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How do you use the Old Testament?

Discussion in 'UK and Ireland' started by MorkandMindy, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. I believe and follow all of it that can be applied by gentiles

  2. I believe it and find it gives necessary explanation of the N.T.

  3. I think it is God's word but I avoid it because so much is boring or violent

  4. I use it only for examples and do not trust it for doctrine

  5. I think the violent books Joshua - 2 Chron except Ruth should be discarded

  6. I 'cherry pick' from it

  7. I think it is unnecessary

  8. Other

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. OopsyDaisy

    OopsyDaisy Guest

    +0
    As far as I'm concerned 'evangelical' doesn't mean any of the above - it means 'happy message' - from angel - 'message/messenger' and eve - happy/good.
    Protestantism has gone down a sorry path into idiotic fundamentalism - that isnt evangel and it isn't about being born again.
    Justin Welby is an evangelical, but I don't think he is all of that stuff necessary to be included in those American fundy sects, which are getting more stupid as time goes on.

    I am an evangelical.
     
  2. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are quite right, I should have said:

    What happens if I follow your advice and become anti liberal / Fundamentalist and what if I don't?

    And how Fundamentalist?: Do I need to reject evolution?

    Do I need to believe the Earth is less than a million years old?

    Do I need to believe the stars, Sun and Moon were attached to the firmament?
     
  3. OopsyDaisy

    OopsyDaisy Guest

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    They usually afix a 'conservative' in front of evangelical - and that means the fundy, Bible thumping, Zionist, homophobic sort of religion which everybody in the UK detests.

    I think evolution/not is a rather personal matter. For me, I just don't believe that it is true, and I am fed up with the establishment drumming on about it all the time.
    Same goes for the age of the earth.
    And astronomy.

    I hold to a geocentric paradigm. But that is not religion based, as I don't believe anything much in the Hebrew bible - it is based on my research on the topic.

    I think you gotta get out of the established churches what you can - they will never shape up, and havnt done anything since the Reformation, except take backward steps.
    I hold to some basic Christian stuff - the fundamentals of Christianity, not Judaism.
    For me - I want proper communion ritual. Proper baptism ritual. Singing. And good friendly people. And that's what I get from the evangelical wing of the Anglican church - and nowhere else.
     
  4. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes, that set of beliefs all go together, basically it is what the oil companies want in religious thinking, Christians who focus on sexual behaviour and just aren't interested in how many people the military is killing in what country.

    And the Christians emphasize how much of the Bible they believe vs other far more compassionate Christians who believe less of it and therefore can be dismissed as not true Christians.

    Something people sometimes forget is as well as the oil company involvement in starting Fundamentalism, that Fundamentalism is not primarily pro anything but is primarily anti-progressive, pretty much anti-everything in fact:
     

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  5. theFijian

    theFijian Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Use it how Jesus used it:

    Luke 4:20,21 - Then he rolled up the scroll (Isaiah 58:6; 61:1,2), gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. [sup]21[/sup]He began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing".

    Luke 24:27 - And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself
     
  6. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I would agree with that but there is more than one way to do good.


    I would suggest that Jesus validated not only the existing Hebrew scriptures but also the theologians and the liberals as well, all three of the main parts of the existing Church.


    1. Scripture - this is where most people start, simple at least you know exactly what you are dealing with and everyone understands everyone else - it is a common culture. Satan used it in the temptations and Jesus also used it in his replies, and used scripture elsewhere.

    2. Theology - I suspect the Rabbis had to put in a lot of thought and debate to take a piece from Leviticus, add it to a piece from Deuteronomy and then, the big step, to declare it to sum up the law and the prophets.

    Wow, those were some dudes, and they got it right.

    3. Reason - the core strength of the Liberals. Jesus did not refer to any scripture when declaring that the worst sin was to decry the good work done by the Holy Spirit as evil. The literal application of the third (or second) commandment: 'thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain' was to never use the name of the Lord at all, that seemed to fix it. But Jesus said that declaring good to be evil was a sin that left the sinner with no possible way to be saved.
     
  7. Simonline

    Simonline The Inquisitor

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    Just start with the correct view of the Tanach (Old Testament) as the Word of God (Isa.40:6-8). If God incarnate regarded the Tanach as absolutely authoritative then dare we regard it any differently?

    Simonline.
     
  8. Simonline

    Simonline The Inquisitor

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    Same answer (see above).

    Holding to the fundamentals of the Judeo-Christian faith does not mean that one has to ape the extreme elements of the Judeo-Christian faith. The Messiah himself was thoroughly fundamentalist and no-one has yet denounced him as a fundamentalist weirdo though many have said that his message is unpalatable and rejected him accordingly (for which they will all have to give an account at the Day of Judgement).

    Simonline
     
  9. Simonline

    Simonline The Inquisitor

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    Not everybody. Some of us actually believe in the Bible as the Word of God and seek to live in accordance with its principles and teachings without trying to redefine it in our own image in order to try and neutralize its power and effectiveness over our lives.

    How can Evolution be a personal matter any more than your existence and participation on this forum is a 'personal matter' (so if I choose to believe that you really have no objective existence and that you're not participating on this forum then, objectively, you don't really exist?! How utterly stupid! Evolution is not a matter of opinion it is a lie espoused by secular humanists who are themselves rebelling against the truth (Rom.1:18-32; Col.1:15-16) and trying to force everyone else to do likewise.)?!

    Both geocentricity and heliocentricity are true depending on one's perspective. The Scriptures were written for man and therefore from man's perspective (which is why the creation accounts in Genesis are geocentric (because man is situated on the Earth rather than the sun)) but that did not mean that the Earth is or ever was the centre of the solar system.

    I suggest that you research the dvd series 'Learn the Bible in 24 hours' by Charles 'Chuck' Missler of Koinonia Institute http://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/606/ https://resources.khouse.org/bible_24_hours/dvd25/ I promise, that will be a revelation to you.


    You need to realize that the roots of the [Judeo-]Christian faith are Jewish (Rom.9-11) and that, independent of its Jewish roots, all Christianity is illegitimate. Not that everyone has to proselytize to Judaism but that Gentile believers in the Jewish God, whilst not themselves being Jewish (but not living as Gentile Pagans either (Acts.15)), need to recognize the spiritual roots and authenticity of their faith as Jewish. YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Messiah as God incarnate was born, lived, died, was resurrected and will return to Earth as THE orthodox Jew [NOT Palestinian] reigning from Jerusalem and every nation on Earth will travel to Jerusalem (at Sukkot (a.k.a. the Feast of Tabernacles)) to pay him homage (Ps.2)...or get no rain (Zech.14:16-21).

    See The Mystery of Israel Mystery of Israel ยป About “MysteryofIsrael.org”

    Simonline
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  10. Simonline

    Simonline The Inquisitor

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    This is definitely an unfair comparison. The Messiah emphasized that whilst emphasizing those parts of Scripture which we think are important we should not neglect the rest of Scripture (Lk.11:42). Ethical behaviour within the military is just as important as ethical behaviour (including sexual behaviour) within personal relationships. As for people who have a high view of Scripture being less compassionate than those who have a low view of Scripture there is no legitimate grounds for such an assertion. If anything those with a high view of Scripture are more likely to be more authentically compassionate than those with a low view of Scripture who rely on a relativistic situational ethics as the basis of their 'compassion' (especially when it comes to things like abortion, infanticide and euthanasia)?!

    As for your last statement, that is sheer nonsense. See The Book That Made Your World by Vishal Mangalwadi http://www.amazon.com/Book-that-Made-Your-World/dp/1595555455 or the dvd series Must The Sun Set on the West? based on Mangalwadi's book The Book That Made Your World Must the Sun Set on the West? An Indian Explores the Soul of Western Civilization: Amazon.com: Books

    Simonline.
     
  11. tonybeer

    tonybeer Newbie

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    Evolution is a demonstrable fact. I myself attended a series of lectures on paleontology given by a hardcore Christian so to say it is just secular people who believe it is just plain wrong.

    To quote Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project and a Christian -

    "Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things"
     
  12. Shuvah77

    Shuvah77 Newbie

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    Much to learn from the O.T. for instance Daniel 8 the rough goat is Alexander the great who smote the ram {Media/Persia} at the Battle of Granicus in the year 334B.C. if you then add the 2300 {evening /morning sacrifices} it makes the year 1967 {add 1 to account for the 0 crossing from B.C. to A.D.} In 1967 the remaining edifice of the 2nd Temple namely the Western Wall was indeed cleansed/sanctified {Gamal Nasser was also "broken without hand" v25 a presumed heart attack} 2300 days is also a little over 6 years in turn a little over 6 days, the length of the war.
     
  13. OopsyDaisy

    OopsyDaisy Guest

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    It took me about 3 years of study to work out that the book of Daniel is a load of old made-up rubbish. I could have just listened to what the sceptics have been saying for years and save myself all that bother.
    Same goes for the rest of the the Torah and Old Testament - garbage in, garbage out.
     
  14. theFijian

    theFijian Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for your balanced, measured and articulate opinion
     
  15. Nige55

    Nige55 Newbie

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    LOL ! ^_^^_^ Exactly what I was thinking.
     
  16. OopsyDaisy

    OopsyDaisy Guest

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    You are more than welcome, kind friend.
     
  17. NIrelandGillian

    NIrelandGillian Member

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    Such a relief to see those who believe in the authenticity of the Old Testament. the Bible, Old and New Testaments, is the Word of God and I don't see how anyone who says they are Christian can discount large chunks of it.

    I am also concerned that there are so many Christians who ignore the Old Testament and know very little about it.

    I would recommend 'The Bible Jesus Read' by Philip Yancey - which, of course, was what we know today as the Old Testament.

    Gillian
     
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