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How do you use metaphysics to get closer to God?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by rturner76, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I read about a pretty significant difference between West and East on this. I read that RCC teaches we cannot fully experience God while still in the flesh. We must pass away to be with him. I also read that through metaphysics, which the EO emphasizes and Rome doesn't, it is possible for some to experience God's presence while still in the flesh. Very few have been able to do it but I believe the practice would bring us closer to God even if most of us won't experience his presence on Earth.

    First of all, is this true? Second I haven't found much information on how to pray or meditate metaphysically or using metaphysics, I'm not sure how to describe the practice.

    All of the questions I ask in here are in an effort to truly understand Orthodoxy not just intellectually but spiritually. Right now I feel the most connected to got at Eucharist. The concept of metaphysics I am very curious about because it seems it's another way to physically connect with God.

    So is anyone here knowledgeable about metaphysics? What it is and how we use the concept?
     
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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    To remember what metaphysics is, I have to look up the definition most every time. I can't recall at the moment. (Even though at times some understandings can be helpful for people to undo blocks, there is also just prayer as the ultimate way to undo blocks) But, wonderfully, I can best go the right way as I follow what Christ said.

    By doing what He said to do through His words to us in the 4 gospels, these things and more will be added to us. His is the way for drawing closer to God (and for opening your heart to God also, by doing the 'greatest commandment' as Christ said it). Then I found out how amazing God's love is. It seems as if this is kind of what I think is the EO way, but put into different words (I'm not in an EO church). Maybe someone can help me learn better the way EO would word that answer. (update) -- there's an EO answer just below in post#4
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  3. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    You can't.
     
  4. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    metaphysics doesn't draw folks close to God, prayer and the sacraments do. and we experience God every time we go to Church.

    how spectacular that experience is, is another question.
     
  5. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    the Gospel accounts of the Transfiguration say otherwise.
     
  6. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    That's the word of God, it's not doing metaphysics to get "closer" to God.
    The Bible is as metaphysical as you can get & points to GOD. It is God-breathed , it says it is light unto my path, sharper-then a two-edged sword, it is living and active separating bone and marrow and soul and spirit--it even judges the intentions and thoughts of the heart! Hebrews 4:12
    How do get closer to GOD? prayer, worship and studying His word.
     
  7. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    oh, sorry, I thought you were saying you can't know God still in this life.

    gotcha now, nevermind me.
     
  8. JohnTh

    JohnTh Newbie

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    Commandments. Just few of the commandments are the ones above. The most difficult ones are the ones related to our neighbor.....
     
  9. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The only way to experience closeness to God is believe that Christ's death and resurrection was enough for your salvation, confessing you need for him because of your sin, and asking him to send the Holy Spirit into your heart.

    Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? ​

    Everything else is irrelevant.
     
  10. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    I am not sure what you are specifically meaning when you use the term "metaphysics".

    We will always be drawing closer to God and experiencing Him more profoundly throughout eternity. That begins now, and continues forever. We will never fully experience God, as God is eternal and boundless.
     
  11. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I think I mentally merged metaphysical awareness with revelation. I was thinking that Orthodox Philosophy says truth is obtained through revelation rather than scholasticism.

    Can awareness of the metaphysical aid in revelation?

    What I mean by metaphysics is all reality, seen and unseen.

    I was reading something about Symeon that said " One of his principal teachings was that humans could and should experience theoria (literally "contemplation," or direct experience of God).

    This led me to believe that contemplating the metaphysical universe will help us actually experience God or the energy of God, not only praise and worship him to experience him. I equated that to a physical experience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  12. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Is this going deeper into a essence/energies topic?
     
  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    it certainly can.
     
  14. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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    From what I've read about St. Symeon regarding his experiences with theoria it was a result of what Fr. Matt mentioned above - the sacraments, and prayer.

    You may be thinking of Hesychasm, but metaphysics is something different.
     
  15. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    As you can see, I have completely confused myself doing this kind of self-guided study. I read things from many sources, some academic which may be more focused on some aspect of philosophy which may be a personal interpretation.

    Does anyone have some suggestions as to what online sources are credible and useful?
     
  16. rturner76

    rturner76 Senior Veteran Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Here is some of what I was reading:

    "Symeon repeatedly describes the experience of divine light in his writings, as both an inward and outward mystical experience. These experiences began in his youth, and continued all during his life. They came to him during inward prayer and contemplation, and were associated with a feeling of indescribable joy, as well as the intellectual understanding that the light was a vision of God."

    Wikipedia-Mystical Theology.
    Mystical theology - Wikipedia
     
  17. AMM

    AMM A Beggar Supporter

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    I was advised to read some of these when I was entering the Church
    The Orthodox Faith
     
  18. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    for stuff to read, I say ask your priest.
     
  19. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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  20. Antoni

    Antoni Member

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    I would recommend the writings of Wolfgang Smith, a Roman Catholic metaphysicist. He delves into the major problems being confronted right now in quantum physics and cosmology and gives a fascinating apology regarding vertical causation and how it is the Christian Saints and mystics who have truly understood the nature of things. For those with an interest in quantum physics and metaphysics, I highly recommend his writings, much which can be found online for free.
     
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