How does Orthodoxy view Protestant, Roman Catholic and Oriental Orthodox Martyrs ?

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I was thinking about this today and I just wanted to know how The Orthodox Church views those in Heterodoxy but die for their faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, for translating The Bible into English, for Preaching in Muslim lands, missionaries who were killed by cannibal tribes Etc ? Also, Oriental Orthodox Martyrs in the Middle East.


Are they given a Martyrs' crown ?

Can any of them be considered A Saint with a capital "S" with in Orthodoxy ?


List of Catholic martyrs of the English Reformation - Wikipedia

List of Protestant martyrs of the English Reformation - Wikipedia

Category:Oriental Orthodox saints - Wikipedia


 
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All4Christ

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~Anastasia~

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Some people do have a private devotion to such saints.
Some people have a private devotion to a pious grandmother or neighbor who reposed. I don't think there's anything disallowed by that ... ?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Some people have a private devotion to a pious grandmother or neighbor who reposed. I don't think there's anything disallowed by that ... ?

no, it's not. while the Church will never rubber stamp someone like Fr Maximilian Kolbe, it's not outside of Orthodoxy for him to be in someone's personal piety.
 
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archer75

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Some people have a private devotion to a pious grandmother or neighbor who reposed. I don't think there's anything disallowed by that ... ?
Not at all. What I meant was what Fr Matt said better in post 7.
 
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Not David

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Don't know if I am correct or not, but it seems like there have been men at the Church who had argue that heretics/schismatics cannot be martyrs:

  • Pope Pelagius II:

    Those who were not willing to be in agreement in the Church of God, cannot remain with God; although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be [for them] that crown of faith, but the punishment of faithlessness, not a glorious result, but the ruin of despair. Such a one can be slain; he cannot be crowned.

    Denz. 247 (emphasis added; bracketed words added).

  • Saint Cyprian of Carthage:[N]ot even the baptism of a public confession and blood can profit a heretic to salvation, because there is no salvation out of the Church. Letter LXXII, ¶21. He cannot be a martyr who is not in the Church. Treatise I, On the Unity of the Church, ¶14 (emphasis added).

  • Council of Laodicea: No Christian shall forsake the martyrs of Christ, and turn to false martyrs, that is, to those of the heretics, or those who formerly were heretics; for they are aliens from God. Let those, therefore, who go after them, be anathema. (Canon 34).



  • St. Augustine:

    f, under the pressure of any persecution [e.g., by pagans], they [viz., schismatics] give their bodies with us to be burned for the faith which they like us confess: yet because they do all these things apart from the Church, not forbearing one another in love, nor endeavoring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace, insomuch as they have not charity [since schism is a mortal sin against charity], they cannot attain to eternal salvation, even with all those good things which profit them not.

    On Baptism, against the Donatists, Bk.1, ch.9 (emphasis & bracketed words added).
 
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~Anastasia~

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I would suggest there is a difference between a person who knowingly and purposely was a heretic or schismatic himself ... and someone who is merely heterodox.

The former knows the truth and rejects it. The latter simply "knows" a wrong "truth" (to whatever degree ... they will be right about some things as well).

The Church Fathers probably had no case of heterodox to make that distinction?
 
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ArmyMatt

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they will never be martyrs in the sense that the Church will never add them to the calendar, but that doesn't mean private devotion doesn't or hasn't existed. even St Cyprian of Carthage called Tertullian "the Master."
 
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Not David

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they will never be martyrs in the sense that the Church will never add them to the calendar, but that doesn't mean private devotion doesn't or hasn't existed. even St Cyprian of Carthage called Tertullian "the Master."
Why does it sound those quotes talk about their salvation, Father Matt?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Why does it sound those quotes talk about their salvation, Father Matt?

because they were dealing with very specific issues within the Church, such as those who lapsed under persecution. they weren't talking about folks raised for centuries in another faith, not knowing any better.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Plus, Augustine himself had a bunch of Heretical Unorthodox ideas.


From : True Orthodox Polemics - Bishop Augustine of Hippo - His Life and His Heresies


"Let us now consider eight of the more pervasive teachings of Augustine which became the source of heresies, namely: (1) the Filioque, (2) original sin, (3) the redefining of baptism, (4) predestination and irresistible grace, (5) the disavowal of free-will, (6) confusion in understanding the differences between essence and hypostases and the energies of the Holy Trinity, (7) theophanies and created energies, and, (8) the validation of heretical baptism."


"Augustine was the author of the Filioque, that heresy which eventually cut off the West from the Orthodox Church. Even after the Second Ecumenical Synod, Augustine was emphatically teaching: “God the Father is He from Whom the Word is born and from Whom the Holy Spirit principally proceeds."



 
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ArmyMatt

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Plus, Augustine himself had a bunch of Heretical Unorthodox ideas.


From : True Orthodox Polemics - Bishop Augustine of Hippo - His Life and His Heresies


"Let us now consider eight of the more pervasive teachings of Augustine which became the source of heresies, namely: (1) the Filioque, (2) original sin, (3) the redefining of baptism, (4) predestination and irresistible grace, (5) the disavowal of free-will, (6) confusion in understanding the differences between essence and hypostases and the energies of the Holy Trinity, (7) theophanies and created energies, and, (8) the validation of heretical baptism."


"Augustine was the author of the Filioque, that heresy which eventually cut off the West from the Orthodox Church. Even after the Second Ecumenical Synod, Augustine was emphatically teaching: “God the Father is He from Whom the Word is born and from Whom the Holy Spirit principally proceeds."



this is a schismatic site. and it neglects to mention St Augustine is called a saint at an Ecumenical Council (I believe the 6th).
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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this is a schismatic site. and it neglects to mention St Augustine is called a saint at an Ecumenical Council (I believe the 6th).

Thanks for telling me that Father Matt.

What is the official view of Augustine's teachings in Eastern Orthodoxy ?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Thanks for telling me that Father Matt.

What is the official view of Augustine's teachings in Eastern Orthodoxy ?

some are spot on, some are way off, but he never put himself above the Church.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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some are spot on, some are way off, but he never put himself above the Church.

Thank you.

I wish there was a Non-Schismatic Orthodox resource that showed what was Orthodox and what was not Orthodox about Augustine's views.
 
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