How important is God's and Messiah's names?

[CryptoLutheran]

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts in this sub-forum concerning the what is God's name and what is the Messiah's name.

My personal view is that God's name is Yeheveh/Yihyeh and Messiah's name is Yehoshua.

What's your view? And does it matter in your view if you got the right way to pronounce it? Is it a matter of salvation that you say Yeshua instead of Jesus or Jesus instead of Yeshua, etc?

Far as I'm aware the Tetragrammaton is still under debate as far as pronunciation.

The closest reconstruction of how Jesus would have been pronounced in His native Aramaic would have been something like Yeshu, Yeshua or Eashoa. Yeshua was a common late Hebrew/Aramaic form of the older Yehoshua (e.g. Yehoshua ben Nun), and is used of Yeshua the high priest in the book of the Prophet Zechariah.

I don't regard it as ultimately important. The New Testament rendered it as Iesous, it was Latinized as Iesus and after the advent of the letter 'J' to replace consonantal 'I' it became Jesus; which gained a hard sound in English and the first 's' took on an altered sound. Hence the pronunciation "Jee-zuss".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[TheGenuineChristian]

I tried it with the word "infrastructure" and it didn't work. It just sounded like "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".

Well, "hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" doesn't sound like "yahweh" now does it?

 

[O.F.F.]

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts in this sub-forum concerning the what is God's name and what is the Messiah's name.

My personal view is that God's name is Yeheveh/Yihyeh and Messiah's name is Yehoshua.

What's your view? And does it matter in your view if you got the right way to pronounce it? Is it a matter of salvation that you say Yeshua instead of Jesus or Jesus instead of Yeshua, etc?

Personally, my take is that the Bible speaks of God by many names (Jehovah, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, etc.) so the proper pronunciation doesn't really matter. What matters is that you are referring to the right (correct) God; the One True Living (Triune) God of the Bible; regardless of whether you are referring to God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) or God the Holy Spirit.

Also I might add the fact that just as God expects us to be true to our word, He holds Himself to the same standard. For in Psalms 138:2 it says (my paraphrase) in part, "for you, oh Lord, have magnified thy Word above all thy Name.” This makes sense, because of all the many ways in which God has revealed Himself (His name), there is no greater way than by His Word.

Take for example, General Revelation (nature & science) one of the many ways God has revealed Himself to humankind. It does not show us the depravity of our sin and our desparate need for a Savior; although the human conscience is very much a part of General Revelation. Yet the Law (His Word) affirms General Revelation as well as our wretched sinfulness (Romans 3:19-20). More importantly, General Revelation does not reveal the remedy for man's sinful predicament; the Gospel; the way of salvation (the Living Word) Jesus Christ our Lord. Only the Word of God can do that (John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:15-20).

Moreover, if His Word is not reliable, if His Word is not trustworthy, if we cannot count on His promises to be fulfilled, then His name would be meaningless. Barnes' biblical commentary puts it this way:

Above all thy name - Above all else that thou hast done; above all the other manifestations of thyself to me or to the world. The word name here would refer properly to all that God had done to make himself known - since it is by the name that we designate or distinguish anyone; and, thus understood, the meaning would be, that the word of God - the revelation which he has made of himself and of his gracious purposes to mankind - is superior in clearness, and in importance, to all the other manifestations which he has made of himself; all that can be known of him in his works.

 

[TheGenuineChristian]

Personally, my take is that the Bible speaks of God by many names (Jehovah, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, etc.)

None of those are names except for Yhvh, and Jehovah and Yahweh are both based on Yhvh so there is no point in saying it twice. And AVIYAD is 'Father of Eternity' not 'Everlasting Father.' And God is not the 'Prince of Peace' but the 'King of Peace' or 'God of peace.'

 

[timbo3]

At Isaiah 42:8, God says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." In answering Moses question about his name to be explained to the sons of Israel before going to Pharoah in 1513 B.C.E., God told Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’” (Ex 3:14, New World Translation)

He then says: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."(Ex 3:15, New World Translation)

The name Jehovah is the English translation of the Hebrew consonants YHWH, corresponding to the Latin letters JHVH. This name is to be memorialized for all eternity, and will be "put on high" in the near future, at Armageddon, when those who have reproached this name, which includes the churches for hiding his name, will "enter into the rock and (to) hide yourself in the dust because of the dreadfulness of Jehovah, and from his splendid superiority." (Isa 2:10, 11, 17)

The name Jehovah is the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”. Though Scripturally designated by such descriptive titles as “God,” “Sovereign Lord,” “Creator,” “Father,” “the Almighty,” and “the Most High,” his personality and attributes—who and what he is—are fully summed up and expressed only in this personal name.

“Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars, though there are five different ways, depending upon vowel pointing, as Yahweh, Yehowah, Yehwih, Yehwah, and Yehowih.

The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek te·tra-, meaning “four,” and gram´ma, “letter”). These four letters (written from right to left) are יהוה and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).

The apostle Paul, in quoting from Joel 2:32, wrote to the Romans: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13) Proverbs 18:10 says: "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection."

Of the Christ (Greek ) or the Messiah's (Hebrew) name, Jesus is the one established in English, originating from Latin, Iesous in Greek, which corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ (shortened form, rendered as Joshua in English) or Yehoh·shu´a‛ (full name, rendered as Jehoshua in English) and means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

 

[TheGenuineChristian]

At Isaiah 42:8, God says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." In answering Moses question about his name to be explained to the sons of Israel before going to Pharoah in 1513 B.C.E., God told Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’” (Ex 3:14, New World Translation)

He then says: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."(Ex 3:15, New World Translation)

The name Jehovah is the English translation of the Hebrew consonants YHWH, corresponding to the Latin letters JHVH. This name is to be memorialized for all eternity, and will be "put on high" in the near future, at Armageddon, when those who have reproached this name, which includes the churches for hiding his name, will "enter into the rock and (to) hide yourself in the dust because of the dreadfulness of Jehovah, and from his splendid superiority." (Isa 2:10, 11, 17)

The name Jehovah is the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”. Though Scripturally designated by such descriptive titles as “God,” “Sovereign Lord,” “Creator,” “Father,” “the Almighty,” and “the Most High,” his personality and attributes—who and what he is—are fully summed up and expressed only in this personal name.

“Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars, though there are five different ways, depending upon vowel pointing, as Yahweh, Yehowah, Yehwih, Yehwah, and Yehowih.

The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek te·tra-, meaning “four,” and gram´ma, “letter&#8221. These four letters (written from right to left) are יהוה and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).

The apostle Paul, in quoting from Joel 2:32, wrote to the Romans: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13) Proverbs 18:10 says: "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection."

Of the Christ (Greek ) or the Messiah's (Hebrew) name, Jesus is the one established in English, originating from Latin, Iesous in Greek, which corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ (shortened form, rendered as Joshua in English) or Yehoh·shu´a‛ (full name, rendered as Jehoshua in English) and means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

Hoveh (הֹוֶ&#1492 means 'He is.'

In Hebrew the roots היה (hayah) and הוה (havah) are used interchangeably, for example the past and future tenses are conjugated הָיִיתִי hayiti ("I was"), הָיִיתָ/הָיִית hayita/hayit ("you [m./f.] were"), הָיָה/הָיְתָה hayah/haytah ("he/she was") and אֶהְיֶה ehyeh ("I shall be"), תִּהְיֶה/תִּהְיִי tihyeh/tihyi ("you [m./f.] will be"), יִהְיֶה/תִּהְיֶה yihyeh/tihyeh ("he/she will be") respectively but the imperative is הֱוֵה hevéh, "be!" as in B'réshıt 27:29 (or הֱוֵא hevé as in Iyyov 37:6) and the virtually unused present participle is הֹוֶה/הֹוָה hoveh/hovah "being" as in Kohelet 2:22, Y'ḥezkél 7:26 etc.

I disagree with the name 'Yehoveh' and say it is Yeheveh ( יֶהֱוֵה ) which means 'He Will Be' which is basically the same as Ehyeh (Exodus 3:14) which means 'I Will Be.'

NOTE: The letters of YHVH are broken down into three Hebrew words that is basically the same thing in the Book of Revelation: []הָיָה[] hayah (he was), []הֹוֶה[] hoveh (he is) and []יִהְיֶה[] yih'yeh (he will be).

 

[thesunisout]

Exactly brother. It's as if the Father doesn't know who you're praying to..Like the operator at the switchboard is going to reroute the call because you got a syllable wrong. The Father knows all of His children, as if this even needs to be stated, and He hears the prayers of those who love Him. It's all about what is in our hearts..and what comes out of our mouths is an overflow of that. If you love God, you're going to know the right words, because God will lead you to them.

Personally, my take is that the Bible speaks of God by many names (Jehovah, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, etc.) so the proper pronunciation doesn't really matter. What matters is that you are referring to the right (correct) God; the One True Living (Triune) God of the Bible; regardless of whether you are referring to God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) or God the Holy Spirit.

Also I might add the fact that just as God expects us to be true to our word, He holds Himself to the same standard. For in Psalms 138:2 it says (my paraphrase) in part, "for you, oh Lord, have magnified thy Word above all thy Name.” This makes sense, because of all the many ways in which God has revealed Himself (His name), there is no greater way than by His Word.

Take for example, General Revelation (nature & science) one of the many ways God has revealed Himself to humankind. It does not show us the depravity of our sin and our desparate need for a Savior; although the human conscience is very much a part of General Revelation. Yet the Law (His Word) affirms General Revelation as well as our wretched sinfulness (Romans 3:19-20). More importantly, General Revelation does not reveal the remedy for man's sinful predicament; the Gospel; the way of salvation (the Living Word) Jesus Christ our Lord. Only the Word of God can do that (John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:15-20).

Moreover, if His Word is not reliable, if His Word is not trustworthy, if we cannot count on His promises to be fulfilled, then His name would be meaningless. Barnes' biblical commentary puts it this way:

 

[timbo3]

God's name is rendered in the English language as Jehovah, and was first used by Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, rendering the divine name as "Jehova" in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E. Many Hebrew scholars now favor the pronunciation “Yahweh.” Yet no one today actually can say with certainty how Moses pronounced the divine name.

For example, the meaning of Hebrew, היהא רשא היהא (’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´) at Exodus 3:14 has been translated as “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” This points to God’s own self-designation. Isaac Leeser renders it as “I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE”; Rotherham, “I Will Become whatsoever I please.” Some translations render ’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´ as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah´, from which the word ’Eh·yeh´ is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather, it means “become,” or “prove to be.”

In the Greek, it is E·go´ ei·mi ho on, “I am The Being,” or, “I am The Existing One”. In Latin, e´go sum qui sum, “I am Who I am.” At Exodus 3:14, ’Eh·yeh´ is in the imperfect state, first person singular, meaning “I shall become”; or, “I shall prove to be.” The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. At Genesis 2:4, the name “Jehovah" is vowel pointed as the Hebrew verb ha·wah´ instead of the Hebrew verb ha·yah´, appearing in the divine name and is rendered as Yehwah´. This is the first occurrence of God’s distinctive personal name in the Bible.

The online interlinear Scripture4all reads for ’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´ as "I shall become who I am becoming" at Exodus 3:14. Many translators and the churches have shown a extreme prejudice against the divine name. For instance, in a letter dated June 29, 2008, to presidents of Catholic bishops’ conferences, the Vatican stated: “In recent years the practice has crept in of pronouncing the God of Israel’s proper name.” The letter gives this pointed direction: “The name of God . . . is neither to be used or pronounced.” Furthermore, “for the translation of the Biblical text in modern languages, . . . the divine tetragrammaton is to be rendered by the equivalent of Adonai/Kyrios: ‘Lord.’” Clearly, this Vatican directive is aimed at eliminating the use of God’s name.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I've read that some of the early Christians (like Marcion for example) called Jesus "Chrestus", meaning the good one, rather than "Christus". Christians were also called Chrestians.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Is this true?

"Not many know that the Sinaiticus manuscript has a peculiar way of spelling the word Christian. Everywhere this title appears, that Fourth Century manuscript spells it "Chrestian." Vaticanus, a manuscript of the same age, utilizes a slightly transitional spelling: "Chreistian." "

"In Christian bible translations, Christian appears in three places; Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, and 1 Peter 4:16. The oldest known Greek manuscript of the New Testament is the Sinaiticus, the second oldest is the Vaticanus. Neither of these texts contain the Greek term Christian. However, copies made after these replace the original Greek termXPHCTIAN (CHRESTIAN) with XPICTIAN (CHRISTIAN)"

"The good ones (chrestoi) shall be dwellers in the land, and the innocent shall be
left on it but they that transgress shall be destroyed utterly from it." - Epistle to the Corinthians 14:4 (clement of Rome)

 

[Soulgazer]

You will know a tree by it's fruit. I translate this to mean that the people whom I meet that are gentle loving humble souls are the fruit of the tree of God, and the warmongering, argumentative, bigoted and "my way or your wrong" are the fruit of the devil. If we are not saved by our actions, but by our hearts, then God alone knows who goes where and why.


Yes, the Roman records show that they used to throw "Crestians" to the lions. Not surprising, considering the size of the Marcionite denomination.

The disturbing thing about the "bride of christ" is that she is a harlot, who spread her legs for every king. Each cell in her body is a reformed prostitute though, and that is the great redemption.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Yes, the Roman records show that they used to throw "Crestians" to the lions. Not surprising, considering the size of the Marcionite denomination.

And catholics like to claim all the early martyrs for themselves. Many of them were in fact Chrestians rather than Christians.

 

[Soulgazer]

And catholics like to claim all the early martyrs for themselves. Many of them were in fact Chrestians rather than Christians.

I don't think any human is qualified to make that distinction, though many would like to think themselves glorious enough to. I don't think there is any way that a hand should say to a foot, "we don't need you, because you are really not part of us". Only the Mind can say that, and that belongs to Christ alone. Just my opinion.

It was prophesied in Thomas, I think, "(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

I have tried to learn to see the kingdom, and I think everybody has a place in it, weather they can see or even if they just stumble through.

 

[JCFantasy23]

This thread is fascinating to me. Have learned things I've never heard before. Hopefully others may find this as well or at least get new ideas and revelations to ponder. Thanks for the starting the thread and adding so much to my personal studies/experience.