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Its the 3 1/2 year Wrath of God starting with the Seals ending with the Vials.When do you think the "day of Christ" starts?
Philippians 1:6....Philippians 1:10....2 Thessalonians 2
What events are shown in 2 Thessalonians 2 must come before that day begins?
Philippians 2:16
"Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ..."
So, is this showing the church is here now.......and will be here -till the day of Christ? yes
vinsight4u said in post #137:
Revelation 16 is not when Jesus Christ returns for the church.
vinsight4u said in post #138:
The church is raptured before any of the vials are poured out /full strengh/full measure.
Revealing Times said in post #142:
Its the 3 1/2 year Wrath of God starting with the Seals ending with the Vials.
How can the first seal be the wrath of God when the 5th seal martyrs speak as to He has yet to judge and avenge?
Why does the 6th seal have words that show the wrath of God begins then?
Why does the 7th trumpet also show the wrath of God does not begin till after it sounds?
Revelation 11:18 -shows very clearly what time and events are just being announced. Here is the big change point as to now it will be His wrath. This means that all of the 5th seal martyrs have come in first.
The two witnesses were slain and will soon rise with all of the other just at His return in the 6th seal.
That all makes sense, and the ten toes could represent the final ten kingdom empire.
5thKingdom said in post #155:
The Kingdoms of Daniel 2 are the same as the Kingdoms of Daniel 7 . . .
5thKingdom said in post #155:
(3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" consisting of all the "wheat and tares" during the Great Commission
5thKingdom said in post #155:
Daniel's Kingdoms cannot be known until the "time-of-the-end" [Dan 12:8-10] . . .
5thKingdom said in post #155:
. . . which is also called the "Season and Time" on earth after destruction of the Fourth Beast [Dan 7:11-12]
5thKingdom said in post #155:
. . . which is also called the "Season and Time" on earth after destruction of the Fourth Beast [Dan 7:11-12]
That's right.
For it's only after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" at Revelation 16's seventh-and-last vial, the final event of the future Tribulation (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2), that Jesus Christ will return and rapture (gather together) and marry the Church (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
Also, the world won't experience the seven last plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath (Revelation chapters 15-16), the final stage of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, until after the never-fulfilled Revelation chapters 6 to 15 have been fulfilled. At the first vial, an awful sore will appear on those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). At the second vial, the sea will become like the blood of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea will die (Revelation 16:3). At the third vial, all natural, surface sources of fresh water will become blood (Revelation 16:4). At the fourth vial, men will be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). This would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma, which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic-pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future Tribulation.
At the fifth vial, the whole world will be plunged into literal darkness (Revelation 16:10). At the sixth vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together to fight YHWH God Himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). The Euphrates will dry up so the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (that is, the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they have gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that's why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH) returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).
At the seventh vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The seventh vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).
*******
Then are you of the pre-wrath/seventh-trumpet rapture view, instead of the post-tribulation rapture view?
If so, note that regarding the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), it doesn't refer to any coming of Jesus. Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (to us) (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus Christ will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13), right when the seventh trumpet sounds. It won't be until a little later that Jesus will physically return and take de facto, physical control of the earth at His Second Coming and during the subsequent Millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).
Jesus' Second Coming won't occur immediately after the sounding of the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). It's like if someone said: "It's time to sell this house"; this doesn't mean it will get sold immediately. The only part of Revelation 11:18 which will happen immediately after the seventh trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come". For the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the Tribulation's final stage, will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).
So the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the Tribulation, won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the Church will be physically resurrected into immortality (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).
Before the Second Coming, the Tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days. For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5), which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible, 75-day vials-delay between Jesus Christ taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and His return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California, 75-five days before he moves there to live in that house.
At Jesus' Second Coming, only the Church will be physically resurrected and judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27). And then Jesus will marry the obedient part of the Church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and rewarding of the Church in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth in Revelation 11:18, could occur 75 days after the seventh trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.
Everyone not physically resurrected and judged at Jesus' Second Coming won't be physically resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected Church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), the time period commonly called the Millennium. Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos: G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people becoming Christians, which has been going on for thousands of years.
That's right.
For Daniel 2:31-33a,37-40 was fulfilled by the ancient empires of Babylon (head of gold: Daniel 2:38b), Medo-Persia (silver), Greece (brass), and Rome (iron), the same four empires pictured by the four beasts in Daniel 7.
Regarding the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30,36-43), in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect, and the tares are the nonelect, the human children of Satan, who can't ever believe in Jesus Christ (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 won't (as is sometimes claimed) occur at Jesus' future, Second Coming, but at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when non-Christians of all times will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43 the kingdom of God the Father is after the Great White Throne Judgment, when a New Earth (a new surface of the earth) will be created, and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the Church on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3).
Note that the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 is referred to in Revelation 12:14. And Revelation is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10). So the meaning of the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 was unsealed by the time Revelation was written down in the 1st century AD. Therefore, "the time of the end" in Daniel 12:4,9 must be "the end" in the same sense as in Hebrews 9:26 (see also 1 Corinthians 10:11b), which shows that (in one sense) "the end" of the world had already begun at the time of Jesus Christ's first coming and His crucifixion for our sins.
So Daniel 12:4b can be referring to many Christians, at anytime after Jesus' first coming and the writing down of Revelation (in 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), going to and fro, going back and forth, between the still-unfulfilled parts of Revelation and Daniel, and these Christians increasing their knowledge of what's going to happen in our future by seeing how much these two books complement each other (cf. Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13).
Also, Daniel 12:6,8 doesn't contradict the time of the end in Daniel 12:4,9 can begin before the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 and all the other "wonders" and "things" referred to in Daniel 12:6,8 have ended. For the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 refers only to the specific time period of 3.5 literal years which would later be shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13), the detailed events of which have never been fulfilled. And Daniel 12:6 refers to the specific "wonders" which the prophet Daniel had just been told about in Daniel 11:2 to 12:3, which also include detailed events which haven't yet been fulfilled (Daniel 11:31 to 12:3), including the Church's physical resurrection into immortality (Daniel 12:2-3) at the time of the future Antichrist's defeat (Daniel 11:45 to 12:3, Revelation 19:20 to 20:6), whereas Daniel 12:4,9 refers to a more general "time of the end" which began in the 1st century AD (Hebrews 9:26; 1 Corinthians 10:11b).
Regarding Daniel 7:11, note that in the preceding context, Daniel 7:10b could refer to the judgment of only the Church at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Matthew 25:19-30, Luke 12:45-48), which judgment will occur, along with the marriage of the Church to Jesus (Revelation 19:7), shortly before Jesus defeats the future Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, by casting him into the lake of fire (Daniel 7:11b, Revelation 19:20).
So Daniel 7:11a could refer to the future Antichrist, the voice of the horn, shortly before his destruction in Daniel 7:11b and Revelation 19:20, speaking great blasphemies against YHWH God (cf. Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) to try to build up the morale of the world's armies, which will have gathered together in an attempt to fight YHWH (Revelation 19:19, Revelation 16:14).
Daniel 7:11b refers to the future Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, being cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20). In Daniel 7, the Antichrist is considered to be part of the fourth beast (Daniel 7:23-25).
Regarding Daniel 7:12, note it doesn't (as is sometimes claimed) require the prior beasts didn't have their dominion (their empires) taken away before the future Antichrist's destruction in Daniel 7:11b and Revelation 19:20, but can mean they're different from the Antichrist in that they had a post-empire existence, in the sense that Babylon, even after its defeat as an empire in the 6th century BC, continued on as a thriving city for centuries (and it has even been rebuilt in our own time, in Iraq). And Medo-Persia continues on today as Iran and the Kurds. And Greece continues on as a nation. And Rome continues on as Italy. Also, Iraq, Iran, the Kurds, Greece, and Italy could continue to exist as distinct nations (not empires) during the future Millennium of Revelation 20:4-6, which won't begin until after the future Antichrist's destruction in Revelation 19:20, at Jesus Christ's (still unfulfilled) Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3.
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