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How Faith Works

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Robert Emanuel, Jul 31, 2002.

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  1. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    336
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    Yea and Amen Brother! :pray:
     
  2. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    I am very happy for each of these people that belive they have and a miracle. In fact Im very excited for them that their experience probably caused them to server God even more. Even the bible tells us that if something is good it has came from God and that we are to give God the glory for all things in our life. I am by no means deaming these people liars. In fact most people are sure they experience this or that. But when you get right down to the niddy griddy you find out that it was not even close to being a bibical miracle like that in the 1st century. Surely you cant expect anyone to just beleive everything that they say just because they call it a miracle from God. There is abosolutly nothing wrong with wanting proof to back up these claims. None of those miracles on disk that were sent to me showed a visual miracle and they can not be confirmed. It funny how you never see the miracle happen it always after the fact. I WILL SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR. JUST SHOW ME 1 VISABLE MIRACLE LIKE A WITHERED HAND BECOMING WHOLE OR SEVERED BODY PART BEING PUT BACK ON SOMETHING VISIABLE AND I WILL NOT DENY IT AND WILL START PREACHING MIRACLES THAT SAME HOUR. If these miracles are happeing all the time then it should not be hard to catch something like this on tape. But has it ever been done? No it has not. A bibical miracle happend immediately and did not take days or weeks to happen. You can search high you can search low but you cannot and will not find a miracle healing in the NT that took longer than 1 hour. In fact the bible refers to it in that same hour which could mean 1min or 59min but not longer. Being born again has nothing to do with wheather or not there are still 1st century mircles and signs today. The bible is complete and is there for us study and to grow and does not require miracles or signs today to back it up or cause it to be understood.
     
  3. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    336
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    Why you will not see a miracle--UNBELIEF! The reason that some day you may, is God's Grace!
     
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Miracles are all around my friend. eg The sunrise. we might take it for granted today, attributing it to science, astronomy etc, but it was a miracle when God put it up there, and it still is. also, your heart, which keeps on pumping. no it aint medical science that put it there and keeps it pumping. It was a miracle when God made man's heart organ, and it still is, we just forgot about it. :)
     
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Miracles are all around my friend. eg The sunrise. we might take it for granted today, attributing it to science, astronomy etc, but it was a miracle when God put it up there, and it still is. also, your heart, which keeps on pumping. no it aint medical science that put it there and keeps it pumping. It was a miracle when God made man's heart organ, and it still is, we just forgot about it. :)
     
  6. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    All these are miracles that came from the begging its not a new miracle. The Sun is not being recreated everyday nor is the human race being recreated from the dust of the earth every day. We can look at the results of these miracles from the begining and know that there is a God. Elannm do you really belive that a person cant see a miracle for unbelief? I dare you to answer this question yes. Because I will show other wise by the word of God and its not a maybe its either yes or no.
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    cougan,
    in your heart of hearts, do you wish miracles still existed. eg do you wish God still heals supernaturally? :)
     
  8. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    336
    +0
    My Dear Cougan here are the Scriptures you desire:
    Hebrews 6:11 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
    Matthew 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
    57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
    58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
     
  9. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
     :clap: Ahh yes Andrew. I think it would be awesome if they were here today. I must of been such a wonderful experience to be miracelous filled with the HS. Seeing such wonders first hand and seeing mamed people being healed. Who would'nt wish such a thing. :D
     
  10. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Heb 6:11 has nothing to do with wheather or not you can see or experience healings. It means exactly what it says that you can not be pleasing to god with out faith. You must have faith that he is god and that he is a rewareder of those who seek him.

    You are going to have a difficult time explaining John 9. Here you have a blind man that was healed by Jesus but the man had no idea who Jesus was. So he was healed before he had faith. He had no idea he was the son of God until later after being questioned by the Pharisees how it was he came to see. How much faith did the dead guy have that was being carried out of the city that Jesus raised? Now it would be good for you to read this article.

     It should be clear that the miracles performed by Jesus were not dependent on the faith of the recipient.  For example, the "dumb man possessed with a devil" in Matt. 9:32-33 was healed by Jesus with no indication of faith on the part of the man who was healed.  The man with the "withered hand" in Matt. 12:10-14 was healed without evidence of his faith in Jesus.  There is a also a general statement in Matt. 14:14 and Matt. 19:1-2 regarding multitudes who were healed without any indication that the Lord required them to have faith before they could be healed. These examples (and there are others which could be cited) show clearly that the healing done by Jesus in His earthly ministry was not dependent on the recipient's faith.  The "lack of faith" on the part of the sick is simply something that modern-day deceivers attempt to hide behind because they cannot perform the miracles that they claim.  Such statements show the falsity of their teaching and the sham of their pretended miracles.

        Sometimes in miracles of healing Jesus referred to the faith of the one who was healed.  Note first the woman "which was diseased with an issue of blood" (Matt. 9:20).  On that occasion "Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole.  And the woman was made whole from that hour" (Matt. 9:22).  "Her faith had brought her to Jesus ....  Her faith was not the source of her healing, but it had brought her into touch with Jesus who had the power to heal."<6> McGarvey further observed the following on Jesus' remark about her faith:

        "The way in which her faith had made her whole is very apparent, and it illustrates the manner in which faith saves us from sin.  It caused her to force her way through the crowd until she could touch the garment of Him from whom the deliverance was to come.  Had she stopped short of this, her faith would not have made her whole.  In like manner faith saves the sinner, not by the mere fact that he believes, but by that which it leads him to do.  It brings him through the pangs of sorrow, and the deep resolve of repentance, to the public confession of Jesus and baptism into His name, and thus, by bringing him in the appointed way to Jesus who saves, it saves him."<7>

        Again, the two blind men were healed by Jesus when "...touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you" (Matt. 9:29). Their faith was active and had caused them to go to the house where Jesus was, to recognize Him as the Messiah, the "Son of David," and to confess Him as "Lord" (Matt. 9:27-28).  Though these men had not seen the miracles that Jesus had done, they believed in Him and believed that He was able to heal them.  Jesus no doubt called attention to the faith of these men in order that those observing the miracle would also come to believe.  One clear purpose of all the miracles that Jesus performed was to cause belief in those who saw them.  John wrote of this purpose, "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (John 20:30-31).

        "And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief" (Matt. 13:58).  Mark's parallel record of this occasion points out that Jesus did lay hands on "a few sick folk, and healed them" (Mark 6:5).  "The unbelief of the people limited the mighty works which Jesus otherwise would have done."<8>  How sad for them.  Only a few were healed when many could have been had it not been for their unbelief.  Their hearts were so hardened against Jesus that even seeing the miracles that Jesus could have done before them would not have persuaded them that He was the Messiah. "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God" (Heb. 3:12).  Unbelief always results in loss.

     
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    quote:"Ahh yes Andrew. I think it would be awesome if they were here today. I must of been such a wonderful experience to be miracelous filled with the HS. Seeing such wonders first hand and seeing mamed people being healed. Who would'nt wish such a thing."

    Cougan,

    And I have absolutely no doubt you mean what you say above. But do you know what...that's your spirit telling you the truth -- that God still heals and performs miracles today. Your heart cries out for it, ie the Holy Spirit in you is telling you that's what it ought to be like today.

    lemme give you another example which my pastor used. a man is in a wheelchair. he somehow believes God put him there and that he is learning an important 'lesson' from God and so God does not want to heal him. He believes scripture teaches this too and has heard much preaching that supports what he believes.

    But in his heart [spirit] he longs to walk again. He cries silently when he sees other people running and jumping. So he still sees the therapist, and reads medical journals to see if there are any breakthroughs -- becos in his heart he still wants to get well, while on the outside, he may say otherwise.

    My Point: his heart is actually his spirit crying out the truth that he ought to be healed, and that God wants him well. Got put that truth in his heart in his spirit. That's the truth, it lies in there! So, cougan in your heart lies God's truth concerning this topic we're discussing. And its up to you which truth you want to follow. Follow your heart.

    :)
     
  12. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    336
    +0
    My dear Cougan you are walking in unbelief.
     
  13. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    336
    +0
    Coughen here are some more examples, I recieve today from a missionary:Dear friends and prayer warriors

    God is doing wonderful things in India.

    Just yesterday I got a letter from a teen in Visak I
    prayed for and he is having wonderful experiences with
    Jesus, getting inspiration for songs, and hearing from
    the Lord and the Lord is teaching him and directing his
    path, and has told him HE will give him 10 million
    souls ! He told him to fast 10 days and HE would give
    him more dreams and speak more so he didâ?¦..His letter is
    at the end of this update. Pray for Jeremiah !
    Jeremiahâ??s auntie and uncle run the orphanage in Visak
    with 150 children , many of whom are handicapped with
    polio or birth defectsâ?¦and God came so powerfully on the
    children that were saved thereâ?¦.they went down in the
    spirit and were being empowered in intercession in a
    mighty way.

    I also got a letter from Bangalore, and the village
    where we did an impromptu outreach,is now requesting
    weekly prayer meetings, as many got healed and
    experienced the touch of Jesus . So they have
    established Wednesday meetings. Bettyâ??s mother was
    healed of her eye problem also and can now see clearly.
    And the little boy in that village who was healed of a
    deaf and dumb spiritâ?¦is speaking and his mother has come
    to the Lord, and is attending church servicesâ?¦so the
    church has grown.

    The meetings in Indore have been wonderful and God
    ministers so powerfully His presence with Ashish leading
    worship. He is a revivalist and moves in miracles
    himself, so Godâ??s presence has been SO WONDERFUL in the
    meetings and many have been healed and touched
    powerfully for Christâ?¦

    One little girl (11yrs) Chinchalâ?¦who was accidentally
    dropped by her mom as an infant, is retarded and had
    bruxism, dumb spirit, and dark countenance. Mother was
    Hindu, but now has come to the Lordâ?¦now this girl is
    smiling, dancing in worshipâ?¦her countenance is totally
    changed and she is able now to move her tongue out of
    the mouth which she could not beforeâ?¦.at every meeting
    they are coming, and bringing more of their friends for
    prayer. Her auntie who came out of Hinduism, receives
    visions of Jesus, and has been so greatly touched by the
    Spirit in meetings, the other night in the Anglican
    church she was touched greatly in her emotions, her
    husband abandoned her and her two children so she is
    aloneâ?¦and she was crying and getting some love of the
    Lord.

    Today 8-9 people showed up at the house for prayer, but
    I was up late last night till 2 am, so up late in the
    morningâ?¦.also being harassed, with the enemy trying to
    bring the asthma and allergies back on meâ?¦at night
    especiallyâ?¦so have to pray and fight thenâ?¦last night I
    was wheezing so bad I used the inhaler onceâ?¦just to
    clear my lungs.
    But I need more prayer for this fight. Also the loose
    stools returned after stopping antibiotics againâ?¦so
    started back on themâ?¦please pray for that too !

    One of the people brought today was a woman who had a
    heart conditionâ?¦holes in the walls of her heartâ?¦.as I
    began to pray I saw the Lord sewing up the holes and
    then a picture of the tensile strength of the muscle
    walls being reinforced by the Lordâ?¦.and while praying
    for her she saw Jesus !

    The lady who brought her has been healed when we prayed
    for her stomach problemsâ?¦
    She had had cancer surgery and doctors told her there
    were still cancer cells in the bloodâ?¦but you should have
    seen her face todayâ?¦it was glowing and all she wants is
    more of Him so she can serve the LORD !

    Another family who were brought by Chinchalâ??s great
    auntie came who had a daughter with weakness in all her
    muscles, like someone with cerebellar damage. Some
    joints stiff and yet muscles weak and limpâ?¦Apparently
    she had a seizure the second day of life and has been
    this way since. I prayed for her and then showed the
    parents how to do active range of motion exercises with
    her to strengthen her muscles. Then I prayed for the
    father who has problems with anxiety and worry, and is
    educated , but hasnâ??t been able to get a good job !
    They said they believe in Jesus, but have been
    practicing Hindus, so they said they will come back
    tonight for service to get more prayer.

    God touched a young man who has been healed of a dumb
    spirit and can now speakâ?¦he wanted healing for his
    vision so he doesnâ??t have to wear glasses as the other
    kids have mocked him due to his former speech
    problemâ?¦.and God healed him todayâ?¦.he then read a
    songbook with small print without any strain.

    Another youth came and is Hinduâ?¦and after I said that
    there is no peace without Jesus, because he said he is
    frustrated with lifeâ?¦.He said â?? all gods are
    oneâ??â?¦.something he has learned through his parents of
    courseâ?¦.I said if that is true, then you wouldnâ??t need
    prayer from me, the other gods who are supposedly ONEâ?¦
    would have answered you !
    Then I prayed for his vision and for God to reveal
    Himselfâ?¦.and he fell back under the power of the
    spiritâ?¦.but had a spirit of divination on himâ?¦as he saw
    me in a vision on a chairâ?¦.usually they will see JESUS.
    There is a lot of elder worship hereâ?¦.so I encouraged
    him to returnâ?¦..He sat there while I prayed for the lady
    who did see Jesus and got healed of her heart problem
    thoughâ?¦.so it made an impression.

    We have a meeting tonight here, and then Sunday
    morning. One thing you need a lot of in India is
    PATIENCE. You cannot be in a hurry. Nothing goes at
    the speed things do in the U.S.

    I will be leaving to Russia, God willing â?¦.taking train
    to Delhi on 16th. 15th of the month is their
    Independence Day and terrorists have threatened to cause
    explosions in Delhi so it isnâ??t a safe time to go
    there. So will leave for there on 16thâ?¦itâ??s a 12 hour
    train rideâ?¦then will pick up visa at Russian embassy on
    17th and leave that night for
    Moscowâ?¦actually early am on 18thâ?¦..then will fly to
    Khabarovsk in FAR EAST on the 21st of Augustâ?¦..will be
    there till 27th or 28th, then take train to Ussurijsk
    and fly home to U.S. on Sept. 3rdâ?¦.arriving Sept.3rdâ?¦
    California time. Please pray God will move powerfully
    in Russiaâ?¦and for safety there also and flight
    arrangements.

    Love and hugs to you allâ?¦..missing homeâ?¦

    Priscilla
     
  14. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Thats funny Andrew. :) I also wish that I could fly like I do in my dreams sometimes. Does that mean that I should climb up on my roof and jump in the air and expect to fly?
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Flying? Well you will when you get your new glorified body.

    But there's a difference between death wishes and the will of the Spirit. :)
     
  16. Godslilgurlalways

    Godslilgurlalways I am a Child of the King:) Supporter

    +587
    Pentecostal
    Single
    Amen:)

    Bump:)
     
  17. ROGER459

    ROGER459 Member

    525
    +23
    Christian
    DOES, this testimony of Supposed Healing = correspond with THAT, as stated in the Scripures? ? ?

    (Acts 3:6-to-9)
    Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
    (Act 3:7) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
    (Act 3:8) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
    (Act 3:9) And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

    JESUS GAVE US WARNING, about such things! About those THAT WOULD REQUIRE A SIGN!


    (Matthew 12:39-40)
    But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    (Mat 12:40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    MOST, want to believe in the Supernatural Healing of someon's testimony, AND YET, there is AN UNDERLYING Resentment TOWARD THE AFRICAN AMERICAN ASSAILANT!

    Healing was spoken about, and YET THERE IS NO TESTIMONY = ABOUT FORGIVNESS! There is NO TESTIMONY ABOUT SALVATION!

    (Matthew 7:21-22-23) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    (Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    (Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    DIDN'T ANYONE Notice the person that KNEW THIS PERSON, from another SITE?

    DOES he go from site to site, and Post His STORY?

    NEVER ONCE, in the testimony did I hear anything about = Forgivness of Sins, and Salvation, and What God has showed him from the WORD? ? ?

    I DO NOT WANT TO CALL ANYONE AN LIAR! Yet there appear to be Too Many Inconsistencies, and too much missing? ? ?

    (Proverbs 14:15) The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

    DID YOU EVER watch Christian Television? Those SUPPOSED healing Services are not Real! They want you to send in your MONEY!

    Thanks, Roger459




     
  18. sk8Joyful

    sk8Joyful Well-Known Member

    +2,543
    Non-Denom
    Married
    AMEN, Brother.
    Try telling this to the folks in the CF-Ethics & Morality forum here, under the current topic of "Euthanasia". Believe it, or not - we have 'Christians' here, clamoring for the "Right-to-die".

    Whatever happened, to the FAITH that Jesus invited us to exersize, in HIS *word*.

    Keep up! spreading :thumbsup: Jesus' GOOD*NEWS, Brother!

    Annie :wave:
     
  19. Krysstian

    Krysstian Veteran

    +54
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Rob, Praise God for your healing! Hes amazing as always and may many more miracles come. Don't let the naysayers still your joy or your faith.
     
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