How does Brexit fit in to Dispensationalist Eschatology?

[Francis Drake]

Don't forget the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation
the Holy Roman Empire of the Frankish nation
and the Holy Roman Empire of the Spanish nation
as well as the attempted Millenial kingdom under Hitler and the third Reich!

Heheh. Thanks, I was gonna add them all, but got too sleepy to concentrate.

 

[nolidad]

Those images were expressly to prove the Babylon roots of the EU.

The extent that any given nation serves Satan obviously varies in accordance with the faithfulness of its past and present leaders and its laws.
The spirit of antichrist is working hard to bring all nations completely under its rule, that's why in both the UK and USA we see so many rapid changes in laws that reverse the Godly heritage we once had.

Based on what the Bible describes Babylon at the end time- I would declare that the false prophet and the end times"super-church" are the spirit of Babylon the Mother of Harlots and all abominations on the earth.

Teh city of Babylon was rebuilt under Hussein and will become the capital of the antichirst until He takes over Jerusalem, enters the rebuilt temple and declares himself God.

 

[nolidad]

Those images were expressly to prove the Babylon roots of the EU.

The extent that any given nation serves Satan obviously varies in accordance with the faithfulness of its past and present leaders and its laws.
The spirit of antichrist is working hard to bring all nations completely under its rule, that's why in both the UK and USA we see so many rapid changes in laws that reverse the Godly heritage we once had.

I don't see a babylonian root to the EU. I do see a one worldism, secularistic root. It is strongly tied to teh Bilderbergs, Davos group, CFR (its Europe counterpart,the round tables). The EU is just a part of teh advance of Satans plan for this world he is temporarily god of! I also can see whatever is left of teh EU in th efuture being one of the ten horns or ten toes that split from the 1 world govt.

It was interesting that in the 80's the Club of Rome (the power behind the world powers) had published a magazine article diagramming the 1 world govt. with ten zones of economic governance ruled by ten "governors."

 

[Francis Drake]

I don't see a babylonian root to the EU.

I find that a little odd, given that the EU itself in all its regalia, makes major boasting about its links to Babylon?

I do see a one worldism, secularistic root. It is strongly tied to teh Bilderbergs,

The EU was founded on a Bilderberg decision.

Davos group, CFR (its Europe counterpart,the round tables). The EU is just a part of teh advance of Satans plan for this world he is temporarily god of! I also can see whatever is left of teh EU in th efuture being one of the ten horns or ten toes that split from the 1 world govt.

All very true.

It was interesting that in the 80's the Club of Rome (the power behind the world powers) had published a magazine article diagramming the 1 world govt. with ten zones of economic governance ruled by ten "governors."

The EU being the first of their ten kingdoms, one of the toes.
Just as most attempts at military empire building in Europe have been fuelled by the Catholic church, the EU Empire was and is a Catholic project, a political extension of that religion.
Whilst it is rarely mentioned in the Protestant UK media (or USA), the Catholic roots of the EU are taken for granted in the media of other member nations.

 

[nolidad]

I find that a little odd, given that the EU itself in all its regalia, makes major boasting about its links to Babylon?

The EU was founded on a Bilderberg decision.

All very true.

The EU being the first of their ten kingdoms, one of the toes.
Just as most attempts at military empire building in Europe have been fuelled by the Catholic church, the EU Empire was and is a Catholic project, a political extension of that religion.
Whilst it is rarely mentioned in the Protestant UK media (or USA), the Catholic roots of the EU are taken for granted in the media of other member nations.

I would love to see reputable links to the EU boasting of its links to Babylon. Most links to Babylon are based on the mystery religions that all sprang from the Babylonian system. Mystery Babylon, teh harlot is a religious system in revelation.

I find it very dubious that the Roman Church is behind the EU movement. They may support it and have help to cheer it on, but the Vatican has but a shell of the power it carried in the dark ages and early stages of the reformation. Leaders still pay homage to the pope and the Roman Church still gets lots of press- but it is pursuing a more religious agenda first and then a social agenda second.

Too many Christians see a Catholic boogey man behind every move towards Biblical prophecy being fulfilled. I am convinced that the Roman church will be the main part of the one world whorish church of the end times, but a pope, unless he gains far more political and military power on the world stage could only rise to the position of the false prophet.

The days of Catholicism moving nations and ordering rulers to move their armies has been over for a long time.

 

[Francis Drake]

I would love to see reputable links to the EU boasting of its links to Babylon. Most links to Babylon are based on the mystery religions that all sprang from the Babylonian system. Mystery Babylon, teh harlot is a religious system in revelation.

I already showed you all the posters, stamps, coinage, architecture that are based on Babylon. These are official themes that run through the EU, including the Tower of Babel Strasbourg Parliament building. What more do you want?

I find it very dubious that the Roman Church is behind the EU movement. They may support it and have help to cheer it on, but the Vatican has but a shell of the power it carried in the dark ages and early stages of the reformation.

You underestimate the power the Vatican has. The church has a massive membership in most nations and its power to influence the thinking of those people is huge.

Leaders still pay homage to the pope and the Roman Church still gets lots of press- but it is pursuing a more religious agenda first and then a social agenda second.

Catholicism is equal parts religious and social behaviour. In that way it strongly resembles Islam, a political governmental system as much as a faith.

Too many Christians see a Catholic boogey man behind every move towards Biblical prophecy being fulfilled. I am convinced that the Roman church will be the main part of the one world whorish church of the end times, but a pope, unless he gains far more political and military power on the world stage could only rise to the position of the false prophet.

That's hardly surprising. The legs in the image of Nebuchadnezzar continue without break all the way to the feet and toes. Historians claim the Roman Empire collapsed around AD 500. Escatologists claim it will resurrect at the end times. That leaves a 1500 year gap in the Roman Empire.
Any student should see that the RC church is a continuation of the Empire.

The days of Catholicism moving nations and ordering rulers to move their armies has been over for a long time.

I disagree completely, but am too tired to address it now. Bedtime in UK.

I am enjoying this conversation.

 

[nolidad]

I already showed you all the posters, stamps, coinage, architecture that are based on Babylon. These are official themes that run through the EU, including the Tower of Babel Strasbourg Parliament building. What more do you want?

The Babylonian govt. has not survived over the millenia, but the whorish relious psirit has. The EU is not very religious.

And how did Europe get all this historical info on babylon to copy it?

You underestimate the power the Vatican has. The church has a massive membership in most nations and its power to influence the thinking of those people is huge.

When I was a Catholic lad in the 60's I would agree with you! Now- no! The church has been rocked with scandal after scandal. Most Catholics are niminal in their religion. They have a severe shortage of priests and sisters and nuns. Every week dozens of parishes globally are shutting down. Yes the Pope makes his proclamations but his influenced has waned over the decades! Most of Europe and the US are nominally Catholic and oppossed to much of the positions of Rome. That is a church on the decline not maintaining some intense political power!

Catholicism is equal parts religious and social behaviour. In that way it strongly resembles Islam, a political governmental system as much as a faith.

Christianity shows its faith in social behavior as well! All religions do so.

That's hardly surprising. The legs in the image of Nebuchadnezzar continue without break all the way to the feet and toes. Historians claim the Roman Empire collapsed around AD 500. Escatologists claim it will resurrect at the end times. That leaves a 1500 year gap in the Roman Empire.
Any student should see that the RC church is a continuation of the Empire.

Most disproportional Eschatologists (the most famous is JD Pentecost in his work "Things to Come") agree. But deeper study and a more careful look at the vision of the statue, four beasts, Matt. 24, and REv. on teh beast, show a much different picture.

The two leg division started when Rome had 2 capitals, Rome and Constantinople. I have shown how that east west shift of power in Imperialism moved over the succeeding centuries. Remember the only thing that is different from all the rest of the beasts is that Rome started a brand new form of rule--Imperialism! That Imperialism has continued in the 2 leg form to this day!

I disagree completely, but am too tired to address it now. Bedtime in UK.

I am enjoying this conversation.

It should surprise you that in the heaviest Catholic areas: N. America, Europe, and S. America, catholics vote more against papal decrees in their national elections than they vote for them!

Once again, if Rome once again gets real political power where it can shape world events by its decrees, and it can command armies at its will (not even Spain, France and Italy would yield their armies to the Vatican as of now), and a Pope rises to global power so he can enforce the treaty with Israel that starts the 70th week of Daniel, then yes, a pope can be the antichrist. But given what is now- the best he can rise to is false prophet.

I was Catholic, became anti Catholic and have read many many books against Catholicism. My favorite is the two Babylons by Hislop. That clearly shows that so much of church ritual and tradition is deeply rooted in the ancient mystery religions from Babylon.

 

[Francis Drake]

The Babylonian govt. has not survived over the millenia, but the whorish relious psirit has. The EU is not very religious.

The Babylonian Govt has obviously survived in many forms.
As I have said previously, when Christ returns, he doesn't just destroy the toes of the great image, he destroys it all the way back to the head of gold.
Daniel is quite vivid in that particular description, but it proves that Babylon has remained active but hidden throughout the ages.

And how did Europe get all this historical info on babylon to copy it?

You will have to ask them that question, but to me it just proves that the spirit of Babylon is alive and well in the EU institutions

When I was a Catholic lad in the 60's I would agree with you! Now- no! The church has been rocked with scandal after scandal. Most Catholics are niminal in their religion. They have a severe shortage of priests and sisters and nuns. Every week dozens of parishes globally are shutting down. Yes the Pope makes his proclamations but his influenced has waned over the decades! Most of Europe and the US are nominally Catholic and oppossed to much of the positions of Rome. That is a church on the decline not maintaining some intense political power!

But it is still ruled by the spirit of Babylon, just like the political model of the EU.

Christianity shows its faith in social behavior as well! All religions do so.

Institutional Christianity certainly does, but virtually all churches have some spiritual heritage running back to the RC church.

Most disproportional Eschatologists (the most famous is JD Pentecost in his work "Things to Come") agree. But deeper study and a more careful look at the vision of the statue, four beasts, Matt. 24, and REv. on teh beast, show a much different picture.

Not read it.

The two leg division started when Rome had 2 capitals, Rome and Constantinople.

I disagree, although it's a common teaching.
The Constantinople split didn't occur till very late in Rome's existence, and that would require the 2 legs of the great image to be still joined together around the knees. Makes walking a bit difficult!

But the image shows the split is already evident in the belly and 2 thighs period of Greece, thus the 4th kingdom, Rome, is already standing on 2 very separated legs at its birth.
Therefore the split into two could not have come at some later date, thus excluding the Constantinople/Rome division.

I have prayed over this for many years, and I believe the two legs refers to the double nature of the Roman period, religion and politics (inc war), as used to control the people. And never forget, war is just politics by another means. Both strands were often at each other's throats, and both were obviously empowered by the spirit of Babylon.

I have shown how that east west shift of power in Imperialism moved over the succeeding centuries. Remember the only thing that is different from all the rest of the beasts is that Rome started a brand new form of rule--Imperialism! That Imperialism has continued in the 2 leg form to this day!

I'm still not convinced. In my view all previous kingdoms were empire building.

It should surprise you that in the heaviest Catholic areas: N. America, Europe, and S. America, catholics vote more against papal decrees in their national elections than they vote for them!

Once again, if Rome once again gets real political power where it can shape world events by its decrees, and it can command armies at its will (not even Spain, France and Italy would yield their armies to the Vatican as of now), and a Pope rises to global power so he can enforce the treaty with Israel that starts the 70th week of Daniel, then yes, a pope can be the antichrist. But given what is now- the best he can rise to is false prophet.

This is where my religious/military perspective comes in.

Throughout history, the Roman church has set up kings and deposed them, all the way to recent times. Occasionally, its military also deposed and set up new Popes!
Now its the turn again for political Babylon to be in the ascendency, via the EU.

There are few active kings left in the world, having these days been replaced by Prime Ministers and Presidents. However, the Babylonian mantle of setting up and deposing has clearly fallen to the European Commission. As the Guardian puts it,-
"Italy’s Silvio Berlusconi and Greece’s Georgios Papandreou were replaced by technocrats."
And neither of which were elected by the people! ​

I was Catholic, became anti Catholic and have read many many books against Catholicism. My favorite is the two Babylons by Hislop. That clearly shows that so much of church ritual and tradition is deeply rooted in the ancient mystery religions from Babylon.

Hislop's book was an early part of my education.

 

[nolidad]

The Babylonian Govt has obviously survived in many forms.
As I have said previously, when Christ returns, he doesn't just destroy the toes of the great image, he destroys it all the way back to the head of gold.
Daniel is quite vivid in that particular description, but it proves that Babylon has remained active but hidden throughout the ages.

While this is a minor issue in eschatology- I cannot agree. The religious spirit survives globally but teh govt. spirit does not. I would love to see your cite that "proves" the outer symbols of the EU are Babylonianish.

When Jesus returns, He smashes the toes and the rest tumble!

Bsabylon didn't manifest itself in the Medeo/Persian rule, nor the Grecian rule, nor the four kings after alexander, nor in the Imperial rule that started with Rome! All had their own form of governance.

Hislop's book was an early part of my education.

As with me. He is wrong about the political power of Rome, but is spot on on the spiritual power of Rome.

You will have to ask them that question, but to me it just proves that the spirit of Babylon is alive and well in the EU institutions

I am asking you to show me the proof that the EU models Babylonian politics!

Th eend times-Babylon is mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots- that is a religious or spiritual system, not political.

I believe the roman Church will for the most part go into the tribulation and be Jexebel!

I'm still not convinced. In my view all previous kingdoms were empire building.

Yes but not through imperialism which has survived to this day in the two leg form!

This is where my religious/military perspective comes in.

Throughout history, the Roman church has set up kings and deposed them, all the way to recent times. Occasionally, its military also deposed and set up new Popes!
Now its the turn again for political Babylon to be in the ascendency, via the EU.​

Yes Kings ruled at the anointing of the pope. But the vatican never had a military that deposed one pope to establish another. Those were done by nation sates.

Political Babylon is over. Spiritual Babylon is on teh rise and ascendancy.

Politically it is in this order:

1. Th eone world govt.
2. The ten rulers over the world
3. the antichrist!

 

[nolidad]

The Babylonian Govt has obviously survived in many forms.
As I have said previously, when Christ returns, he doesn't just destroy the toes of the great image, he destroys it all the way back to the head of gold.
Daniel is quite vivid in that particular description, but it proves that Babylon has remained active but hidden throughout the ages.

if it is obvious- then you can demonstrate where and how it has survived till this day! I can demonstrate how the form of Govt. Rome initiated still survives to this day.

And as the time of the gentiles started with Babylon- yes the whole statue falls when Jesus returns.. But the Medio/Persian Empire was not babylonianish, nor the Grecian Empire, nor the Rome/imperial form either.

Institutional Christianity certainly does, but virtually all churches have some spiritual heritage running back to the RC church.

Well as teh RC church does have many biblical truths it holds- that is a non starter.

 

[Francis Drake]

While this is a minor issue in eschatology- I cannot agree. The religious spirit survives globally but teh govt. spirit does not.

The EU is part of the NWO plan for world government, one of the ten toes.
The EU is all about globalism, the drive to global government, which of course will be tyrannical.
The Climate change hoax is also about globalism, getting all nations to work in unison, ready for global government.
The drive towards a cashless society is about globalism, a One World currency.
Mass immigration is all about globalism, destroying the integrity of nation states.
Etc etc.
The driving force behind all of the above is the Spirit of Babylon.

Babylon works jointly with false religion and political power. That has always been the case, but is very evident through the whole of Rome's existence, particularly the last 2000 years, including today in the EU.

The Woman riding the beast of Revelation 17 represents Religion riding on the back of political/military power.

Rev17v3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet beast being full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls, holding a golden cup in her hand, being full of abominations and the impurity of her sexual immorality. 5And upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery:

Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes, and of the abominations of the earth.

To understand the above, you need to abandon the false paradigm that the two legs are Constantinople and Rome. That notion is obviously erroneous as the two legs already existed at the very beginning of Rome, even in the two thighs of Greece.
For it to be the two cities, the legs of the great image would have to be still joined together at the knees.

I would love to see your cite that "proves" the outer symbols of the EU are Babylonianish.

I am perplexed.
Did you not look at the photos I posted, all about Babylon?
Did you not see the European Parliament building, designed to emulate the Tower of Babel?
Did you not see the official EU posters of the Tower of Babel?
Did you not read the quote on that Tower of Babel poster, "Many Languages, One People".
Did you not see the pictures of the "Woman riding the beast" on all the postage stamps?
Did you not see the "Woman riding the Beast" on the Euro Coinage and the ECU coinage?
Did you not see all the sculptures of the woman riding the beast?

Are you denying these are references to Babylon?
What more do you want?

When Jesus returns, He smashes the toes and the rest tumble!

Bsabylon didn't manifest itself in the Medeo/Persian rule, nor the Grecian rule, nor the four kings after alexander, nor in the Imperial rule that started with Rome! All had their own form of governance.

It's called "Mystery Babylon" because its hidden away most of the time. That's what the name means. Just because you can't see it, that doesn't mean its not there!

Th eend times-Babylon is mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots- that is a religious or spiritual system, not political.

No. The demonic power of Babylon works through both religious and military, and always has done.

I believe the roman Church will for the most part go into the tribulation and be Jexebel!

Ah Jezebel!
Jezebel and Ahab represent a classic Babylonian theme.
Ahab is the legitimate king, but very carnal and immature. He abdicates responsibility and lets Jezebel ride on his back ,using his military power for her purposes.
As I said, a classic Babylon theme, even before Nebuchadnezzar had his dream!

Yes Kings ruled at the anointing of the pope. But the vatican never had a military that deposed one pope to establish another. Those were done by nation sates.

I never said the Vatican deposed Popes. The Popes set up kings and deposed them, and occasionally the reverse being true.

Political Babylon is over. Spiritual Babylon is on teh rise and ascendancy.

Absolutely not, they still work hand in hand, as they have always done.
Revelation 17v1 1And one of the seven angels having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, (Mystery Babylon) the one sitting upon many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and those dwelling on the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
The kings of the earth mentioned above obviously represent the various governments of the earth, who commit fornication with religious Babylon.
Now remember what Paul said? 1Cor6v16Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”
This is quite clear, the prostitute and her partner(s) become one flesh or one body.
Therefore in spiritual terms, the Woman and the Beast (Kings or governments of the Earth) have become one flesh!

 

[nolidad]

It's called "Mystery Babylon" because its hidden away most of the time. That's what the name means. Just because you can't see it, that doesn't mean its not there!

Its called mystery because it is the mysteries of the false religion systems all have (including in Christendom!) The mystery religions have survived and still thrive in many many places.

To understand the above, you need to abandon the false paradigm that the two legs are Constantinople and Rome. That notion is obviously erroneous as the two legs already existed at the very beginning of Rome, even in the two thighs of Greece.
For it to be the two cities, the legs of the great image would have to be still joined together at the knees.

Well I hold they started with rome and constantinople and have moved over the centuries. Daniels vision and the times of the gentiles start with Babylon and continue until Jesus returns. There is no millenial+gap in the ruling of the times of the Gentiles and history shows that the powers of the east west divide in the statue have specific locations. They are also nearing the end of their tenure to give way to a one world govt!

I am perplexed.
Did you not look at the photos I posted, all about Babylon?
Did you not see the European Parliament building, designed to emulate the Tower of Babel?
Did you not see the official EU posters of the Tower of Babel?
Did you not read the quote on that Tower of Babel poster, "Many Languages, One People".
Did you not see the pictures of the "Woman riding the beast" on all the postage stamps?
Did you not see the "Woman riding the Beast" on the Euro Coinage and the ECU coinage?
Did you not see all the sculptures of the woman riding the beast?

Are you denying these are references to Babylon?
What more do you want?

These do not refer back to ancient Babylon but to teh one world govt. to come and the one world super church. Ecumenism and one worldism is global and just not European.

Babylon was rebuilt and is destined to become the capital of the antichrist if one takes scripture as written.

(BTW the tower of Babel is not Babylon) The Woman is a false religious system riding over the ten kings that rule the whole world- that is not Babylonianish eoither but a future event.

But if you tied all these to the ancient kingdom of Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar- I missed it in allteh pictures and such you posted on that particular post.

sorry but everytime God uses a woman symbolically it is always a religious system and when He calls her a harlot it is a corrupt or false religious system. Israel and Judah were called harlots many times by god and it was never because of their governmental and military powers.

Absolutely not, they still work hand in hand, as they have always done.
Revelation 17v1 1And one of the seven angels having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, (Mystery Babylon) the one sitting upon many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and those dwelling on the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
The kings of the earth mentioned above obviously represent the various governments of the earth, who commit fornication with religious Babylon.
Now remember what Paul said? 1Cor6v16Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”
This is quite clear, the prostitute and her partner(s) become one flesh or one body.
Therefore in spiritual terms, the Woman and the Beast (Kings or governments of the Earth) have become one flesh!

Well this is another time I am asking you to show how any government of this world matches ancient babylon under Nebuchadnezzar! Remember Daniel very clearly said that the head of God was not Babylon but Nebuchadnezzar!

But I will even accept you showing th emilitary and political power of power from Nebuchadnezzar until Balshazar and then compare them to any modern government and how they coincide!

And going back to the Tower of Babel does not count fro that happened long before Nebuchadnezzr!

 

[Francis Drake]

Its called mystery because it is the mysteries of the false religion systems all have (including in Christendom!) The mystery religions have survived and still thrive in many many places.

Mystery simply means something hidden or concealed. Babylon is concealed behind both religious and political Rome.
It is not exclusively religion.

Well I hold they started with rome and constantinople and have moved over the centuries.

You can hold that theory all you like, but scripture utterly denies its possibility. The Roman Empire was 1000 years old before your split, yet the great image states the split occurred either at Rome's inception, or just before it!
Before you go any further, you have to address that glaring error in your theology. You can't just sidestep it!

Daniels vision and the times of the gentiles start with Babylon and continue until Jesus returns. There is no millenial+gap in the ruling of the times of the Gentiles and history shows that the powers of the east west divide in the statue have specific locations. They are also nearing the end of their tenure to give way to a one world govt!

I agree the times of the gentiles started at Babylon, and there's no millennial gap. But despite its popularity amongst prophetic teachers, your East West divide is a provably false foundation.

These do not refer back to ancient Babylon but to teh one world govt. to come and the one world super church. Ecumenism and one worldism is global and just not European.

Why on earth would the NWO drag up so many ancient motifs etc from ancient Babylon, if they were looking forward to something new.
And yes, I constantly argue it's not just Europe, but global empire building. Europe merely being one of ten toe kingdoms.

Babylon was rebuilt and is destined to become the capital of the antichrist if one takes scripture as written.

No, Babylon was never rebuilt, and I personally do not believe the ancient physical city of Babylon has a future.
Just as after Babylon was destroyed the golden head remained atop the great image of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, so spiritual Babylon lives through the subsequent empires till the whole image is destroyed by Christ in one go.
In my view Babylon is now hidden in religious Rome, and political Rome (the EU).

(BTW the tower of Babel is not Babylon)

Sorry but this is wrong again. Babylon is Babel, the difference just being translational. Wherever you see Babylon mentioned in the OT, check the Hebrew and it will read as Babel.

The Woman is a false religious system riding over the ten kings that rule the whole world- that is not Babylonianish either but a future event.

Those ten kings also have seven horns, which represent a historic sequence of kings, five of which had already fallen at the time of writing Revelation.
The spirit of Babylon had travelled down the line of each one of those kings, and will end up controlling the last king when Christ returns. To claim the woman riding the beast is just a future event has no basis in fact.

But if you tied all these to the ancient kingdom of Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar- I missed it in allteh pictures and such you posted on that particular post.

I fail to see how you could miss something so glaringly obvious and officially deliberate.

sorry but everytime God uses a woman symbolically it is always a religious system and when He calls her a harlot it is a corrupt or false religious system. Israel and Judah were called harlots many times by god and it was never because of their governmental and military powers.

To claim God's accusation of harlotry against Israel and Judah was never because of their governmental and military powers, is massively wide of the mark.
Typically, the "Sin of Jeroboam" which cause Israel to sin, was entirely because Jeroboam installed golden calves in Bethel and Dan, telling the Israelites "These are your Gods".

There are many similar examples throughout the OT.

The spiritual direction Israel and Judah took was entirely down to the kings they had at the time. It was usually the kings who took their nations into harlotry. In many ways, the priests were like Civil Servants, serving their earthly master rather than God.

Well this is another time I am asking you to show how any government of this world matches ancient babylon under Nebuchadnezzar! Remember Daniel very clearly said that the head of God was not Babylon but Nebuchadnezzar!

Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar effectively that God had appointed him king over the whole earth. Clearly Babylon was a city state whose power never stretched that far, so that has never happened.
However it will eventually happen through the descendant kingdoms of Babylon's reign. For that to happen, the spirit of Babylon has to be present in all subsequent kingdoms.

And going back to the Tower of Babel does not count fro that happened long before Nebuchadnezzr!

I'm not jumping through silly hoops to please you, but for what its worth the Tower of Babel is where the Spirit of Babylon started, and if you don't understand that, there's little point in continuing the discussion.
Additionally, until you accept that the Constantinople/Rome split cannot be the two legs of the great image, your eschatology will always be on a false foundation, making you blind to other facts.

 

[nolidad]

Mystery simply means something hidden or concealed. Babylon is concealed behind both religious and political Rome.
It is not exclusively religion.

Not according to history and how the Jews knew about the "mystery religions"

You can hold that theory all you like, but scripture utterly denies its possibility. The Roman Empire was 1000 years old before your split, yet the great image states the split occurred either at Rome's inception, or just before it!
Before you go any further, you have to address that glaring error in your theology. You can't just sidestep it!

Wrong it is the only thing in human history that fits SCripture to a tee! Remember the four kingdoms started with Nebuchadnezzar and ends with the Return of Jesus. There is no biblical near 2 millenia break int eh times of the Gentiles.

And Rome started having 2 capitals in 286 AD and Rome fell in 476 AD. The Roman Empire did not start c. 714 B.C. almost a century before Nebuchadnezzar reigned in Babylon.

Waiting for you to show me this supposed "glaring error".

Sorry but this is wrong again. Babylon is Babel, the difference just being translational. Wherever you see Babylon mentioned in the OT, check the Hebrew and it will read as Babel.

But the tower of Babel had nothing to do with the Babylonian Empire. They are sperated by nearly a millenia! The kingdom was not a one world one language kingdom!

I agree the times of the gentiles started at Babylon, and there's no millennial gap. But despite its popularity amongst prophetic teachers, your East West divide is a provably false foundation.

And yet Rome divided in 286 (as far as capitals went) into two and rome collapsed in 476 and the imperial form of government can be traced form those days till now! And it has stayed an east west division. And the east/west division is not popular amongst prophetic teachers AFAIK.

Will await you to show me this supposed "provably false foundation."

Why on earth would the NWO drag up so many ancient motifs etc from ancient Babylon, if they were looking forward to something new.
And yes, I constantly argue it's not just Europe, but global empire building. Europe merely being one of ten toe kingdoms.

Because you mistake the efforts at the Tower of Babel, with the first Gentile kingdom of the Statue, beasts- The Babylonian Empire! They are not the same. Babel was far different than any Babylonian King.

Those ten kings also have seven horns, which represent a historic sequence of kings, five of which had already fallen at the time of writing Revelation.
The spirit of Babylon had travelled down the line of each one of those kings, and will end up controlling the last king when Christ returns. To claim the woman riding the beast is just a future event has no basis in fact.

Well show how the five Julio/Claudian dynasty of Cesars had Babylonian Spirit in them.

And these ten kings have seven kings on them? Wrong the only time the 7 kings are called is Rev. 17 and they are the 7 mountains.

Daniel 2- ten toes, Daniel 7 tan horns,Revelation 12 ten horns, REv. 17- 7 heads and ten horns and the heads are the kings!

And your listing them as Cesars is just wrong!
History shows that John was exiled to Patmos under Domitian and he was teh 11th cesar!

To claim God's accusation of harlotry against Israel and Judah was never because of their governmental and military powers, is massively wide of the mark.
Typically, the "Sin of Jeroboam" which cause Israel to sin, was entirely because Jeroboam installed golden calves in Bethel and Dan, telling the Israelites "These are your Gods".

There are many similar examples throughout the OT.

The spiritual direction Israel and Judah took was entirely down to the kings they had at the time. It was usually the kings who took their nations into harlotry. In many ways, the priests were like Civil Servants, serving their earthly master rather than God.

I wish you could see how silly your defense of a military /political sin being harlotry. Israels harlotry was because they worshipped idols not because they had some kind of bad govt. or military might. It was spiritual adultery and always will be spiritual adultery.

Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar effectively that God had appointed him king over the whole earth. Clearly Babylon was a city state whose power never stretched that far, so that has never happened.
However it will eventually happen through the descendant kingdoms of Babylon's reign. For that to happen, the spirit of Babylon has to be present in all subsequent kingdoms.

Now just show this claim of yours from SCripture and I will give up what I have learned. Show me one verse that says that the spirit of Nebuchadnezzar will remain and eventually sweep the earth!

I'm not jumping through silly hoops to please you, but for what its worth the Tower of Babel is where the Spirit of Babylon started, and if you don't understand that, there's little point in continuing the discussion.
Additionally, until you accept that the Constantinople/Rome split cannot be the two legs of the great image, your eschatology will always be on a false foundation, making you blind to other facts.

Well I agree that the Tower started the mystery religions of the earth without a doubt! The people corrupted many proper things at the tower and also under Nimrod.

Maybe you should explicitly define what you mean by the spirit of Babylon? I fully agree it is a spiritual thing, but to call it a governmental and military thing is a stretch I cannot find anywhere in Scripture or history. I see the Eu, secularists, and New Agers all invoke parts of the mystery religions that started with Nimrod/semiramis and the tower.

 

[Biblewriter]

All attempts to interpret Bible prophecy on the basis of current events are doomed to failure, because that is a backwards approach. Instead, we should interpret current events in the light of Bible prophecy.

 

[nolidad]

All attempts to interpret Bible prophecy on the basis of current events are doomed to failure, because that is a backwards approach. Instead, we should interpret current events in the light of Bible prophecy.

Too many people here on this thread (which is a perfect sample of the body fo Christ) take a close enough approach. If it comes close then it must fulfill prophecy. Prophecy has to be fulilled 100% not like Ivory soap at 99 and 44/100% fulfilled. That is not a fulfilled prophecy.

A great teacher I studied under said too much of Christianity read prophecy and interpreted it with "newspaper exegesis".

 

[thomas15]

Jesus tells his followers in Matt ch 24 (in particular beginning at vs 15) that regarding the details of the end times we should pay particular attention to Daniel, in particular Daniel ch 9. Those that look with anticipation to His coming should make it their business to understand what Daniel has to say. A Biblical argument can be made that those predictions made by Daniel will be fulfilled in exact and precise detail.

Also in Matthew 24:22 Jesus puts a major hurt on the allegorical interpretation as practiced by those who insist in the reformed doctrine of election. If Jesus was referring to the elect as the Calvinist defines the term, then Jesus vs 22 comments would serve no useful purpose.

 

[Amittai]

The Babylonian govt. has not survived over the millenia, but the whorish relious psirit has. ...

When I was a Catholic lad in the 60's I would agree with you! Now- no! The church has been rocked with scandal after scandal. Most Catholics are niminal in their religion. They have a severe shortage of priests and sisters and nuns. Every week dozens of parishes globally are shutting down. Yes the Pope makes his proclamations but his influenced has waned over the decades! Most of Europe and the US are nominally Catholic and oppossed to much of the positions of Rome. That is a church on the decline not maintaining some intense political power! ... But given what is now- the best he can rise to is false prophet.

I was Catholic, became anti Catholic and have read many many books against Catholicism. My favorite is the two Babylons by Hislop. That clearly shows that so much of church ritual and tradition is deeply rooted in the ancient mystery religions from Babylon.

Most "sovereignty" (a buzz word) resides in "enclaves" or "territories". Affiliations, franchises are influential. The link between the Pope's pastoral statements and the activities of the various staff is highly complex. I shall decline to suggest search terms.

 

[nolidad]

Most "sovereignty" (a buzz word) resides in "enclaves" or "territories". Affiliations, franchises are influential. The link between the Pope's pastoral statements and the activities of the various staff is highly complex. I shall decline to suggest search terms.

And the Papal and Vatican influence in the world has waned greatly! They may be the largest cult in Christendom, but most Catholics have little to no loyalty to Rome or the Pope!

 

[Amittai]

... in "enclaves" or "territories". Affiliations, franchises are influential. The link between the Pope's pastoral statements and the activities of the various staff is highly complex ...

The influence is of a different kind.

I never said that is influence of a christian kind.

Please imagine that in spite of the delicacy I am hinting at an evolved situation.

Please pray that christians and self-describing catholics will be discerning, and that God will give others providential guidance.

A grumbling and confused loyalty may be a loyalty yet.

Dr Paisley was strangely prophetic.