How Far Can We Love?

[skinnymike1]

Hello all, greetings in love. I have a situation that has been draining me over the last few years.

To give a brief overview it all started when I was little and my parents divorced, though my mom already had a son from a previous man but that wasn't the reason for the divorce. After dad left, mom had trouble taking care of all of us and we were in danger of going into foster care. My dad caught wind of this and won custody of me and my sister that he had by my mom. My mom was left to take care of her son whom she had by the other man.

So my dad raised my sister and I in another state and we had a nice life. Though it wasn't a good life for my mom and her son my half-brother. Soon after he took away my sister and I my mom lost her own son to foster care after some warnings. After that she has been asking for monetary help from her family for years and eventually became homeless years later, and still is.

The reason I say this is that I am in college currently and am trying to earn an engineering degree, but because of her arduous nature she has pushed away all family members who used to help her and focused on me.

I try to help with what money I have from financial aid and my school job but she demands it almost weekly, even requesting $200 every week to stay at a place she won't tell me where rather than a shelter. Any talk I try to reason with her she takes it as a conspiracy and twists my words and just wants to talk and not hear my side of things and basically is just very, very, very difficult to love. She even says how she is a Christian and tells me all the times she has read her Bible from cover to cover but she still likes to bring up confessed sin from my past to me. But in all of this she still says she loves me which makes this all the more harder to swallow.

I am on my last legs now because my sister doesn't want to help and I can't continue helping my mom in the way she wants. I keep telling her I don't have the money she is asking for but she insists I must be hiding it or she will say because she is worse off that she needs it more than me. I gave her most of my paycheck recently to help her out and she wasn't even concerned about my well-being or what sending that money cost me. I have rent to pay every month where I live, but she doesn't give any regard.

So I am basically wondering, even in all this, is it Christ's command to keep on loving in this situation with all that you have, or if there are some people who are contrary to you, even your own mother and father that you should cut them off and move on with your life? That is where I am right now. I appreciate any Christian counsel from fellow brothers and sisters.

 

[ValleyGal]

Does your mom have drug issues, disability, etc, that might be preventing her from finding a job> Is she in legitimate need, or is it need based on her own poor choices> The reason I ask is to see if you might be enabling her to continue using others to take care of her rather than learn how to stand on her own two feet.

If what you are doing is enabling her to stay stuck in her situation, then loving her looks a lot different than it does if she is working very hard on getting back on her own feet and just needs a leg-up. As you are working through the situation, ask yourself what loving her really means, what it looks like - IOW, ask yourself what her best interest is. Is it to give her cash, or is it to let her hit bottom so she can work her way back out; is it to buy her groceries or is it to let her make her own way to a soup kitchen.

Sometimes letting someone hit bottom (tough love) is the best thing for them. And while it's hard to see her suffer, tell her you love her too much to let her stay in her current situation and want nothing more than to see her work hard to get on her own feet.

 

[skinnymike1]

Thank you so much for your advice, I appreciate it really. I always thought that, because I am the last support she is standing on but I just so badly want her to return to her normal self because she wasn't always like this, at least not to this degree. She had a nice side, a kind side, but the years and events made her bitter.

As to her condition she has always been like this for at least a good 6 years now, but in 2013 she suffered a car accident but she never told me the true extent of her injuries. From what my half-brother said when he used to live around her before he left, he said she was able to walk. So she is not that quick and able to get a job as of yet.

She did tell me she was working on her papers to get her own apartment after she lost her documents like her ID and passport, and she just needed help until they cleared. She told me the help would last in December when I started giving her money help in around September, then September came and she said she needed the help till February for the papers to process. Well February has come and gone...

But I just want to help her until she can get her feet settled, but it's costing me too much and she won't come to grips with that.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

I think Valley Gal gave you great advice

it is important to figure out whether there are real issues holding your mom back

it sounds like she has physical issues due to her car accident.

another thing I kind of wondered is her mental health condition.

given her difficult and traumatic life experience, I kind of wonder whether it might have impacted on her mental health.

that might explain why she is really difficult to get on with

also when a person has difficult experiences and disappointments, it can distort a person's personality

so you might want to take that into consideration

you say your mother might be a Christian, but you are not sure

have you prayed for her salvation?

she needs God in her life, especially now

also with yourself, what social support do you have in place

it sounds like a bit overwhelmed by your mom....

 

[ValleyGal]

Does she now have ID>
Did she get a place to live>
What is she doing with the money (and is there evidence she is using it wisely)>

It's a really hard place to be in. The Bible tells us that if we do not provide for our families, we are "worse than unbelievers." But caring for your family might mean caring more to get them out of their dysfunction than it means to just give them money when they ask for it. If your mom is hungry, maybe she can come and have dinner with you, rather than you give her money. If she needs $50 to make her rent, give it directly to the landlord. And give her a serious talk... sit face to face, hold her hands in yours, and look her in the eye when you tell her how much you love her, but that you are struggling financially yourself and are simply unable to help her anymore, even if you wanted to. The secret is to convey your love for her.

When someone has had a lot of hard circumstances (your mom lost custody of you and your siblings, she had a car accident, she lost everything), it is mentally easier to become bitter than it is to maintain integrity, keep a soft heart and work towards some attainable goals to get back on your feet. Your mom is there... she's struggling, so good for you for having compassion on her - but be careful or you will also become bitter if you start resenting her neediness. If your talk with her comes to it, you can even tell her that - you do not want her requests for money to come between you. Your relationship is more important.

It's definitely not a comfortable situation for you. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

 

[BFine]

Don't hand over money out of guilt or high-handed
pressure tactics.
Don't give money to someone who's not being
honest with you about why they are constantly
needing money.

If the money is for bills, pay said bills yourself.
Set a limit on how much financial help you can
reasonably give to your mom or anyone else.

 

[skinnymike1]

Sorry for the late replies, being in engineering studies takes a lot of time. But I will reply as often as I am able. Thank you fo your patience and care.

 

[skinnymike1]

I think Valley Gal gave you great advice

it is important to figure out whether there are real issues holding your mom back

it sounds like she has physical issues due to her car accident.

another thing I kind of wondered is her mental health condition.

given her difficult and traumatic life experience, I kind of wonder whether it might have impacted on her mental health.

that might explain why she is really difficult to get on with

also when a person has difficult experiences and disappointments, it can distort a person's personality

so you might want to take that into consideration

you say your mother might be a Christian, but you are not sure

have you prayed for her salvation?

she needs God in her life, especially now

also with yourself, what social support do you have in place

it sounds like a bit overwhelmed by your mom....

Thank you for your input. I also wonder to her mental state as well because this also ties into her being a Christian, so to speak. Even before all this when everything was good, she would use God for everything and hide behind God in everything. That may seem weird to say, but like when I would even ask her what she ate or what she though of something, she would just redirect it to the Bible or God. She wouldn't have a normal conversation with me unless I "disguised" my questions.

But I also know she must have been through a lot with the divorce, losing us children, then her apartment. I feel for her and pray for her to be the person God needs her to be and not push us all away by her attitudes.

Social supports? I am confused by that question. If regard to the situation my dad is hands-off and my sister wants nothing to do with it and neither does my half-brother, and he was the one most hurt by her. I only have God.

Does she now have ID>
Did she get a place to live>
What is she doing with the money (and is there evidence she is using it wisely)>

It's a really hard place to be in. The Bible tells us that if we do not provide for our families, we are "worse than unbelievers." But caring for your family might mean caring more to get them out of their dysfunction than it means to just give them money when they ask for it. If your mom is hungry, maybe she can come and have dinner with you, rather than you give her money. If she needs $50 to make her rent, give it directly to the landlord. And give her a serious talk... sit face to face, hold her hands in yours, and look her in the eye when you tell her how much you love her, but that you are struggling financially yourself and are simply unable to help her anymore, even if you wanted to. The secret is to convey your love for her.

When someone has had a lot of hard circumstances (your mom lost custody of you and your siblings, she had a car accident, she lost everything), it is mentally easier to become bitter than it is to maintain integrity, keep a soft heart and work towards some attainable goals to get back on your feet. Your mom is there... she's struggling, so good for you for having compassion on her - but be careful or you will also become bitter if you start resenting her neediness. If your talk with her comes to it, you can even tell her that - you do not want her requests for money to come between you. Your relationship is more important.

It's definitely not a comfortable situation for you. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

Thank you very much sister. Well, she is working on getting her ID that she lost and she doesn't have a place to live as far as she tells me, and as to the money she doesn't tell me how she uses it or she will accuse me that I don't trust her and say what reason do I have to know. From my clues it might be a motel because it only lasts her a week before she has to leave, and she refuses to go to the main shelter in her area because of how she said they mistreated her when she really needed them.

As to her having dinner with me and paying her landlord, we currently live in different states as we have been ever since the divorce before I was 6 years old. I am 25 now so we have been apart for almost 20 years now, except for one time but that is another story.

Thank you for your counsel straight from the Word. What you said is true, I can see how she could become bitter from all of the pain she has gone through, but what hurts me is that she uses it all as a leverage to get help from us family members and when we say we can't help as much as we'd like she gets angry at us as if it's our fault we put her in the situation. But I know she is hurting and it makes me sad I can't reach her despite all my efforts and I do find myself wanting to get bitter by her. Thank you for the warning.

Don't hand over money out of guilt or high-handed
pressure tactics.
Don't give money to someone who's not being
honest with you about why they are constantly
needing money.

If the money is for bills, pay said bills yourself.
Set a limit on how much financial help you can
reasonably give to your mom or anyone else.

Thank you for the reply. I wish it was that easy because in order to send the money to the place she is staying and not to her directly then that would mean she would have to tell me where she stays which is impossible for her. She will throw accusations against me that I think she is a liar or that I don't trust my own mom. There isn't much reasoning with her.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Social supports? I am confused by that question. If regard to the situation my dad is hands-off and my sister wants nothing to do with it and neither does my half-brother, and he was the one most hurt by her. I only have God.

honestly, your mum doesn't sound like she is born again.

what I meant was do you have anyone from your Church, or Christian friends who can be there for you?

like guiding you, pray for you, and just someone who is willing to lent a ear when you feel overwhelmed or frustrated?

you know, people who can offer you practical and emotional support so you are not doing this on your own?

 

[1watchman]

Skinny, you can show love and honor to your mother as God expects, but that does not mean you should subscribe to her manners and ways; or feel guilty about her comments. Some things you can just ignore, and speak only on the positive, and keep the Gospel message before her always (refer her to the Gospel by John, which is a clear message for one who wants to live for God ---note also 2 Cor. 10:5 for yourself). She may come to see you are on a sound track in life and have a good spirit, which may speak more than what you can counsel her.

 

[skinnymike1]

honestly, your mum doesn't sound like she is born again.

what I meant was do you have anyone from your Church, or Christian friends who can be there for you?

like guiding you, pray for you, and just someone who is willing to lent a ear when you feel overwhelmed or frustrated?

you know, people who can offer you practical and emotional support so you are not doing this on your own?

Okay, that's what you mean. No, I don't really have friends and no one knows this in my church beyond me saying pray for my mom for her housing situation. I understand what you mean about me having these kind of people in my life who would sit down and care. Maybe I am just not that free in talking but I feel more comfortable being anonymous with my problem in a forum.

Skinny, you can show love and honor to your mother as God expects, but that does not mean you should subscribe to her manners and ways; or feel guilty about her comments. Some things you can just ignore, and speak only on the positive, and keep the Gospel message before her always (refer her to the Gospel by John, which is a clear message for one who wants to live for God ---note also 2 Cor. 10:5 for yourself). She may come to see you are on a sound track in life and have a good spirit, which may speak more than what you can counsel her.

Thank you for your support. It's hard not to feel that way and I feel guilty when I give myself "breaks" in not keeping in constant contact with her because it's just too much at times to handle her. That's why I posted the question, how far are we supposed to love in Christ. Doesn't it mean loving at all costs like Christ did for us, and that is what separates us from the world? But it just gets so hard and I wonder if this was the kind of loving Jesus was leveling at.

Thank you for the verse, I will be more prayerful in my thoughts.

 

[com7fy8]

You can pray about what God wants you to do. If He wants you to study and pay for that, and pay your bills, pay those expenses. And trust God to guide you how to help people with your money.

If a person has done things not responsibly with children, I would not trust what that person says, nor would I submit to how that person would guide and influence me. Trust God to guide you.

Satan can bust one of his people up, so then he can hold that person hostage in order to force you to give money for that person . . . instead of using money the way God wants. Make sure with God what He wants. But possibly God will have you do things to help your mother so you can share with her, including being a good example with her.

 

[1watchman]

Thank you for your support. It's hard not to feel that way and I feel guilty when I give myself "breaks" in not keeping in constant contact with her because it's just too much at times to handle her. That's why I posted the question, how far are we supposed to love in Christ. Doesn't it mean loving at all costs like Christ did for us, and that is what separates us from the world? But it just gets so hard and I wonder if this was the kind of loving Jesus was leveling at.

Thank you for the verse, I will be more prayerful in my thoughts.

Well, your "love in Christ", as you mentioned, should be a faithful witness, and since you have explained your limitations to your mom that is sufficient. She should not be pressing you further. Just seek always to honor God and do the right thing in your walk and testimony; and don't be feeling guilty over not giving all that your mom or anyone else presses you for. You know your limitations, so take care of your business and walk forward in communion with God. As we go forward through this world we need to be a light, as told, and that means to point souls to the Savior. Suggest to your mom to put the Lord Jesus first in her life, and direct her to the Gospel by John for peace and blessings.

I will pray for you in this and your studies.

 

[Goodbook]

Your situation sounds like what happend with the Gibeonites in the bible.

Ask God before you make any decisions regarding money.
You cant just give to people who say they love you but dont actually show it. Anybody can say those words.

 

[quietpraiyze]

Have you talked with your dad about any of this? Have you ever really sat down and talked to your dad about your mother? Your mother sounds like she has mental illness. I think you should talk with your dad. In the meantime, I don't think you should be giving her any more money because you don't know what she's doing with the money you give her and her needs seem to be greater than monetary. If she is in need of resources, she needs to go to her local Social Services. She also needs to respect your life and it doesn't seem like she's doing that.

You can't save your mother. The most you can do is give her a list of resources and let her choose. You have to tell her to stop asking you for money. You may also need to figure out why you're really doing what your doing for your mother. What is driving you? Is it love or is it guilt? The best thing you can probably do for your mother is to pray for her.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Your situation is not an easy one. May the Lord bless you with His wisdom and peace and bring His healing deliverance to your situation.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Okay, that's what you mean. No, I don't really have friends and no one knows this in my church beyond me saying pray for my mom for her housing situation. I understand what you mean about me having these kind of people in my life who would sit down and care. Maybe I am just not that free in talking but I feel more comfortable being anonymous with my problem in a forum.




.

sorry to hear this

may the faithful God bless you and your family greatly

 

[skinnymike1]

You can pray about what God wants you to do. If He wants you to study and pay for that, and pay your bills, pay those expenses. And trust God to guide you how to help people with your money.

If a person has done things not responsibly with children, I would not trust what that person says, nor would I submit to how that person would guide and influence me. Trust God to guide you.

Satan can bust one of his people up, so then he can hold that person hostage in order to force you to give money for that person . . . instead of using money the way God wants. Make sure with God what He wants. But possibly God will have you do things to help your mother so you can share with her, including being a good example with her.

Thank you. I have been praying, very much so. I am trying to listen to what God would have me do but honestly it's hard because I haven't been hearing anything.

I would think not to trust that person too but because she happens to be my mother I thought that would trump anything else when it comes to that.

Yes, I will still continue and ask God and hopefully I can hear Him soon. I am open to what possibilities may come.

Well, your "love in Christ", as you mentioned, should be a faithful witness, and since you have explained your limitations to your mom that is sufficient. She should not be pressing you further. Just seek always to honor God and do the right thing in your walk and testimony; and don't be feeling guilty over not giving all that your mom or anyone else presses you for. You know your limitations, so take care of your business and walk forward in communion with God. As we go forward through this world we need to be a light, as told, and that means to point souls to the Savior. Suggest to your mom to put the Lord Jesus first in her life, and direct her to the Gospel by John for peace and blessings.

I will pray for you in this and your studies.

Thank you, but that's where I get mixed up. I thought my witness to God would be to continue giving her money and what nonbeliever could say they would do that? I thought it would be a good example. And I thought my faith was weak because Jesus said not to give thought to tomorrow with food or money, so I just think I am weak when it comes to trusting Him for my own needs too.

I always point her to Jesus when I talk to her but she says that He uses people in times of need to help others in their situation (talking about herself), so she even finds a way to deflect that into relating it to herself. I shall still continue because I know God can break through all these things.

Your situation sounds like what happend with the Gibeonites in the bible.

Ask God before you make any decisions regarding money.
You cant just give to people who say they love you but dont actually show it. Anybody can say those words.

Thank you, still in continual asking. And that is true, anyone can say these words but love comes in action.

Have you talked with your dad about any of this? Have you ever really sat down and talked to your dad about your mother? Your mother sounds like she has mental illness. I think you should talk with your dad. In the meantime, I don't think you should be giving her any more money because you don't know what she's doing with the money you give her and her needs seem to be greater than monetary. If she is in need of resources, she needs to go to her local Social Services. She also needs to respect your life and it doesn't seem like she's doing that.

You can't save your mother. The most you can do is give her a list of resources and let her choose. You have to tell her to stop asking you for money. You may also need to figure out why you're really doing what your doing for your mother. What is driving you? Is it love or is it guilt? The best thing you can probably do for your mother is to pray for her.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Your situation is not an easy one. May the Lord bless you with His wisdom and peace and bring His healing deliverance to your situation.

Thank you and blessings to you for your input. Yes I have talked about my dad about this twice, once over the phone and the second time more at length in person. Both times he told me to walk away from this. He has long since remarried and has another set of children so he says he has moved on and can't help my mom. He even said how he went through such torture and heartache to win custody of my sister and I from my mom when we were little, especially when we were in danger of foster care when under her care after the divorce. He said how her character wasn't good and that she gave him physical damage at one point in their marriage. So much so that he went to her dad with her and showed the pictures and injuries and said he was done, and her dad agreed. Just a bit of history here.

Well, because she refused to look I took time out of my schedule to look up places for her to go to and seek help in the area where she stays and she told me to stop because she doesn't want their help and that she already tried what I was doing. I don't know about that because I never told her of the places that I found for her to try but it seems like she doesn't want to try or she did try and is tired. She says though she is waiting on her documents to process so she can get her money that's locked up and get an apartment and go back to school.

I tell her I can't help as often but she says I made a promise to her (which I did) to help until she is out of this situation, but I never told her how many times I could or how often I could. She counts this as me breaking my word so she keeps using that to say I am not being a Christian so I have to keep helping.

Honestly I did look at it and I think it is a mixture of both, and a little bit of pride to be honest. I thought I could save her because no one else was trying, but I see no one else is trying because they are tired and got burned by her. I did it because I saw the goodness she once had and thought I could bring it back by sticking it out with her and I loved what she was before (she wasn't always like this, at least to this extent), and I did it out of guilt because I am her biological son and though we are far apart I thought it was my duty to care for her in any way I could.

I have been praying on this more serious than anything else in my life, though maybe it's because I am not righteous enough. I tend to be lazy sometimes, but I am trying to change that. Thank you for this advice though, I really appreciate it.

sorry to hear this

may the faithful God bless you and your family greatly

Amen, and the same to yours.

 

[com7fy8]

I am trying to listen to what God would have me do but honestly it's hard because I haven't been hearing anything.

Simply being quiet with God is good. Ones fear quiet; because as they become quiet, they get abused and violated by fears and worries and boredom and loneliness and depression and frustration and hurry and stress and memories of past hurts and unforgiveness and bitterness and lusts for pleasures and excitements . . . all Satan's design play to keep us from becoming quiet and sweetly sensitive in submission to God. So, we need God to fight the spiritual battle to bring us into quiet rest with Him, and so we are pleasing to Him >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

I thought my witness to God would be to continue giving her money and what nonbeliever could say they would do that?

That is a point And you have given your word, but however you meant it, I consider. So, now . . . even if you realize you made a hasty promise and find you are, even so, obligated to keep it, you can still be prayerful to discover what God wants you to do with this, and make His good use of whatever is the case.

she even finds a way to deflect that into relating it to herself.

So, we need to not get into a way of looking down on her and despising her, but we get judged first >

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

I would think not to trust that person too but because she happens to be my mother I thought that would trump anything else when it comes to that.

If you gave your word, this might "trump" a thing or two. How God understands is what matters, not how an ungodly person wants to counsel you. So, now we can do whatsoever God has us doing, how He blesses and deeply satisfies us in the guiding of His own peace > Colossians 3:15 > so, Mike , even if you did make a wrong and unwise and unprayed-out promise, now we can do whatever God pleases. There is plenty good we can do, with or without money!

By the way, there was that time when Jesus' mother and Jesus' brothers went to call for Jesus, right while Jesus was ministering, and she did not trump His attention, I think you can read for yourself, in Mark 3:31-35. He did not go right out to His mother, but at least He gave time and attention to saying what this scripture says He said.

So, how God guides our attention trumps however anyone and everything else would control our attention.

I tell her I can't help as often but she says I made a promise to her (which I did) to help until she is out of this situation

I would say that what you meant by your promise is what God could expect. And I consider that if a person makes a wrong promise, which it would be a sin to do, then God would not require us to do what Satan gets us to promise; I am not saying if this applies to you, though. In any case, you did not promise to give in to however she dictates, did you? So, do what God has you do.

And if you do not "know" how to submit to how God personally guides you, this is what you, most of all, need to deal with. This is so more valuable than money; and while we are in His personal guiding, we can simply flow with Him, whether He tells us what to do or not, I trust And enjoy the ride in how He does guide in His grace

Also, how well have you prayed about your career and how God wants you to invest money in education and/or whatever? Possibly, He is working in "mysterious ways" to slow you down from what He does not really want. Or > even if He intends to bring you into engineering, you need to grow and develop in the character you will need for being a Christian engineer, including learning how to deal and relate and negotiate with various people, like your mother and other people So, seek God's correction (Hebrews 12:4-11) of His love's perfection (1 John 4:17), so you are as mature as possible for study and a later career, with emphasis included on how to relate with different people, and how to make sure with God about making any commitments.

So, I do find it admirable and encouraging that you are willing to sacrifice your education money because you value keeping your word. This can be worth more than any amount of money. But you could have a "lesson", here, about how we need to make sure with God about what we do, what we promise . . . and how we vow or not.

I suppose you knew what you meant and intended, by whatever you promised. I would think that would "figure in" to this.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Skinnymike. Love is all or nothing. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. The second is like it: love your neighbour as yourself." In verse 40 we are told:"On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring, being kind and always friendly. God will see our loving efforts, and God will Bless us.
a Christian`s weapon is Love, with love we can overcome all enmity, and wrong behaviour. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. We should not ask ourselves: How Far Can We Love, we should always love, and care. God wants loving men and women, love will change everything into Joy and Peace and Well-Being.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," give up all selfish wishes and wants, and start be loving and caring.
Love God with heart, soul and mind, and love our neighbour as we would love to be loved. Love is all-embracing, and always victorious. Let love change our lives, and change us into the sons and daughters which God wants.
Let us always remember: " God will not be mocked, Man will always reap what he sows, women too.
( Galatians 6: 7-8 I say this with love, Skinnymike. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Dave-W]

SM - I understand the constraints of Engineering school. My degree is in Engineering.

Does your mom now (or has she in the past) attended a local church? If so - I would contact the pastor/elders/deacons there and try to arrange something with them.

You need to be focused on your schoolwork right now.