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How does God feel about those who drink alcohol or smoke marijuana?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by angelgabriel, Jun 5, 2002.

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  1. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

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    I will pray for you Mike, so long as you pray for me. What you have learned from prosise keepers, the Lord has led me to see in the Scriptures. We are the key to generational sin, and the answer is the Word of God made True in Christ.

    It's important to remember though...the family killer is sin, not the abuse victim of that sin.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  2. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
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    Othniel,

    I will pray for you. I totally agree, it's not about blame, it's about understanding what is going on.

    That is what I have learned from PK conferences. Hearing men give testimony after testimony from powerful men brought to their knees, broken over sins carried through generations.

    To break generational issues men must first understand our role. Unless we stand and say "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" our house is just a building that hands the next generation our sins.

    Then we must get busy forgiving all that have set us on the path of self destruction. It's about out justification for our actions that comes from an unforgiving heart. Genetics make us male, God makes us men.

    We should never make choices based upon how "I" handle it, how "I" am changed by it. Look at the role God gave us as men and see things as they are for all in the house. "We can't serve two masters, you will love one and hate the other"

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

    Blessings
     
  3. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    New Wine

    Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster , and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

    Joel 1:10-12 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth. Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished. The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

    Isaiah 24:7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.

    Proverbs 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine .

    Nehemiah 10:37-39 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house. For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.

    Nehemiah 13:5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine , and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.

    If someone wants to drink wine thats up to them, but don't use the excuse that The Lord Jesus Christ drank wine to make you feel its ok for you to. New wine or the cup of the Lord is grape juice according to the Bible.
    Julie
     
  4. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
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    To Julie:

    All the references you gave about "new wine" were Old Testament.

    The Last Supper was the Jewish Seder meal, and Jewish tradition has always held that wine, fermented grape juice, is used for this celebration.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  5. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    The word wine comes from the root word meaning "vine." That is, wine originally came straight from the vine. (Now, it goes by the way of the vat!) Fermented wine is nothing new, Brother Noah had a problem with it in Genesis 9:21. What God intended for man's enjoyment (Ecclesiastes 9:7; 10:19; etc.) man has turned into his own destruction. But, what is new about that? The distinction is made in Numbers 6:3 where God shows that there is "...vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink ..." [emphasis mine.] Wine, in the Bible, is juice from the grape that is fresh from the vine. When necessary, God will say "new wine." As always, context will determine the correct meaning.

    When Jesus was conducting the last supper with his disciples, he says; "I will not drink henceforth of the fruit of the vine , until the day when I drink it new ." [emphasis mine.] He was referring to the juice in the cup (See Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18 ). Deuteronomy 32:14 also makes it clear that this juice is "...the pure blood of the grape."

    And, just so you would know, God makes it clear in Isaiah 65:8 that new wine is found in the cluster.
     
  6. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
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    To Julie:

    That is one interpretation.

    However, keep in mind that the Last Supper was in the Spring, long before the crops had ripened to be harvested. And there was no means to keep grape juice fresh in Palestine. The ONLY means for preserving grape juice was to let it ferment into wine, rather than let it spoil by becoming moldy.

    And again, the Jewish tradition for the Seder meal is to use wine. Jesus was a Jew.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  7. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    God makes a much sharp point in Proverbs 23:21 where He warns, "look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright." I can hear it now, "O come on , how can looking at wine be wrong?" Remember, I didn't say it! God said it, and I would reckon that God has more sense about the matter than the both of us put together and then add about three hundred thousand more of us with the same intelligence. (You still might have a hard time filling a thimble!) Remember how Lot got into trouble? Well, if you don't go to Genesis 13:10 and II Peter 2:8 and read. Do you know what got Eve into trouble? Go to Genesis 3 and read. She LOOKED then she "took." Do you know what got King David into trouble? Reading II Samuel 11:2 while make it very clear that it was a LOOK that took place first! Surely there are more biblical examples, but this should be sufficient enough.
    Daniel considered it a defilement to drink wine (Daniel 1:8).















    If someone wants to drink wine thats up to them, but don't use the excuse that The Lord Jesus Christ drank wine to make you feel its ok for you to. New wine or the cup of the Lord is grape juice according to the Bible.
     
  8. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
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    I think ANY use of weed is abuse. I have enough experience to know that. Even a little amount of weed will disort things and harm your body. As with wine a little NORMALLY won't do that. I've seen so many that are addicted to pot use the excuse well it's good for this and this and this and we need to make it legal blah blah blah (infact when I wa using I said the same things and it was the weed speaking not myself). Weed is wrong period. Even if our goverment made it legal to smoke I'll stand by it being wrong just because I seen how even a little effects ANYONE that uses it. If you smoke some weed and claim it didn't effect you it's because of one of three things.

    1. It was bunk weed (not real stuff).

    2. You are in denial.

    3. You were messed up but your short term memory was effected (very bad side effect of pot).

    Weed can only draw you farther from God and sure isn't going to give you "spiritual experiences".
     
  9. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Come now, Julie, surely you can appreciate the correct interpretation of Proverbs 23. It refers to the excess of food and drink that royalty often exercised. Let us look at some other verses from the same chapter.

    Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, or with gluttonous eaters of meat; for the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with rags. - Proverbs 23:20&21, NASB

    Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
    Who has contentions? Who has complaining?
    Who has wounds without cause?
    Who has redness of eyes?
    Those who linger long over wine, those who go to taste[for pleasure, not drink for sustenance] mixed wine. - Proverbs 23:29&30, NASB (bolding and clarification mine)

    These verses clearly state that excessive, flippant drinking is wrong, no deconstructionist interpretation required.
     
  10. MatthewDiscipleofGod

    MatthewDiscipleofGod Senior Veteran

    +261
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    I really didn't touch on drink my last post. Many people have alrady giving good scriptures on the wine drinking. To top if off though I never really seen anyone approach like this:

    If drink wine (yeah stuff that can get you drunk not grape juice) why so many warnings about getting drunk? Why not just say don't drink anything that could get you drunk instead of saying don't drink to the point of getting drunk? I know over drinking can tear families apart and people away from God but specially in the United States the view on this issue is really different then in many other countries. The abuse rate is very high and the problems from it are obvious so I think that really effects peoples thinking about this issue but again I think the bible is clear that drinking is fine, over drinking isn't.
     
  11. debs

    debs Member

    133
    +0
    What does God think about those who indulge in drugs and alcohol? Ummm......he loves them!
     
  12. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    We have all heard: "But I just drink for the social life." Or, "As long as you're not getting drunk it's all right." I suppose there are at least a dozen more reasons (or excuses) that men give for "wanting" to drink wine, beer, liquor, etc. The Scriptures tell us in Ephesians 5:18, that wine is excess ! Now I know that most do not read it that way but, what does that have to do with the truth?

    Then someone will say, "Didn't one verse say 'a little wine?'" Yes, it sure did! Don't you remember about reading in the context? (Short memory, huh?) There is a vast difference between good wine and bad wine. Bad wine becomes vinegar. Any herbalist will tell you of the value of "vinegar" for your infirmities. (That's the word used in I Timothy 5:23, if you haven't found it yet.) Vinegar is used to help with arthritis, athlete's foot, burns, dandruff, insect bites, sore throats and stomach problems (PH balance), etc.









    When Jesus was conducting the last supper with his disciples, he says; "I will not drink henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the day when I drink it new." He was referring to the juice in the cup (See Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18 ).
     
  13. UnderdogEnt

    UnderdogEnt Prayer Warrior

    79
    +0
    Julie,
    2 Samuel 11:2 is not referring to David drinking, it is talking about his lust for Bathsheba. Also, Daniel 1:8 is not just talking about all wine, it is talking about the food and wine which had been offered to idols. Nebuchadnezzar had been sacrifing food and wine to his idols and then giving it to the men of Israel in hope of converting them. Daniel simply did not want to be defiled by eating the food or drinking the wine of idols.
     
  14. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Underdog, you missed the point.

    ***************************************
    Why am I the only one to list Scripture?









    There is a vast difference between good wine and bad wine.
     
  15. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
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    There are two words for wine in Greek, ouionos and sucre. The word for vinegar is oxos used six times. Wine is wine and vinegar is vinegar.

    Grapes are harvested in Israel from June through September. Where did Jesus get fresh grape juice in March?

    When Jesus turned the water into wine at the wedding in Cana many people want to say that was really grape juice. But in the passage one of the guests tells the host that most people give their guests the bad wine afher theguests are well drunk. How much grape juice do you have to drink before you can't tell the difference between good and bad? How much grape juice does it take to make one well drunk?
     
  16. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Drink, drank, drunk, parts of speech.








    1 Corinthians 10:21
    Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils : ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
     
  17. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
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    EXCUSE ME JULIE??? :confused:
    I think you need to look at post #49 and refresh your memory. :scratch:
     
  18. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Yes, I see Joe, you're just a Scripture quoting machine. :D
     
  19. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Julie, I'm not exactly sure how this post is meant to attack me. :scratch:

    Are you saying that I'm too lazy to quote a larger volume of Scripture, or that I'm just too stupid to use the "KJV, the real Bible"??? :scratch:

    Either way, it's rather insulting.
     
  20. UnderdogEnt

    UnderdogEnt Prayer Warrior

    79
    +0
    Julie, most everyone has quoted Scripture in this debate. What point was I missing? That David saw Bathsheba and wanted her and then had her? Seeing a glass of wine does not make me want it. Also, I think that the true point behind Daniel's refusal of the wine was that he wouldn't eat or drink something that had been offered to idols.
     
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