Futurist Only How do you reconcile 2 Thess. 2:8 with the Fate of the Beast in Revelation 19?

Warrior89

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In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul describes the fate of the Antichrist:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:8)
This cross-references to Isaiah 11:4, where it says:

but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.

It appears here that the word for "kill" in 2 Thessalonians means to take up, take away, or make an end. Strong's Greek: 337. ἀναιρέω (anaireó) -- to take up, take away, make an end

This also has support in Daniel 7:


“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. (Daniel 7:11)

To be fair, the latter could be referring to the beast kingdom, not an individual.

However, both these verses (2 Thess. 2:8 and Daniel 7:11) seems to be in conflict with what happens in Revelation 19.

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)​

Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?
 

Xenophon

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In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul describes the fate of the Antichrist:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:8)
This cross-references to Isaiah 11:4, where it says:

but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.

It appears here that the word for "kill" in 2 Thessalonians means to take up, take away, or make an end. Strong's Greek: 337. ἀναιρέω (anaireó) -- to take up, take away, make an end

This also has support in Daniel 7:


“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. (Daniel 7:11)

To be fair, the latter could be referring to the beast kingdom, not an individual.

However, both these verses (2 Thess. 2:8 and Daniel 7:11) seems to be in conflict with what happens in Revelation 19.

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)​

Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?

Well, the lake of fire is the second death, so I imagine getting thrown into while still living counts as 'being killed' in a way.

I don't see anything in Daniel 7 that puts a order to the actions. So, at least in that translation it looks like "killed, destroyed, and given over to be burned" can be interpreted as a single action or event.

Don't know if that helps.
 
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Timtofly

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In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul describes the fate of the Antichrist:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:8)
This cross-references to Isaiah 11:4, where it says:

but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.

It appears here that the word for "kill" in 2 Thessalonians means to take up, take away, or make an end. Strong's Greek: 337. ἀναιρέω (anaireó) -- to take up, take away, make an end

This also has support in Daniel 7:


“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. (Daniel 7:11)

To be fair, the latter could be referring to the beast kingdom, not an individual.

However, both these verses (2 Thess. 2:8 and Daniel 7:11) seems to be in conflict with what happens in Revelation 19.

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)​

Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?

The first point is remove Antichrist as a being. Antichrist is not mentioned in Daniel nor 2 Thessalonians 2. No man will ever exist with that title. The man in Daniel was not a Messiah, anointed one. The king in Daniel 11 who received power from Satan, who defiled the temple was fulfilled before Jesus Christ was born. He died. Now in Revelation 13, the first beast produces a similiar false prophet like Daniel's king in Daniel 11. Now compare Satan and this empowered king/false prophet combo in Daniel to 2 Thessalonians 2.

The man who seperates from the Torah, 500 years before Paul, who empowered a Greek king is the angel Satan. Satan takes on a half man half god persona. This is the man Paul starts out with, because only the angel Satan in the form of a man can live for 2500 years. Now we come to 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9

8 Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the glory of his coming.
9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders.

The one who embodies separation, no longer Satan, but this Greek king whom Satan empowered. Verse 9 confirms this. Satan is the one claiming to be God, that Paul starts out with, up until verse 8.

This soon to be FP empowered by Satan is somehow a restoration of Daniel 11, in the near future of a FP type of person who is "revived" when the Lamb shows up in the future destroying this human. Verse 8 is not the end of the original Greek king, nor the end of the FP cast into the lake of fire. There is an event where this FP and the Lamb face off. Satan shows up and revives this FP, in a miraculous way.

Neither Satan nor the FP are this final beast that all claim replace Christ. The beast in Daniel 7, if in Revelation at all is the image. The image is never named by John, but remains the beast. The same combo of Satan/FP in Daniel 11, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13 create an image (the beast) which is the abomination of desolation in a temple.

This beast is a human in the likeness of the FP. This beast is brought to life like Adam was brought to life by God. This is not flesh and blood though, but a literal beast. Although it will look like the perfect human specimen of another stage of human evolution. Perhaps part flesh, but mostly machine. It will be the Messianic prototype to change mankind out of sinful flesh into freedom, from the bondage of God's created human form. This will be the ultimate "Antichrist" to free us from "sin" and death. In Revelation 19:20, this beast and the FP will be cast into the lake of fire. Whatever happened in Satan's 3.5 years will all be destroyed in the battle of Armageddon.

Why does Daniel, Jesus, Paul, and even John in Revelation avoid naming a specific Antichrist. Paul's description is anti-Torah, anti-law, anti-God. It was never antichrist. Now John claims in other Scripture, many antichrists, and many with the spirit of antichrist. There is only one logical reason. This period of time has nothing to do with the church, nor Christians, and thus not Christ. The Lamb will have been on earth for months prior to Satan's time. Both Satan and a FP will have been exposed when they face the Lamb. No human will have any opportunity to come forward and present themselves as a Messiah. The church needs to take a new look at what God and the Lamb actually do in the seals and trumpets. At some point, the church got off track.

The Reformers accused the popes. The popes started anti propaganda. Theology attempted to fill in the dots. The church went left, and The NT went right. Now they are miles apart in thought. Satan literally worked inside the church to side track her from the Law, from the Torah, and frankly from the correct interpretation of Revelation. Now we have preterist, post mil, amil, post trib, historist, and hide behind futurist. No one knows up or down, but quotes verses to prove points.
 
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Running2win

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In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul describes the fate of the Antichrist:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:8)
This cross-references to Isaiah 11:4, where it says:

but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.

It appears here that the word for "kill" in 2 Thessalonians means to take up, take away, or make an end. Strong's Greek: 337. ἀναιρέω (anaireó) -- to take up, take away, make an end

This also has support in Daniel 7:


“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. (Daniel 7:11)

To be fair, the latter could be referring to the beast kingdom, not an individual.

However, both these verses (2 Thess. 2:8 and Daniel 7:11) seems to be in conflict with what happens in Revelation 19.

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)​

Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?
In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul describes the fate of the Antichrist:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:8)
This cross-references to Isaiah 11:4, where it says:

but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.

It appears here that the word for "kill" in 2 Thessalonians means to take up, take away, or make an end. Strong's Greek: 337. ἀναιρέω (anaireó) -- to take up, take away, make an end

This also has support in Daniel 7:


“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. (Daniel 7:11)

To be fair, the latter could be referring to the beast kingdom, not an individual.

However, both these verses (2 Thess. 2:8 and Daniel 7:11) seems to be in conflict with what happens in Revelation 19.

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)​

Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?

Here is a couple of short studies by Joel Richardson that could be a way. Also, I believe 2nd thess 2:8 is speaking of two separate events.

Bringing to and end at His coming/parousia. This is at the sixth seal when the beast/AC starts to partake in the wrath of God, and slowly starts be brought to his end at Armageddon. The slaying will happen at Rev 19 on the battlefield, then he will be resurrected only to be thrown alive into the lake of fire at the start of the MK.

The shameful burial place of the Antichrist - Joel's Trumpet


https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Thrown-Alive-into-the-Lake-of-Fire.pdf
 
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Douggg

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Here, the beast is not killed like in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, but captured. Furthermore, he is "thrown alive" into the Lake of Fire, not killed first.

How do you reconcile these two passages?
Cast alive into the Lake of Fire. But in Revelation 20, it says about being cast into the Lake of First as being the second death.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

For the beast person, his first death will be for going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God. God will bring strangers against him for committing that audacious act...and has the person killed.

Ezekiel 28:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

____________________________________________________

First death due to his last act as the Antichrist (King of Israel coming in his own name). God has him killed.

(Then in Isaiah 14:18-20, God in disdain for the person bring him back to life. Which the person then become the beast).

Second death (the lake of fire) due to his tyrant rule as the beast (King of the Roman Empire end time - the EU). Cast alive into the lake of fire which is the second death.
_______________________________________________________

btw, Warrior89, welcome to the forum.
 
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Sammy-San

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The first point is remove Antichrist as a being. Antichrist is not mentioned in Daniel nor 2 Thessalonians 2. No man will ever exist with that title. The man in Daniel was not a Messiah, anointed one. The king in Daniel 11 who received power from Satan, who defiled the temple was fulfilled before Jesus Christ was born. He died. Now in Revelation 13, the first beast produces a similiar false prophet like Daniel's king in Daniel 11. Now compare Satan and this empowered king/false prophet combo in Daniel to 2 Thessalonians 2.

The man who seperates from the Torah, 500 years before Paul, who empowered a Greek king is the angel Satan. Satan takes on a half man half god persona. This is the man Paul starts out with, because only the angel Satan in the form of a man can live for 2500 years. Now we come to 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9

8 Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the glory of his coming.
9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders.

The one who embodies separation, no longer Satan, but this Greek king whom Satan empowered. Verse 9 confirms this. Satan is the one claiming to be God, that Paul starts out with, up until verse 8.

This soon to be FP empowered by Satan is somehow a restoration of Daniel 11, in the near future of a FP type of person who is "revived" when the Lamb shows up in the future destroying this human. Verse 8 is not the end of the original Greek king, nor the end of the FP cast into the lake of fire. There is an event where this FP and the Lamb face off. Satan shows up and revives this FP, in a miraculous way.

Neither Satan nor the FP are this final beast that all claim replace Christ. The beast in Daniel 7, if in Revelation at all is the image. The image is never named by John, but remains the beast. The same combo of Satan/FP in Daniel 11, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13 create an image (the beast) which is the abomination of desolation in a temple.

This beast is a human in the likeness of the FP. This beast is brought to life like Adam was brought to life by God. This is not flesh and blood though, but a literal beast. Although it will look like the perfect human specimen of another stage of human evolution. Perhaps part flesh, but mostly machine. It will be the Messianic prototype to change mankind out of sinful flesh into freedom, from the bondage of God's created human form. This will be the ultimate "Antichrist" to free us from "sin" and death. In Revelation 19:20, this beast and the FP will be cast into the lake of fire. Whatever happened in Satan's 3.5 years will all be destroyed in the battle of Armageddon.

Why does Daniel, Jesus, Paul, and even John in Revelation avoid naming a specific Antichrist. Paul's description is anti-Torah, anti-law, anti-God. It was never antichrist. Now John claims in other Scripture, many antichrists, and many with the spirit of antichrist. There is only one logical reason. This period of time has nothing to do with the church, nor Christians, and thus not Christ. The Lamb will have been on earth for months prior to Satan's time. Both Satan and a FP will have been exposed when they face the Lamb. No human will have any opportunity to come forward and present themselves as a Messiah. The church needs to take a new look at what God and the Lamb actually do in the seals and trumpets. At some point, the church got off track.

The Reformers accused the popes. The popes started anti propaganda. Theology attempted to fill in the dots. The church went left, and The NT went right. Now they are miles apart in thought. Satan literally worked inside the church to side track her from the Law, from the Torah, and frankly from the correct interpretation of Revelation. Now we have preterist, post mil, amil, post trib, historist, and hide behind futurist. No one knows up or down, but quotes verses to prove points.

Do you think Satan leaves the Antichrist when he is punished?
 
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Timtofly

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Do you think Satan leaves the Antichrist when he is punished?
Satan does not possess any one. Does Satan have a spirit that posesses? In Revelation 16, the FP, the antichrist, and Satan all three have a demonic spirit come out of their mouths. They are sent out to call all humans to battle. At Armageddon the FP and antichrist are cast into the lake of fire. No time in 3.5 years is this image said to stop hunting down and beheading people.
 
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