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Featured How does a person get saving faith?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by zoidar, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. 1Reformedman

    1Reformedman Active Member

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    John 9:31
     
  2. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Were you once lost?
     
  3. 1Reformedman

    1Reformedman Active Member

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    You answer a question with one? Since when is that discussion?
     
  4. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    That applies to the believer!

    If you choose to live in sin? Your prayers while in sin will not be heard.


    If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Psalm 66:18


    What one would need to do if committing sin? Before praying for anything to be heard? Is to first recognize/admit sin in our life, and acknowledge it to God in order to regain the filling of the Spirit.


    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    If we confess/acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
    our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

    1 John 1:8-10
     
  5. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Well, you hold the answer by you very own experience. Unless you got saved at a very tender age and never experienced the hardness that sin causes before salvation.

    Did you not find yourself unconditionally loving the truth... even the little truth you first received? Its not done by the one lost while he is lost. Its what God causes after one believes by the Spirit.

    Did you believe Jesus died on the Cross for your sins? That all the Gentiles Peter preached to could know, and thousands believed. It did not take much to be saved. Its by grace.. not of works.
     
  6. 1Reformedman

    1Reformedman Active Member

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    Psalm 16 is also a true statement the psalmist came to understand. 1 John 1 has to do with believers. John 9:31 has to do with those who are still in bondage to their sins. Its simply a true statement. Notice the latter part of the verse. 31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him. The word BUT is a conjunction that changes the context. We know those who do the worship God and do the will of God he hears but those who don't are those who are still in bondage to their sins, aka the lost!!! They cant do the will of God because they are not subject to the law of God, nor can they be (Romans 8:7-8). They cant understand spiritual things either.
     
  7. 1Reformedman

    1Reformedman Active Member

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    Im a monergist. Im well versed.
     
  8. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Ok... I missed the context since it was never given. I should have looked it up.

    The man who had been blind and healed by Jesus was dodging the legalistic third degree given by the Pharisees. He was repeating Pharisaical dogma to them to make his case. They could not argue with their own dogma. Yet, they still bucked their own tiger and refused to reason even when using their own line of reasoning.

    On the other hand...

    God will not hear the sinner who cherishes sin in his heart. As long as an unbeliever thoroughly enjoys his area of sinning he can not be heard. Its God's job to bring that person to the point where their sin will cease to be cherished. While God draws the person that person may not desire what God is revealing in his heart above his sin... That is what makes the unbeliever remain unsaved. God honors volition in such matters if someone is determined not to reason. That person will reap what he sows. If he allowed for more drawing? Then that person would end up reaping what God sows.

    Some people suffer with self adoration. God will try to remove that illusion while drawing them. Yet, that type of soul is still free to deny truth if so desired, and to create lies to remain defiant.. In doing so, securing their own egoist idol.


    Romans 1:18-20 is a prime example. God succeeded at getting certain minds to come to knowing God is real. That is the basic level of drawing a soul. God's drawing 101. Yet, in reaction to this truth? Truth they have been made to see? They will turn around and suppress that truth with their own inventions of wickedness.

    We are inundated with such wicked inventions daily via the media, and by the centrally controlled education system.


    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness
    and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since
    what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it
    plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
    his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being under-
    stood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."


    The Greek of Romans 1:18-20 is saying that God caused them to know the truth about God. Other wise? They would be with excuse for rejecting God.

    The Holy Spirit drives this truth home. In turn,they will react violently if someone superior intellectually reproves them. They will try to suppress anyone who threatens their secured position of cleverly bamboozling society in regards to invented rationales which are lies. The theory of evolution is one of those inventions.

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  9. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    We all were hostile at some point before regeneration. Unless a very young child believes.

    Unbelievers cant understand spiritual things either..

    'The person without the spirit does not accept the things that come from
    the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand
    them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
    1 Cor 2:14​


    You could not understand spiritual things before you were saved.

    Wondering why someone would believe such things was not the same thing as understanding them.

    While being yet an unbeliever? If you were to sit in a class with someone covering doctrinal theology? You would not be able to understand it. For without regeneration it can not be comprehended. It would seem odd and foreign to you. And, if so inclined? Will see them as foolishness to you.

    Just the same..

    Any unsaved "unspiriual" person can relate to his own flesh/sin. He can understand that he sins. That is why we are to be saved by the Gospel... not theology class. 1 Cor 2:14 is about unbelievers not being able to gasp doctrinal teachings intended for the believer.

    btw... is that an AMC AMX I see?
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  10. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    Saving faith is a miracle that comes from God. Without the primary impulse of God no one would repent and believe.

    I grew up as an agnostic Catholic, one who feared a possible God but had no confidence in the Bible. In college, I experienced a lot of trials and began to be spiritually hungry while I lived as a nice guy/nominal Catholic.

    In my second year at college, a campus Christian group invited me to study the Bible. Slowly, God convinced me that the Bible was true.

    Then, I became convicted by the Holy Spirit that I was not a believer and was headed to Hell unless I repented. I resisted at first because I did not want to experience persecution for believing in Christ.

    Finally, I came to a crisis and recognized that I could not achieve my plans, thus I surrendered my will, repented of my unbelief and submitted to the lordship of Christ.
     
  11. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully, IMO the word of God clearly teaches there is no salvation, nor forgiveness, without repentance.

    is Acts 3:19 anti grace?
    Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out.

    The concept of salvation without repentance and leaning on God’s grace as an excuse to sin or avoid repentance is addressed in more than one part of the New Testament as false teaching.
    Romans 2:4 ESV / 3,240 helpful votes
    Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

    John 15 also among others.

    legalism is a terrible thing and there are many legalistic preachers who will be held accountable.

    I agree that repentance and works cannot and do not bring about salvation, but they do necessarily come from authentic salvation. Every time. Because that’s what the word tells us. The problem with not taking repentance seriously and free grace decisionism is that millions of unbelievers are told they are saved because they prayed a prayer and “believed in Jesus.” This inoculates them from the gospel because they think they are already saved. They aren’t, and their lives near that out. I lived this, pastor’s kid went to bible college, did missions...I always thought I was saved because I believed in Jesus death on the cross for my sins. Wasn’t enough. The demons believe. Jesus had to break my life to show me this lie—that we can live lives that don’t reflect repentance and a changed desire, bear no or little fruit, and be saved. I’m extremely grateful that God broke the necessary bones to help free me from a carnal Christian life.
     
  12. Woke

    Woke Member Supporter

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    The word was preached to me and I believed it, just like it is stated in Romans chapter 10.
     
  13. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would you mind telling how Romans 10 converged with your life?
     
  14. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    By deciding to believe Jesus.
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Here is how it happened for me --

    John 12:32 "I will draw all mankind unto Me"

    Rom 12
    3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

    2 Tim 3
    15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ
    Jesus.

    I grew up in the faith. Hearing bible stories and accepting Jesus as savior from my earliest childhood. Baptized at the age of 12 as at each step I chose to follow the path that Christ set for me... sinner though I am, forgiven in Christ, born again, alive in Christ.


    Rom 10
    9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
     
  16. 1Reformedman

    1Reformedman Active Member

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    Yes, its an AMC AMX you see. 1970.
    I disagree with much of your comment. It appears to me I hold a harsher view of depravity than you seem to hold.
     
  17. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Please.. Note when the word "repent" was used.

    Almost always when speaking to Jews who were taught to resist Jesus as the Messiah.

    But to Gentiles? They had no bias to over come and need to repent of. Simply "believe."

    And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

    So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,
    you and your household.”


    In Acts 16:30-31 no repentance was even mentioned to those Gentiles.
    For they were not biased towards Jesus as the Pharisees had poisoned the Jews with.

    Legalists love to club people over the head about their sins... It gives them a feeling of a sense of self justified power over others. There is a time to rebuke for sins. But, that is not good news when first hearing about Christ. Good news...

    Our sins are to be dealt with in an orderly way and resolved by God's Word after we are saved. Only after being given the Holy Spirit. Before regeneration we had no power to repent of sins. It was only after I was saved that I began to see my sins in a new light. The Spirit in me was guiding me into the new way of life. If I wanted to cling to some old sin? Then I would need to repent, and also have the enabling power to do so successfully while enduring the pain.

    If I had to repent of my sins before coming to Christ? I would have felt hopelessly unable to come to Christ. Legalism is a cruel master. It locks people up into a system, and then pushes them away from discovering the life liberating glories of seeing God's grace working in you to transform you into a person you can now love.
     
  18. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    Acts 3:19 was to Jews. Peter's day started at the Temple!

    When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Fellow Israelites, why does
    this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or
    godliness we had made this man walk?
    Acs 3:12​

    So when Peter said the following (including acts 3:19) it meant this to the Jews!

    “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did
    your leaders. But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through
    all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. Repent, then,
    and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of
    refreshing may come from the Lord.
    Acs 3:17-19​

    These Jews had been resisting belief in Jesus Christ! Peter told them they had been acting in ignorance! "That your sins may be wiped out"... Peter was telling them to change their mind about Jesus (to repent - stop being ignorant) and to no longer need animal sacrifices, for its the blood of Jesus that covers all our sins! No more animal sacrifices for your sins you Jews!

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
    with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us
    from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves
    and the truth is not in us.
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful
    and
    just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 Jn 1:7-9

    We are to simply confess /acknowledge our sins to God. Confess as our own priest. The blood of Jesus will always purify us when we do!


    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
    God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him
    who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
    1 Peter 2:9


    We are now to be our own priest before God! Not only to be priests. But Royalty! The Bride of the King!

    We do not need some man to confess our sins to. A man who claims he is the priest! For God's Word declares that we are a Royal Priesthood!

    So many are being robbed of the truth by ignorant men who "play church" like a child to gain power over others.




    grace and truth
     
  19. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    I guarantee you haven't repented of your sins or transgressions. The Bible testifies of our continual sinfulness, despite how much we try.

    Some are more sinful than others, but all sin leads to hell; and this shows that repenting from sins isn't required for salvation. Neither is baptism.
     
  20. genez

    genez Contributor Supporter

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    You don't hold a harsher view. Depravity is depravity. Its repulsed by God's presence if left to be itself. Grace short circuits the flesh's influence over the soul, so God can give His Word to that soul. If that soul likes what the Word says under the circumstances brought by Grace? Then that soul has been given FAITH to believe. Faith comes by hearing the Word.

    You can be as harsh as you like concerning the flesh. Its just some do not know how to show grace after someone is saved, and that believer is dealing with weaknesses. Its why (in part) we are told we need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
     
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