How Hard Determinism turns God into the devil and Grace into a myth.

[Grip Docility]

That’s not the subject of the OP.

Am I not the OP? Is the very title not a counter perspective to another OP that attempts to debase the concept of LBF?

The subtext is written in and I assure you it is a very critical part of the OP.

 

[Grip Docility]

Your OP gave indication that there are some theologies that teach that God mind-controls. That seems to be your understanding of Determinism. So I’m asking you for support of that claim.

LBF equals autonomy.
No LBF equals Control.

Mind, heart and Soul Control if one were to get enormously specific.

Subtext is present and now revealed.

 

[Hammster]

Am I not the OP? Is the very title not a counter perspective to another OP that attempts to debase the concept of LBF?

The subtext is written in and I assure you it is a very critical part of the OP.

Yes, you are the OP. Which is why I’ve repeatedly asked you to support your OP, which you’ve still not done.

 

[Hammster]

LBF equals autonomy.
No LBF equals Control.

Mind, heart and Soul Control if one were to get enormously specific.

Subtext is present and now revealed.

That doesn’t address my post. Your OP gave indication that there are some theologies that teach that God mind-controls. That seems to be your understanding of Determinism. So I’m asking you for support of that claim. In other words, which theologies teach this?

 

[Grip Docility]

That doesn’t address my post. Your OP gave indication that there are some theologies that teach that God mind-controls. That seems to be your understanding of Determinism. So I’m asking you for support of that claim. In other words, which theologies teach this?

Determinism teaches Control

Molinism teaches Autonomy

 

[Grip Docility]

Yes, you are the OP. Which is why I’ve repeatedly asked you to support your OP, which you’ve still not done.

The very OP is a posit. In its confines, answers aren’t given to questions that are normally answered by determinists without issue.

Wouldn’t this suggest the OP has more validity than it is being given credit to have?

 

[Hammster]

Determinism teaches Control

Molinism teaches Autonomy

So which theologies teach Determinism?

 

[Grip Docility]

So which theologies teach Determinism?

Determinism teaches theologically loaded determinism that is based on control, that is blind to human LBF.

Molinism teaches Relationship that responds to LBF, which was endowed to Creation by the Creator.

IMO

 

[Hammster]

The very OP is a posit. In its confines, answers aren’t given to questions that are normally answered by determinists without issue.

Wouldn’t this suggest the OP has more validity than it is being given credit to have?

Your OP may indeed be valid. But you are refusing to answer qualifying questions.

 

[Hammster]

Determinism teaches theologically loaded determinism that is based on control, that is blind to human LBF.

Molinism teaches Relationship that responds to LBF, which was endowed to Creation by the Creator.

IMO

Okay. Which theologies teach Determinism?

 

[Grip Docility]

Your OP may indeed be valid. But you are refusing to answer qualifying questions.

Is it wrong to not answer a question?

I believe a previous question went unanswered earlier that I myself asked.

Quid pro Quo

 

[Grip Docility]

Okay. Which theologies teach Determinism?

Perhaps the theology with the name “determinism”. And, I don’t mean this to be a smarty pants. But, I mean this like Ben Shapiro pointed out the Boy Scouts is for boys and the proof is in the name... “Boy Scouts”.

 

[Hammster]

Is it wrong to not answer a question?

I believe a previous question went unanswered earlier that I myself asked.

Quid pro Quo

I’m not the OP. The OP isn’t about my beliefs. So your question changed the subject.

 

[NoahSK]

Even Jesus said; “Father not “My Will”, but “Your Will”.

2 distinct wills.

God the Father’s and God the Son’s

How much more different are our wills from God the Father’s and God the Son’s?

LBF is justified as biblical if the logic is properly evaluated.

To my knowledge, that was Jesus speaking through His human nature. Remember, He was also fully man, and even though He didn't sin, He still had the natural human desire to avoid pain. As a member of the Trinity, He was in total agreement with the Father, as well as the Spirit. God cannot contradict Himself. The Son's will was in complete agreement with the other members'. It was His human will that He acquired upon the incarnation that was different than the will of the Father at that time. Even so, He still conquered the flesh in this moment, submitting to the will of God, and so remaining sinless. Sorry, just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Hammster]

Perhaps the theology with the name “determinism”. And, I don’t mean this to be a smarty pants. But, I mean this like Ben Shapiro pointed out the Boy Scouts is for boys and the proof is in the name... “Boy Scouts”.

At this point, then, you’ve made up a theology. If no group teaches this, then it’s entirely in your mind and there’s no point in further discussion. It would be like saying that there’s a group that teaches four persons in the Godhead. Is there someone out there that believes this? I’m sure. But why talk about it?

 

[Grip Docility]

To my knowledge, that was Jesus speaking through His human nature. Remember, He was also fully man, and even though He didn't sin, He still had the natural human desire to avoid pain. As a member of the Trinity, He was in total agreement with the Father, as well as the Spirit. God cannot contradict Himself. The Son's will was in complete agreement with the other members'. It was His human will that He acquired upon the incarnation that was different than the will of the Father at that time. Even so, He still conquered the flesh in this moment, submitting to the will of God, and so remaining sinless. Sorry, just thought I'd throw that out there.

Understood and fair to add. As the substance is One, and Jesus walked among us One, yet it is fair to point this out.

This gets more interesting every second.

 

[Grip Docility]

At this point, then, you’ve made up a theology. If no group teaches this, then it’s entirely in your mind and there’s no point in further discussion. It would be like saying that there’s a group that teaches four persons in the Godhead. Is there someone out there that believes this? I’m sure. But why talk about it?

There is validity to this discussion and determinism remains determinism. If an elephant is an elephant, I can’t call it a Zebra, rightly so.

 

[Hammster]

There is validity to this discussion and determinism remains determinism. If an elephant is an elephant, I can’t call it a Zebra, rightly so.

But if nobody believes Determinism, why discuss it?

 

[Grip Docility]

But if nobody believes Determinism, why discuss it?

But people do believe it.

 

[His student]

Does anything happen in all of Creation that is outside of God’s will?

In some sense - NO.

Yet He tells us in His Word that He is not culpable for and deserving of punishment due sins done within that will.

He further tells us that, when it sees through the glass more clearly, the entire creation will understand and agree that He is altogether just for holding sinners culpable and not Himself.

But in spite of it all He took the punishment for the sins of the world upon Himself.

What a gracious God we serve.