable of such a wide view of what is beautiful, even while being able to appreciate those things that are even more spectacular than others as special. And yet when it comes to our fellow human beings, we tend to be very narrow in how we define beauty. We focus on lists of desirable qualities rather than simply admiring what is there and thanking God who creates beauty on this world.

My wife has been beautiful to me since I met her, but 12 years later, she bears only a passing resemblance to her former self. But while she's grown older (technically speaking of course, not officially), she's also the mother of my children now, she's my wife of 11 years, she's the person I have experienced great joys and great sorrows with. If you take marriage seriously, if you even try to love your wife as Christ lives the Church, she will always be beautiful to you.

Don't set out to marry someone that you think is ugly, but don't make an idol of some notion of beauty. Remember that idols are images of gods that don't exist. The qualities you seek may never be found all together in one person, and even if they do, it could be in a person whom you would be foolish to marry.

 

[Goodhuman]

It is important her soul to be beautiful.

 

[SingularityOne]

important? yes. most important? not by a mile.

What would you say is the hierarchy of importance if you had to give one?

 

[SingularityOne]

One of my favorite songs says: "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. Sounds for my personal point of view get an ugly girl to marry you."

I think we often make too much of standards of beauty. When it comes to the natural world of mountains, trees, sunsets, etc. we are capable of such a wide view of what is beautiful, even while being able to appreciate those things that are even more spectacular than others as special. And yet when it comes to our fellow human beings, we tend to be very narrow in how we define beauty. We focus on lists of desirable qualities rather than simply admiring what is there and thanking God who creates beauty on this world.

My wife has been beautiful to me since I met her, but 12 years later, she bears only a passing resemblance to her former self. But while she's grown older (technically speaking of course, not officially), she's also the mother of my children now, she's my wife of 11 years, she's the person I have experienced great joys and great sorrows with. If you take marriage seriously, if you even try to love your wife as Christ lives the Church, she will always be beautiful to you.

Don't set out to marry someone that you think is ugly, but don't make an idol of some notion of beauty. Remember that idols are images of gods that don't exist. The qualities you seek may never be found all together in one person, and even if they do, it could be in a person whom you would be foolish to marry.

I totally agree with all of this. It seems like you’re saying beauty encompasses much more than the physical considering it’s narrow to think that way. What would you say would be a wider and more accurate way to describe beauty so that I can expand my vision?

 

[Mark Quayle]

All is for our sake. We are not robots in some master script.

You may have inferred that we are robots from what I said, but I did not imply it.

All is for God's sake --he is doing all this for HIS own sake. Not to say it isn't also for the sake of the Elect --it is-- but that is secondary.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

From Fiddler on the Roof, I can relate after 27 years of marriage

Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought with him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?

Then you love me?

I suppose I do

And I suppose I love you too
It doesn't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know

 

[SingularityOne]

From Fiddler on the Roof, I can relate after 27 years of marriage

Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought with him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?

Then you love me?

I suppose I do

And I suppose I love you too
It doesn't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know

Thank you for sharing this!

 

[SingularityOne]

Also, knowing there is already a really low Orthodox Christian population... my mind goes to thinking I either need to missionary date if I don't keep seeing her... persuade me otherwise and argue against me. I need some iron sharpening iron on this thought, lol.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What would you say is the hierarchy of importance if you had to give one?

dunno, but physical attraction would not be at the top

 

[SingularityOne]

dunno, but physical attraction would not be at the top

What would be the top criteria in your opinion then?

 

[SingularityOne]

God created beauty and it isn’t sinful to recognize it. Your willingness to ask the question and request input demonstrates maturity and humility.

Consider her influence and the impact she has on your person. Most answers will probably reference behavioral and spiritual qualities. This suggests the balance you seek already exists.

Congratulations on your pairing.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Thank you. She's a wonderful woman and is beautiful inside and out. I just need to spend some more time with her to determine the impact and influence she has on my person as we haven't spent much time in-person together yet as this is long-distance.