How does a Christian justify elevating something of this world above that which is God's?

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

For instance, I sat in a meeting today where a Christian school had the United States flag standing higher than what was representing the Christian nation? What are we telling God when we do that?

 

[Saucy]

I don't really think God cares if one flag is higher than another. There isn't a Christian 'nation' or a recognized national Christian flag. Many groups/churches may have their own flags. But in no way does it signify they are putting the flag or America above Christ. Also, take into consideration that there are certain rules and regulations for displaying the American flag correctly and no such rules exist for others.

 

[Albion]

Generally, it isn't done in the way that the OP describes, but flag etiquette does call for other flags not to be flown higher than the US flag. You didn't say what flag you saw, but the mainly white banner that is often called the "Christian flag" is unofficial and not in the least a bona fide, agreed-upon flag of a "Christian nation." Most churches do not use it.

 

[RaymondG]

If you feel that the position of flags can somehow praise or slight God, then you too, are elevating things of the world above that which is God.

 

[AnneY]

The Christian flag doesn't represent God, it represents Christianity as a whole. It's a symbol that doesn't have any deep meaning, so having another flag higher than it doesn't matter.

 

[RDKirk]

For instance, I sat in a meeting today where a Christian school had the United States flag standing higher than what was representing the Christian nation? What are we telling God when we do that?

If a person or group uses a flag as a symbol to represent their Christianity or the Church, then that group should place that flag higher than the flag of any earthly nation.

If they want to avoid controversy, they can simply not fly the US flag at all. The Church is the embassy of the Kingdom of Heaven, and other embassies in the US fly only their own national flags on embassy grounds.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

If a person or group uses a flag as a symbol to represent their Christianity or the Church, then that group should place that flag higher than the flag of any earthly nation.

If they want to avoid controversy, they can simply not fly the US flag at all. The Church is the embassy of the Kingdom of Heaven, and other embassies in the US fly only their own national flags on embassy grounds.

I agree with you. And I think it does matter to God. It is a statement of where your true allegiance lies.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Generally, it isn't done in the way that the OP describes, but flag etiquette does call for other flags not to be flown higher than the US flag. You didn't say what flag you saw, but the mainly white banner that is often called the "Christian flag" is unofficial and not in the least a bona fide, agreed-upon flag of a "Christian nation." Most churches do not use it.

Thank you for sharing what the US requires, so either (1) not flying the US flag or (2) not flying something they are acting like is the "Christian flag" would both be acceptable solutions. But, if one is claiming something represents the Christian nation, then it should not be lower than the US flag, among Christians. We should be considered "embassies", according to Scripture, like someone else shared below. And, apparently, it is okay to fly another flag without the US flag present, because on a major highway in NC (I-95), there is a huge confederate flag flying without the US flag anywhere in sight.

My point was if you are going to use something called a "Christian flag"; it should have preeminence, not second place. The God of the Bible has never liked second place. He has been very clear about that.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I don't really think God cares if one flag is higher than another. There isn't a Christian 'nation' or a recognized national Christian flag. Many groups/churches may have their own flags. But in no way does it signify they are putting the flag or America above Christ. Also, take into consideration that there are certain rules and regulations for displaying the American flag correctly and no such rules exist for others.

If it doesn't mean anything, then why post something representing the Christian flag in the first place? And, once you do that, you are putting value on it. And, your students are seeing you put value on it, behind and lower than the US flag. They don't know why. They just know your where you live is elevated higher than and placed before who you serve. You are putting it in second place.

If it doesn't mean anything, then don't go through the motions at all.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

The Christian flag doesn't represent God, it represents Christianity as a whole. It's a symbol that doesn't have any deep meaning, so having another flag higher than it doesn't matter.

If it has no meaning, then why fly it at all? But, if an institution is going to ascribe meaning to it, then shouldn't it be flown above the geographical country OR not at all?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

If you feel that the position of flags can somehow praise or slight God, then you too, are elevating things of the world above that which is God.

I wholeheartedly disagree, RaymondG. I wouldn't subscribe to it representing God or the church. But, when people do, they are making a statement--maybe out of ignorance--but they are still making a statement. And, when they are teaching children, they are teaching children that same ignorance. "The mark of the beast" may well be a "thing of this world" as well; but it has consequences. "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" is a thing of this world, but it has eternal consequences. The choice you make about Jesus is a choice made in this world, but it has eternal consequences. Willful ignorance may be bliss--until someone realizes that ignorance landed them in hell. What we do here matters to God.

 

[Albion]

Thank you for sharing what the US requires, so either (1) not flying the US flag or (2) not flying something they are acting like is the "Christian flag" would both be acceptable solutions. But, if one is claiming something represents the Christian nation, then it should not be lower than the US flag, among Christians.

I don't agree, for two reasons: (1) it is only a personal opinion that flying some banner that you and some other people call Christian above or below the national flag--if the church even chooses to fly the nation's flag--represents what you think that placement of flags does, and (2) it's not the flag of Christianity, the Christian "nation," or anything else like that. Someone just invented that design and a few churches use it and mean by it whatever they choose to think. I doubt that very many of them think it's in competition with the nation's flag as some sort of flag of what you call a "Christian nation."

My point was if you are going to use something called a "Christian flag"; it should have preeminence, not second place.

I understand what your opinion is. It's incorrect IMHO and I explained why that's so.

 

[RaymondG]

I wholeheartedly disagree, RaymondG. I wouldn't subscribe to it representing God or the church. But, when people do, they are making a statement--maybe out of ignorance--but they are still making a statement. And, when they are teaching children, they are teaching children that same ignorance. "The mark of the beast" may well be a "thing of this world" as well; but it has consequences. "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" is a thing of this world, but it has eternal consequences. The choice you make about Jesus is a choice made in this world, but it has eternal consequences. Willful ignorance may be bliss--until someone realizes that ignorance landed them in hell. What we do here matters to God.

I disagree as well. I believe all the things you described does not occur in the flesh.

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

 

[FenderTL5]

fascinating responses in this thread, especially if extrapolated across to the 'anthem' discussion.

 

[Albion]

If it has no meaning, then why fly it at all?

There are all sorts of possible reasons, but you have decided FOR THEM what it is supposed to mean, haven't you?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I don't agree, for two reasons: (1) it is only a personal opinion that flying some banner that you and some other people call Christian above or below the national flag--if the church even chooses to fly the nation's flag--represents what you think that placement of flags does, and (2) it's not the flag of Christianity, the Christian "nation," or anything else like that. Someone just invented that design and a few churches use it and mean by it whatever they choose to think. I doubt that very many of them think it's in competition with the nation's flag as some sort of flag of what you call a "Christian nation."


I understand what your opinion is. It's incorrect IMHO and I explained why that's so.

It saddens me that you have gone so far as to declare my concern as "incorrect"--simply judged so by your opinion without any listed Scriptural backing. It is one thing to have differing opinions (disagree), it is a whole other thing to declare something "incorrect" based on the weight of one person's opinion or another's. Shouldn't there be more Scriptural support, if you are going to make that determination?

(1) Your logic is incorrect--not based on my opinion--but based on what is said in regulations concerning the US flag. Value is given to the US flag, which is just a piece of cloth in and of itself. As a result, there is a whole code of expectations about how it should be displayed, when displayed. Here is one website displaying the Flag Code: Flag Code | The American Legion

(2) According to the Flag Code (not my opinion): if a flag's position is lower or leftward, it is considered of lower prominence (as noted on the website above). And, that is an expectation for all flags on US soil, that are displayed with the US Flag--with few exceptions, according to the Flag Code. Apparently, other nations also require their flag to be flown above all other flags on their soil, as well. So, this is not only a US custom. It is internationally recognized.

(3) Therefore, it is not absurd, or incorrect, to assume that someone flying or using another flag doesn't subscribe some value to it. If they didn't, they wouldn't fly it at all. I don't fly a flag that professes to be "the Christian flag" outside my house, because I don't accept that as representing God, Jesus Christ, or "the holy nation". But, if one flies it, they are subscribing some value to it. This idea is further supported by the fact that the school I spoke about had the kids pledge allegiance to that "Christian flag". Obviously (not my opinion), their rituals have placed value on that flag--as representing Christian beliefs--otherwise they wouldn't have people pledge allegiance to it.

For a Christian, should Jesus Christ ever have a position of lower prominence, as compared to anything in our lives?

I would cite that Jesus said: "Anyone who loves their father or their mother more than me is not worthy of me and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matt 10:37) In Hebrews: "...and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth, for they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly; wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared for them a city." (Heb 11:13-16) Jesus says "no one can serve two masters for he will hate the one and love the other or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Matt 6:24) Why wouldn't Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego bow to/worship the golden statue? (Daniel 3) Bowing is an open show of submission. If we are making an oath and declaring allegiance to a particular flag and what it represents, aren't we doing exactly what they refused to?

So considering what Jesus said about loving those in your own biological family more than Him; what if you demonstrate your patriotism to a particular country or political party more than your patriotism to God's country?

 

[Albion]

It saddens me that you have gone so far as to declare my concern as "incorrect"

Yeh. Quite a stinging indictment that--calling an idea 'incorrect.' I hope you can find a way to bear up under that burden.

 

[Boogaloo]

I don't really think God cares if one flag is higher than another. There isn't a Christian 'nation' or a recognized national Christian flag. Many groups/churches may have their own flags. But in no way does it signify they are putting the flag or America above Christ. Also, take into consideration that there are certain rules and regulations for displaying the American flag correctly and no such rules exist for others.

People feel so patriotic and they support their political party and candidate even if such is a liar, fornicator, thief and murderer. Now take that American flag at the church meeting and set it on fire all while trampling it into the ground and see where it is placed!

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

People feel so patriotic and they support their political party and candidate even if such is a liar, fornicator, thief and murderer. Now take that American flag at the church meeting and set it on fire all while trampling it into the ground and see where it is placed!

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I agree with Scripture. But, I don't think a real Christian would burn a geographical nation's flag to pick a fight. Jesus didn't burn roman symbols and he even paid the tax and said "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to GOD what is GOD's."