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How faith groups feel after Biden’s first 100 days

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by Michie, May 8, 2021.

  1. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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    Religious groups remain divided over the president’s approach to immigration, LGBTQ rights and other issues.


    At his inauguration, President Joe Biden promised to be a unifying leader. But, 100 days and several faith-related policy moves later, religious groups remain divided over whether he has their best interests in mind.

    More liberal denominations have applauded many of Biden’s actions, including efforts to reduce anti-LGBTQ discrimination and boost abortion rights. But these same decisions angered conservative people of faith, including leaders from Biden’s own church.


    “The unalienable dignity of women and their unborn children deserves so much more,” said one Catholic archbishop after the Biden administration announced it would increase access to a chemical abortion pill.

    He and other Catholic leaders are so angry with the president’s approach to abortion rights that they’ll vote this summer on whether Biden should still take communion, according to The Associated Press.

    When faith groups from across the political spectrum have united, it’s usually been to push back against something Biden has done. For example, religious leaders of all stripes cried out when the administration tried to keep a Trump-era plan for refugee admissions in place.

    “We’re in a global refugee crisis,” said Mark Hetfield, president and CEO of HIAS, a Jewish refugee resettlement organization, to Religion News Service last month. “This is a time to demonstrate real leadership.”

    Overall, around half of Catholics (58%) and Protestants (47%) approve of the job Biden has done so far, according to Gallup. By comparison, 71% of religiously unaffiliated Americans are pleased with the president after 100 days.

    Here’s a list of Biden’s key faith-related actions from the past three months, as well as notable responses from religious leaders.

    Continued below.
    What these 8 policy moves tell us about Biden’s relationship with religious leaders
     
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  2. honestal

    honestal New Member Supporter

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    President Biben is either extremely ignorant, extremely naive, or extremely dishonest if he's promising to unify the pro-life community and the pro-abortion community.
     
  3. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    The economic stimulus with a focus on those who need it.
    Infrastructure package
    Paris Climate Accord.
    200 million vaccine doses.
    Voting Rights HR1
    George Floyd civil Rights act
    Experienced, qualified Cabinet members.
    Discusses issues with both parties regularly.
    Exudes kindness, and compassion. Respects the media.
    Proposes path to citizenship for dreamers and guest worker visas.
    No name calling. No spite.
    Engenders trust.
    Low drama successor to no drama Obama. Thank God.
    I feel like the writers of the psalms expressing gratitude for deliverance from disaster. Praise God.

    That is a short list of why Christians approve of Biden. Most didn't make the list you published.

    Silly me. I think of the second great commandment, corporal works of mercy, stewardship of the earth, preferential option for the poor.

    No wonder why his approval is so high.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  4. DerSchweik

    DerSchweik Spend time in His Word - every day

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    You know that little bag you find in the back of the seat in front of you on an airplane?

    Mine's full.
     
  5. Guinan

    Guinan Well-Known Member

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    I'm honestly relieved Biden won the election. That being said, I don't expect him or any other national leader to be a representative of my Christian faith. I don't look towards Biden to publicly endorse my faith because I don't want a president or other national leaders pandering to Christians for their vote and political loyalty. I don't believe any specific religion should be promoted by the government and that includes Christianity. I don't believe Christians or other groups of religious people should be given precedential treatment by the government either. We live in a free nation where religious freedom is a deeply valued and cherished freedom. In my opinion, the President of the United States should never publicly endorse one specific religion over all the other diverse religions practiced in America.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  6. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion - we're all pro-choice, we just differ over who should make that choice and what it should be.

    IMO, the worst thing that Christians have done to the abortion debate, is to turn it into a religious issue, it isn't a religious issue.

    The best thing Christians can do to prevent abortions from happening is to try and understand all the reasons that lead people to seeking them in the first place, and then seeking to address those fundamental issues. Anything less could be described as ignorant, naive or dishonest.
     
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  7. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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  8. DerSchweik

    DerSchweik Spend time in His Word - every day

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    Actually, in the context of abortion, that is the common understanding of what pro-choice means.

    :scratch: So, in YOUR opinion, anything LESS than... your opinion is ignorant, naive or dishonest?

    In point of fact, the reasons why women get abortions isn't some arcane secret known only to a very special few who've, I don't know, made themselves "honest" and "un-ignorant" of the subject - it's a topic where the research has been quite in depth. The studies are many and the results very consistent with little margin of error (at most a couple of %):
    • 1.14% are done to save the life or physical health of the mother.
    • 1.28% to preserve the mental health of the mother.
    • 0.39% in cases of rape or incest.
    • 0.69% for fetal birth defects, or eugenics.
    That's 3.5% - considered by this article as the "hard cases." The remaining 96.5% are for "social and economic" reasons. The reader is free to imagine what that means, but that isn't that arcane a secret either.
     
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  9. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    I understand the 'common understanding' of 'pro-choice' just fine and actually it still doesn't mean 'pro-abortion'. Unless of course you're referring to the 'common misunderstanding', which I'll give you.

    That's not actually what I said is it? - but if you want to strawman me, go for your life.

    Just keep beating that strawman.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  10. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    Some of the "choices" pro-choicers make are those that help mothers and children. Child care, preschool, health care, expanded child tax credits, education, maternal and family leave.

    Many and perhaps most pro-lifers don't support any of those legislative "choices" and actively support legislators who oppose every single one of them. Maybe if they did there would be more lives saved.

    How many of you support the parts of the infrastructure bill that will eliminate ALL child poverty through 2025 (the years that the expanded credit is covered in the bill)? How many of you support preschool for children who, due to poverty, ESL, or disability needs, may struggle the rest of their lives without it? How many of you support a $15 an hour minimum wage?

    Pro-choicers save lives every day by making the right choices in all of those decisions.
     
  11. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    So the reader is reliant on imagination for 96.5%? In what way is this imagination not ignorance?
     
  12. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    Apogee, usually the other 96.5% are termed abortions of "convenience."

    The dictionary definition of convenience is: the state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty.

    LOL! I have raised three children, and there is not a child on God's green earth that can be raised with "little effort or difficulty."

    Especially if you add things like poverty, homelessness, addiction, underage, being in abusive relationships...scores of "inconveniences..." to the equation.

    Made exponentially more "inconvenient" by lack of child care, lack of health care, lack of family leave, insufficient income, substandard housing, etc.

    But the good news is that if our country had an attitude adjustment, we could erase many of these "inconveniences" so that children could be raised with the average amount of effort and difficulty.
     
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  13. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    Tell me about it I have 3 of my own. :)
     
  14. DerSchweik

    DerSchweik Spend time in His Word - every day

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    LOL - well... I disagree, so.. there it is.
    Actually, it's PRECISELY what you wrote.

    Now, maybe that's not what you MEANT to write - which is why I gave you an out by framing my comment as a question, but you didn't take the out so don't try to tell me that wasn't what you wrote, for... write it you most certainly did.
    I quote: "The best thing Christians can do... is to try and understand all the reasons that lead people to seeking them in the first place..." Now, I don't know but that some might think that just a tad high brow and condescending, assuming Christians don't understand why women seek abortions. But the fact is, the data isn't that difficult to obtain (took me about 10 seconds to find scores of sites).

    But, "strawman?" :scratch: C'mon.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  15. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    I'm wrong?...because what?...because you say I'm wrong?...really?

    This is just disingenuous...

    So what you said is (granted in the form of a question?)
    And my answer to that question is simply, and you can quote me, no I did not say that 'anything less than my opinion is ignorant, naive or dishonest' because that would be foolish and arrogant and I am neither.

    yup, literally textbook
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  16. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    It is nice to see, that you appear to have taken my criticism on board and edited the original post, to make it seem slightly more reasonable.

    How is this high brow, or condescending? I am a Christian, I certainly don't understand all the reasons that lead people to seek abortions, do you?

    You've said the data isn't difficult to obtain, that you found scores of sites, and yet the one that you ended up supplying was 3.5% reasons and 96.5% Gallic shrug
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  17. DerSchweik

    DerSchweik Spend time in His Word - every day

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    Meh, after some time here, one develops a certain sense of... well, let's just say little hairs of were beginning to raise on the back of my neck.
    I didn't say it was high brow or condescending; I said some might think it [a tad] so.
    The perfectly sterile answer is, no one does.

    But, c'mon now - you opined "The best thing Christians can do... is to try to understand all the reasons that lead people to seeking [abortions] in the first place." What were you saying? To some, it might seem an implicit assertion that we somehow don't know enough about [all the] women's reasons behind their decision to abort, therefore we shouldn't hold any other opinion than that they ought to be able to abort? Or was there some other reason for asking the question?

    No, I don't know "all the reasons" women choose to abort. But, apart from some whose emotions are so enlivened by the mere threat of anything that even hints at "pro life" (not thinking of you, specifically here), we can know what the statistics say - what those women who have chosen to abort have been asked and have told those who queried them said. Those responses, while all somewhat unique are also able to be categorized under general TYPES of reasons. We can readily know those types of reasons. E.g. I don't know every kind of chair that exists, but I do know a chair when I see one.

    Moreover, I do have some personal experience with the subject - BEFORE I became a Christian, and to be honest, it was one of the key reasons that led me to becoming a Christian. So while I don't claim absolute knowledge, I'm not entirely naive on the subject either.
    Apogee, I don't care what site you, or anyone else goes to - google it, find your own (though do find one with the DATA vs. unsupported, subjective opinion; they exist too). Some sites say that 3.5% is more like 7%. Ok, instead of 96.5%, it's 93%. Big whoop. 93% vs. 96.5%. The former is more indicative of the US and the latter of several different countries but, again, big whoop.
     
  18. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

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    No kidding, I've been here longer than you.

    I'm not all that interested in addressing the objections that imaginary people might have

    Yes, because if you don't understand the reasons, how can you hope to reduce them?

    Legislation isn't going to cut it.

    "social and economic" reasons, is not a reason it is the place holder for a reason, it is such a broad phrase as to practically encompass whatever you want it to.

    Why did world war 2 start? - oh well it was basically down to "social and economic" reasons
    Why do we have school systems? - oh well essentially "social and economic" reasons
    Why did Slavery become such a widespread practice? - well fundamentally it came down to "social and economic" reasons
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  19. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    It's a matter of degree. There can be urgent and compelling social and economic reasons. There can be relatively trivial social and economic reasons. The problem is when that term is used dismissively and contemptuously.

    How do we know if we're taking those social and economic problems seriously enough (recognizing that a small percentage may actually have simple solutions)?

    The only thing that makes sense to me is taking those social and economic problems seriously as long as they are serious. In most cases those social and economic problems will exist for many years after the baby has been delivered.

    And so if we are really pro-life we cannot look at the potential abortion as the problem and addressing the social and economic difficulties a 9 month means to an end. We have to look at the social and economic difficulties as the real problem and preventing the abortion as our society's lifelong commitment to an additional human being.
     
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