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Featured How does the Beast Convince the World he is God /Jesus

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Just The Facts, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but since the adversaries are unique, the patterns are also unique/different.

    We can marginalize it to an issue of spiritual ego and pride, because that is the identity unique to a specific adversary that began the rebellion. Every adversary does not want to raise themselves above the throne of the Most High God. Not every adversary sent a serpent to tempt man. Unique enemies did unique things; calling them all satans marginalizes the entire spiritual war into a muck of order/disorder principles.

    It is much deeper than that.
     
  2. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Yet every one did it for purposes of self, not out of selflessness. Even Peter got accused of being an adversary because he wanted an outcome different than the one desired by God.
     
  3. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Of course; anyone who doesn't do the will of the Most High God is an adversary. That is why there were many antichrists then, and why there will be many up until the point the Redeemer redeems us all.

    That says nothing about their motives, classification, pattern of behavior, etc.

    And, as said, even if there is spiritual ego factored in, since each of those entities is a unique entity, they will all have unique paths they would idealize - even if it meets an overall goal of some collective group.

    Two people can agree that murder is wrong, but one may be completely non-violent, while the other may be completely fine with violence in any circumstance - just not murder. Those two people, despite where they agree, follow two different paths. If anyone should choose to worship either of those two people, a basic principle of the worship would likely revolve around "murder is wrong," but depending on who is followed, the disciples will behave according to who they revere most.
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Is the purpose to follow(?) or to ensure the spirit of self is banished from ourselves as the default setting. Realistically there are about 7 billion adversaries out there unaware the Kingdom is not of the ways of this world and that it matters to our salvation if we chose not to love all neighbours as self
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Someone isn't a king unless they have a kingdom so it is speaking of kingdoms, and ones that had multiple kings ruling over them before the entire kingdom fell.

    Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    Barnes:

    The word “kings” - βασιλεῖς basileis - may be understood, so far as the meaning of the word is concerned:
    (a) literally, as denoting a king, or one who exercises royal authority;
    (b) in a more general sense, as denoting one of distinguished honor - a viceroy, prince, leader, chief, Mat_2:1, Mat_2:3,Mat_2:9; Luk_1:5; Act_12:1;
    (c) in a still larger sense, as denoting a dynasty, a form of government, a mode of administration, as what, in fact, “rules.”
    See the notes on Dan_7:24, where the word “king” undoubtedly denotes a “dynasty,” or “form of rule.”
     
  6. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Ok.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No it is not speaking of kingdoms. It says kings in the text.

    The 7 kings are kings of one kingdom.
     
  8. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    That's all wrong. Even Daniel described 4 beasts which were kingdoms, and the 4th one is the same as the 7th John spoke of which is the Rev 13:1 beast. Also, Daniel said the 4th beast was not like the previous ones so that eliminates the theory there there is one kingdom with different kings.
     
  9. Pethesedzao

    Pethesedzao Well-Known Member

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    The nuclear destruction of America is foretold in Revelation
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    THERE IS NO SEVEN KINGDOMS IN EITHER REVELATION NOR IN DANIEL 7.

    Daniel 7:17 kings, four
    Daniel 7:23-24 kingdoms, four
    Revelation 17:10-11 kings, eight

    The fourth beast in Daniel 7 has metal parts to it, which was different than the other three beasts. That's how it was different in the vision. Daniel 7:7 and Daniel 7:19. iron teeth, brass claws.

    In Daniel 7:17 (Kings), Daniel 7:23-24 (kingdoms), the text itself indicates that those FOUR beasts represent both kingdoms and kings.

    It does not do the same in Revelation 17:10, just kings. And in Revelation 17:10, it is SEVEN kings.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    In the text of Daniel 7:17, it says the four beasts are four kings. Which are:

    Babylonian kingdom - Nebuchadnezzer
    Medes-Persians - Cyrus
    Greeks - Alexander
    Roman Empire - the little horn person of the end times., who later becomes the beast.

    In Revelation 17:10-11
    king 7 - the little horn
    king 8 - the beast

    It is the same person, but in different roles. Which is what I have been explaining here at this site over, and over, and over. Same person, in different roles, on his path to his destruction. His path follows the sequence of the books of the bible as more, and more information was revealed about him. The different roles are...

    little horn - Daniel 7
    prince who shall come - Daniel 9
    Antichrist - 1John2:18
    revealed man of sin - 2Thessalonians2:4
    beast - Revelation 13, DESTROYED from being king when Jesus returns.

    ____________________________________________________________________

    23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    In Revelation 17:10, the little horn is king 7, coming up among ten kings of the fourth kingdom, of Daniel 7:23-24 above, the Roman Empire (end times).

    After he is mortally wounded by the sword, and comes back to life, Revelation 13:3, he becomes king 8, Revelation 17:11, the beast, and the ten kings rule with him, in the text of Revelation 17:12.

    As the beast, his kingdom in Revelation 13:1-2 is the Roman Empire (end times), the fourth kingdom which the ten kings will emerge from, Daniel 7:23-24. The ten kings of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire (end times is the EU), give their kingdom to him.

    Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

    _____________________________________________________________
    Simplified
    The person will be king of the Roman Empire (end times). Except for the time of about three years when he will become the King of Israel, coming in his own name, the Antichrist.

    King of the Roman Empire -king 7 (the little horn)
    King of Israel, coming in his own name - the Antichrist
    King of the Roman Empire - king 8 (the beast)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  11. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Again, that is wrong. There are 4 given in Daniel, and 7 in Rev which are the last 4 Daniel wrote about.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    THERE IS NO SEVEN KINGDOMS IN EITHER REVELATION NOR IN DANIEL 7.

    In Daniel 7, there are four kingdoms in the text.
    ____________________________________________________________________
    Simplified:

    The person will be king of the Roman Empire (end times). Except for the time of about three years when he will become the King of Israel, coming in his own name, the Antichrist.

    King of the Roman Empire -king 7 (the little horn)
    King of Israel, coming in his own name - the Antichrist
    King of the Roman Empire - king 8 (the beast)
     
  13. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    I have already proven that there are.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    What you have proven is that you are manipulating the text, departing from what it says in the text, into a scenario different from what the bible is about.

    The different roles of the arch villain of the end times in sequence are...

    little horn - Daniel 7 King of the Roman Empire end times

    prince who shall come - Daniel 9 (transition role)

    Antichrist - 1John2:18, King of Israel coming in his own name

    revealed man of sin - 2Thessalonians2:4 (transition role)

    beast - Revelation 13, King of the Roman Empire end times DESTROYED from being king when Jesus returns.

    The transition roles are of the person becoming the Antichrist....the King of Israel coming in his own name.... and no longer being the Antichrist.

    ____________________________________________________________

    simplified:

    King of the Roman Empire -king 7 (the little horn)
    King of Israel, coming in his own name - the Antichrist
    King of the Roman Empire - king 8 (the beast)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not quite Jesus. Presides over the full fledged final judgment.

    When Jesus judges, he judges some unto to Heaven, others unto Hell. He judges both the Righteous and the wicked. That's the second main event.

    The first resurrection is only of the Saints. And just not involve assorting it does not involve sheep and goats, wheat and Tares. It is not. The final judgment. Over which Jesus presides at the Great White throne arrival.
     
  16. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those words were written in about 65 AD. Nero was the sixth Caesar, the sixth emperor of Pagan, Rome. Just a couple more came after him before the entire dynasty of Julius Caesar Met its demise in the Jewish war.
     
  17. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hello Erik

    Revelation was not written in 65ad. I know all of the Preterist "proofs" which are not proofs at all just part of a effort to twist dates so that events that are clearly future in 95AD can be moved backward to 70AD.
     
  18. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Nerva, who succeeded Domitian, only reigned for 1 year, 4 months, and 9 days. Just sayin'.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  19. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Virtually all historians, ancient and modern, are of general agreement that St. John wrote the Apocalypse during the reign of Domitian, sometime in the early-mid 90's of the first century. I agree that the number of the beast refers to Nero; but John wasn't writing contemporaneously with Nero, Nero had been gone for several decades already. It is more likely that John refers to the Nero Redivivus legend. As we read in History by Eusebius,

    "Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us." - Eusebius, Church History, Book III.13

    Domitian was, as it were, a second Nero. Nero had, figuratively speaking, come back from the dead to wage war against the saints.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Revelation was written before the Book of John.
     
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