How does a person get saving faith?

[BBAS 64]

Do you not believe that God's spirit is in all human beings.

Good day, Ahermit

Nope.. there is a purpose cause for the indwelling Spirit, all humans do not show the results of the walking and obeying.

Eze 36 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

In Him,

Bill

 

[GenemZ]

Good Day, Peter

As a gentile I see the end of Romans 10 as a great deceleration of God in His transforming power though the instrumental means of the Preaching of the Gospel.

Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."

In Him,

Bill

The Jews soon after birth were taught to seek the Lord by men. They had to be taught. But, Jesus said that those who come to Him will be "taught by God."

God's drawing of men is invisible and works in our subconscious mind.

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,
and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets:
‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father
and learned from him comes to me." Jn 6:44-45​

Note! Jesus said, "taught."

Not, dragged and coerced into salvation, as hyper-Calvinists would want us to believe.

 

[Ahermit]

NOT AT ALL! We have only a soul and body before regeneration.

There would be no need to be born again if what you just stated were truth.

Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
​

Unbelievers are spiritually DEAD! But,, physically alive. Only soul and body.

The person without the spirit does not accept the things that come
from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot
understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
1 Cor 2:14

​

grace and peace

NIV of 1 Cor 2:14 is somewhat misleading.
NKJV is ...
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Meaning that the natural man has not the mind to reference life from the spirit, but only from the world.

Everybody has the spirit of God breathed into them to give them life.

This is before the baptism of the Holy Spirit: Matthew 10:20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

In other words, they will be speaking what is true.

Everybody already knows what is their own truth, nobody can escape it. Everybody is responsible for their own thoughts and actions. Everybody knows what is right. Even those who are in denial, or even ignorant, must 'know' what it is they are avoiding (usually the truth) before they can deny or ignore it.

 

[Ahermit]

Good day, Ahermit

Nope.. there is a purpose cause for the indwelling Spirit, all humans do not show the results of the walking and obeying.

Eze 36 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

In Him,

Bill

Of course there are those who fear the 'truth' and will try to ignore (ignorance) or deny (denial) it; but they ALL know that they had to 'know' what they ignored/denied before pleading ignorance/denial.

Everybody is pesponsible for their own thoughts and actions _ nothing can be hidden forever.

 

[GenemZ]

NIV of 1 Cor 2:14 is somewhat misleading.
NKJV is ...
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Glad you brought that up. I was not wanting to make my initial post too long.

The NIV actually gave an accurate rendition of the original intent of the text. For the Greek does not say "natural man" either!

The Greek uses a specific word for the soul of a man. "Psuchikos."

The "psuchikos man"/"soul-ish man."

The reason the Greek calls him a "psuchikos" man?

Is because he is only body and soul! Having no human spirit. That is why the NIV translated as it had. Someone did their homework on that one.

How some translations decided upon "natural man?" Is most likely that man in his natural state is born only soul and body.

The Greek also has words concerning the "spiritual man." Its not to be found in 1 Corinthians 2:14.


grace and peace

 

[Ahermit]

@genez , it seems that you believe that only the selected can possibly recognize any truth, either in this world, or in the spiritual world. So, how then does an unselected one become selected?

 

[GenemZ]

@genez , it seems that you believe that only the selected can possibly recognize any truth, either in this world, or in the spiritual world. So, how then does an unselected one become selected?

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, so that you are not to do whatever
you want." Gal 5:17​

What is our enemy in relationship to God?

Is it our soul? Or, is it our flesh?

...

 

[LoveofTruth]

I know how I got saved. But how would you say a person gets saving faith? Feel free to share how you got faith.

Ephesians 3:17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,”

me hen Christ dwells in us he is the substance and evidence of faith this is saving faith.

Jesus said

John 15:4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

 

[GenemZ]

Ephesians 3:17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,”

Jesus is the the Word! The Word is God! John 1:1

And, that same Word became flesh!

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son,
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14​

The more sound teaching we crave for and find? And, believe it? The more we will have the Lord being manifested in our hearts! The key is sound doctrine! The Holy Spirit can only empower what is Truth!

Christ is to dwell in us ... But, without Truth? The Holy Spirit can not glorify Christ by means of only "good intentions." We have to demand sound teaching of God's Word. many go along with the herd, and many pastors tell their flocks what they know their flocks naturally want to hear. Not all pastors. James 3:1, tells us we should only find a few pastors. But, we now have a great many. Why?

His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not ours.

We should all pray to the Father in Jesus name to find sound doctrine for every area of our lives.
For, Christ can not be revealed in us without it being sound doctrine! Stubborn determination is not to be confused for true convictions. Pounding the pulpit does not make well intentioned, sloppy thinking, into Truth.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Tim 4:3​

Do we want sound doctrine? Or, do we simply know its a good thing, and say we do to be well thought of? Its a fight for truth we face. The good fight. Many will compromise and seek the harmony of conformity of human viewpoint to be a part of a group, while using the Word erroneously to achieve that goal.

Some will say... "That's life!"

And, then, there is always His Life.

grace and peace

 

[bling]

Good Day, Bling

Really how from scripture did you come to that conclusion Paul is pretty clear.

2TH 3:1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.

In Him,

Bill

Paul seems to be addressing specifically saving faith which can come later.
Paul did not say: God has not given them saving faith.

 

[bling]

I don't care which translation you use they all say that Faith comes from God.

I was going back to the Greek?

 

[GenemZ]

Paul seems to be addressing specifically saving faith which can come later.
Paul did not say: God has not given them saving faith.

It says specifically that we have been saved *by*grace, *through* faith.
Not, saved by faith.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me
was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them
—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." 1 Cor 15:10​

Paul reveals that Grace is God's enabling power. We are saved BY grace.

Faith comes by hearing the Word. (Romans 10:17) We are not saved BY faith. It says we are saved THROUGH faith... As if faith were an escape tunnel on the battlefield for our souls. Grace gave us the strength (which we incapable of having in out flesh) to take the faith to safety.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." Eph 2:8​

We are saved by God's grace. We are saved through faith.

Its by Grace giving us the power to think clearly when presented the Word (for our faith). In doing so, God's grace insulates our soul from the oppressive sin nature in our flesh that would automatically prevent our ability to choose by punching and shouting down the truth for our soul to consider.

We are not saved by faith. We are saved by grace. Once the grace is applied we then can run to safety through the Word of God (faith) we are presented.

....

 

[Ahermit]

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, so that you are not to do whatever
you want." Gal 5:17​

What is our enemy in relationship to God?

Is it our soul? Or, is it our flesh?

...

To discern what is God (Truth) and what is our enemy in relation to God requires an element of 'know' what is the truth. So, how is the unselected to 'know' the truth, unless they , through the spirit of God within them, recognizes what is truth.

To answer your questions, which are somewhat erroneous.
Soul originally comes from God, and starts out as a child of innocence. What the soul becomes is based on our beliefs and faith on what we 'know' is true. Whatever it harbors as untrue is what you call the enemy in relation to God.

Flesh, or body, is a vessel, a vehicle for the soul and spirit. As long as we are not in faith to God's-will, the body is totally used by the 'self', and not for God. The problem, in this case, is that the unfaithful believe that they are the body, instead of being aware that they have a body. The purpose of the the body is to express God's will, God's Truth, Love and Faith throughout this world; to let others know that God is here, on earth, through the faithful ones. So, the flesh, without God's will, is being used for 'selfish' reasons (self-will).

So, both soul, and flesh, can be for God, or against God.

 

[Tolworth John]

I was going back to the Greek?

And all English translations put it the way I quoted, so I suspect you are mistaken.

 

[GenemZ]

To discern what is God (Truth) and what is our enemy in relation to God requires an element of 'know' what is the truth. So, how is the unselected to 'know' the truth, unless they , through the spirit of God within them, recognizes what is truth.

To answer your questions, which are somewhat erroneous.
Soul originally comes from God, and starts out as a child of innocence. What the soul becomes is based on our beliefs and faith on what we 'know' is true. Whatever it harbors as untrue is what you call the enemy in relation to God.

Flesh, or body, is a vessel, a vehicle for the soul and spirit. As long as we are not in faith to God's-will, the body is totally used by the 'self', and not for God. The problem, in this case, is that the unfaithful believe that they are the body, instead of being aware that they have a body. The purpose of the the body is to express God's will, God's Truth, Love and Faith throughout this world; to let others know that God is here, on earth, through the faithful ones. So, the flesh, without God's will, is being used for 'selfish' reasons (self-will).

So, both soul, and flesh, can be for God, or against God.

Totally obliterated the point. Shifted the field completely.

Congratulations! You just graduated Obfuscation 101.

I will try once more....

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, so that you are not to do whatever
you want." Gal 5:17​

What is our enemy in relationship to God? (for those who have one)

Is it our soul? Or, is it our flesh?

(hint) One always will to be our enemy by nature. One does not have to be.

Now? Is the soul our enemy? (can be)

Is our flesh our enemy? (always will be!)

In drawing a soul God must always neutralize the flesh. Why?

That way, the soul can make a choice for or against. It can be a mater of false doctrine vs sound doctrine. It can be about salvation itself.

In other words? God's power of grace MUST neutralize the domineering effect the flesh has over a man's soul in order for that soul to make a real choice. It can turn out to be against, or it can be for. But, it will be that soul making its choice by grace!


grace and peace....

 

[BBAS 64]

Paul seems to be addressing specifically saving faith which can come later.
Paul did not say: God has not given them saving faith.

Good day, Bling

There is no equivocation in the text as you seem to appeal to...

I will take Paul at his very direct statement.... not all men have Faith.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Ahermit]

Totally obliterated the point. Shifted the field completely.

Congratulations! You just graduated Obfuscation 101...grace and peace....

You missed the point about the flesh as a vessel/temple.

It is funny how you mix insult with grace & peace.
As Jesus said to Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Perhaps if you accept the grace with an open heart, other truths will merge with it, and peace will follow.

 

[GenemZ]

You missed the point about the flesh as a vessel/temple.

It is funny how you mix insult with grace & peace.
As Jesus said to Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Perhaps if you accept the grace with an open heart, other truths will merge with it, and peace will follow.

Shifted the field completely. Again. There was a point made that you shifted away from. And never seem to have seen what it was. That is how truth gets way sided so no one learns a point that was given.

Not rude so much. Annoyed when another ignores (which is being rude to the one ignored).

The Flesh is the enemy to our soul in the spiritual life. If God's grace did nothing? The flesh of every person would reject the Gospel by default.

Calvinists say that we are totally depraved because both soul and flesh will reject God by default. That God must drag and sovereignly force a man into belief. Arminianism believes that man is somehow naturally containing some good that enters into belief. Arminianism actually presents a case for not needing grace in the process of salvation.

I repeat. Its the corruption of the flesh that dominates over the soul. The soul is ensalved to the flesh which must reject God. But? When God gives the power of grace to neutralize the flesh's power over a soul? While that grace is being applied, that soul has been momentarily made free to make a decision free of the flesh.

That all I was saying. Its quite simple. But, obfuscation scatters what should be simple into complexity. Even if done in a polite manner.

 

[Ahermit]

Shifted the field completely. Again. There was a point made that you shifted away from. And never seem to have seen what it was. That is how truth gets way sided so no one learns a point that was given.

Not rude so much. Annoyed when another ignores (which is being rude to the one ignored).

The Flesh is the enemy to our soul in the spiritual life. If God's grace did nothing? The flesh of every person would reject the Gospel by default.

Calvinists say that we are totally depraved because both soul and flesh will reject God by default. That God must drag and sovereignly force a man into belief. Arminianism believes that man is somehow naturally containing some good that enters into belief. Arminianism actually presents a case for not needing grace in the process of salvation.

I repeat. Its the corruption of the flesh that dominates over the soul. The soul is ensalved to the flesh which must reject God. But? When God gives the power of grace to neutralize the flesh's power over a soul? While that grace is being applied, that soul has been momentarily made free to make a decision free of the flesh.

That all I was saying. Its quite simple. But, obfuscation scatters what should be simple into complexity. Even if done in a polite manner.

I know what you are saying.

Humans have three parts, body-mind-soul. The mind operates between body and soul. The flesh as you call it is controlled by the body-mind, and its identity is the 'self' (I, self, me [ism]). The soul is controlled by the soul-mind, and its identity is Being (inner being/spirit). The soul, as long as the 'self' is active, does not recognize the body, until we die to the self so the soul can utilize the body as a means of expressing God's will.

Though we have a body, we are not the body. Much like a driver is not the car. However, most people believe they are the body, and because of this identification with the body, they are in bondage to the flesh, which is against the Truth of the matter. Because of this bondage, the soul ends up believing that it too is part of the flesh, and when the body dies, so too does the soul.

Flesh, is the belief of being the body.

 

[GenemZ]

I know what you are saying.

Humans have three parts, body-mind-soul.

I understand that a believer is three parts - human spirit, soul, and body.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes 5:23

There are three parts to the believer. But, its not body, mind, and soul. For your soul is your mind as well.

The Bible in the Greek breaks down the two operations of our mind. Kardia and Nous.

Kardia we see translated "heart." Nous is translated "mind."

Our mind -nous - is where we gather information through study and observation. That information is stored in memory of the nous for later retrieval if needed by your heart. When you took a written test it was the strength of your 'nous' being tested. When application in your life is needed of that knowledge, its then transferred and operating in your 'heart'- kardia.

The heart -kardia - is the central part of your expression of your unique life. Its what you have thought through and determined as to what you want to believe, think, and act upon.

Another interesting point:

The Bible in the Greek breaks down the functions of the two hemispheres of our human brain. Nous, and Kardia. Also the Hebrew has its own words to describe the same function of the human soul.

Adam was created trichotomous. Three parts. Body, soul, and human spirit.

When first created Adam was spiritual in nature. When he fell he became spiritually dead. Then he became body and soul only. After repentance the Lord restored Adam in regeneration.

Keep in mind. When the Lord provided those animal skins for Adam and Eve, blood had been shed on their behalf. For both Adam and Eve inwardly repented and God restored them spiritually.

grace and peace...