How gendered clothing makes more problems for all of us

[teresa]

clothing can cause us to not be liked or to be more popular or to be morally judged by both the opposite sex as well as the same sex.

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Clothing can show chest and hips in both men and women, as well as the buttocks


can people here expound on these concepts as well as share why it would or wold not work, and also share stories of their clothing adventures!

 

[JustSomeBloke]

It's those doing the shaming that need to adjust their behaviour, not those being shamed. Anything else is just a form of victim blaming.

Also worth remembering that God created men and women naked, and without shame. The shame only began after they sinned.

 

[Paidiske]

From what I've read, Islamic modesty codes get pretty strongly policed, and women who - even accidentally - violate them do get into a lot of trouble.

I'm not sure it solves the problem, rather than just moving the area of focus, if that makes sense?

 

[Dave-W]

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Yeah - that doesn't work. I read a study once in a country with some women wearing "immodest" western clothing AND others wearing islamic burkas. Those wearing the burkas got more "cat calls" and were groped more often than those wearing less.

 

[Dave-W]

Also worth remembering that God created men and women naked, and without shame. The shame only began after they sinned.

Indeed.

I agree despite the "holiness" teaching I grew up with that Adam and Eve had this big ball of golden light that enveloped them from shoulders to knees. (so they were not REALLY naked)

 

[GodsGrace101]

clothing can cause us to not be liked or to be more popular or to be morally judged by both the opposite sex as well as the same sex.

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Clothing can show chest and hips in both men and women, as well as the buttocks


can people here expound on these concepts as well as share why it would or wold not work, and also share stories of their clothing adventures!

My goodness.
You want everyone to become muslim?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Indeed.

I agree despite the "holiness" teaching I grew up with that Adam and Eve had this big ball of golden light that enveloped them from shoulders to knees. (so they were not REALLY naked)

Funny, but I agree.

 

[Dave-W]

Funny, but I agree.

You agree that God made us naked, or that we had that ball of light?

 

[GodsGrace101]

You agree that God made us naked, or that we had that ball of light?

Both!
I just never thought of it that way.
They were INNOCENT before the fall. Naked did not exist.
And, yes, they were covered in God's light.

 

[High Fidelity]

clothing can cause us to not be liked or to be more popular or to be morally judged by both the opposite sex as well as the same sex.

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Clothing can show chest and hips in both men and women, as well as the buttocks


can people here expound on these concepts as well as share why it would or wold not work, and also share stories of their clothing adventures!

I don't think it would make much difference.

Personally, I love formal wear on a woman and there's a world of difference between an outfit that 'will do' and an outfit that has been carefully curated by someone with style in mind.

Fit also makes a difference, too, but generally speaking a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman whether she's wearing form-fitting pants or wide-legged pants.

It also goes beyond simply clothing. I, for example, notice and appreciate the smaller details and lengths a woman goes to. If she did her hair and/or has a nice manicure, I can certainly appreciate that level of detail.

I think it's disingenuous to say most people don't turn their head to look at someone in passing sometimes. But there's a big difference between that and hollering at them. If I see someone that's attractive then I'll think as much to myself, but I'm not going to start verbally falling over myself to tell her as much; it's unnecessary.

 

[Dave-W]

Both!
I just never thought of it that way.
They were INNOCENT before the fall. Naked did not exist.
And, yes, they were covered in God's light.

Actually, it cannot be both ways. The Hebrew word for naked** also means undefended and laid bare. If a ball of light hid everything on them from shoulders to knees, they were not naked.

Side note: that same word also means wise or clever.

** עָרוֹם arom

 

[GodsGrace101]

Actually, it cannot be both ways. The Hebrew word for naked** also means undefended and laid bare. If a ball of light hid everything on them from shoulders to knees, they were not naked.

Side note: that same word also means wise or clever.

** עָרוֹם arom

Picky, picky!!
Who would have seen them naked, anyway.

I like the meaning of the word "naked" in Hebrew.
They certainly were covered by the light of God.
They certainly were defended and not laid bare.
But it can't be both...
But they had no clothes on.

So you've given me something brand new to think about.
So you're saying they were clothed in the light of God...
His bright light, which I refer to so many times.

But, theologically, it's correct to say they were naked.
(I'm getting a headache!!)

Thanks for the reply. It's very interesting indeed.
Could you expound, or is that the entire thought?

 

[grasping the after wind]

clothing can cause us to not be liked or to be more popular or to be morally judged by both the opposite sex as well as the same sex.

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Clothing can show chest and hips in both men and women, as well as the buttocks


can people here expound on these concepts as well as share why it would or wold not work, and also share stories of their clothing adventures!

Your proposal seems contradictory to the title of your OP to me. You have said that gendered clothing makes problems and proposed that a different type of gendered clothing for women might be the solution. I would have expected you to propose unisex clothing for all as the solution to gendered clothing.

 

[Dave-W]

Who would have seen them naked, anyway.

The same people that saw them naked after the fall: each other.

So you're saying they were clothed in the light of God...
His bright light, which I refer to so many times.

No - I am NOT saying that.

I am saying my Wesleyan Holiness (Church of the Nazarene) Sunday school taught that when I was a kid. I have since rejected that teaching.

Thanks for the reply. It's very interesting indeed.
Could you expound, or is that the entire thought?

The only "expounding" I can do is to give my opinion that the doctrine was rooted more in Victorian attitudes against showing skin rather than the bible.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The same people that saw them naked after the fall: each other.

No - I am NOT saying that.

I am saying my Wesleyan Holiness (Church of the Nazarene) Sunday school taught that when I was a kid. I have since rejected that teaching.

The only "expounding" I can do is to give my opinion that the doctrine was rooted more in Victorian attitudes against showing skin rather than the bible.

I went to a Nazarene church for over 10 years back in the 80's and 90's.

I never heard of this light of God TTYTT. I thought that you meant is as an analogy when you first mentioned it.

So then I guess we agree that they were naked, and that they became aware of it after the fall.

 

[bekkilyn]

I'd never heard of the ball of light theory. In the children's bibles I read, it seemed they were both naked and pictured behind trees or bushes and Eve's hair always covered everything up top. Then they were in the fig leaf loin cloths. So that was always kind of the picture I had in mind.

 

[eleos1954]

clothing can cause us to not be liked or to be more popular or to be morally judged by both the opposite sex as well as the same sex.

would this constant shaming over those who have and those who have not also be disappeared if we could implement modesty dressing where all women wear a large covering to prevent cat calls or getting into trouble at work or school for anything deemed inappropriate?

Clothing can show chest and hips in both men and women, as well as the buttocks

can people here expound on these concepts as well as share why it would or wold not work, and also share stories of their clothing adventures!

What? Although I don't like the way some people dress ... we don't need others "implementing" what someone should wear.

Who are the implementors? Who gives them the authority to implement? Get everyone to agree? Good luck with that one. ;o)

inappropriate? Who is going to decide?

implement -put (a decision, plan, agreement, etc.) into effect.

Take on the tone of clothing police ;o)

 

[teresa]

I feel stressed out. like I have to bear responsibility for mens lust

 

[teresa]

I couldn't control myself either when my bible class teacher wore tight jeans that showed his blessings

Maybe if he wore trousers, he wouldn't lead me into sinning with my eyes and heart

I mean, his blessings were sticking right out there

Perhaps a kilt would stop this?

 

[bekkilyn]

Why is one's own lust always someone else's fault? It's like Adam blaming God for Adam's sin in the garden, "The woman you gave me made me do it." Some things never change I suppose.