How do you PRAY in TONGUES?

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vortigen84

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How do you PRAY in TONGUES?

The same way we drink poison without getting hurt:


Mark 16:17-18

And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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Sorry but I think you didn't read this verse..

1 Corinthians 14:2


2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.


Tongues are not just only foreign languages.. How can be it foreign while people doesn't understand? Bro, if it is just foreign language it will be understood..

I have read this chapter many times.

This verse does not say praying in tongues PRIVATELY , while the rest of this Passage in addition to Chapter 12 refers to speaking in Tongues CORPORATELY during a church service where interpretation is given .

Further, Acts 2 shows that Tongues were given which were unfamiliar to some in attendence , yet were recognizable to others (foreign languages) which these Hearers spoke .

Ergo, Tongues are for CORPORATE environments for the sake of the UNBeliever who may be in attendence , and, it is supposed to be a distinct foreign language which might be recognizable to some . And it is to be followed with an English interpretation (assuming the Corporate environment is filled with english speaking people) from ANother ....OR, by the Tongue Speaker himself because the Tongue Speaker is supposed to understand his own Tongue.

Here is a diligent treatise that a woman did concerning this topic :

"This is what I learned:
tounges means foreign language- look up the word for this gift in any language the Bible has been written in and look up that definition. you will find answers of "(foreign) language or dialect". Example is the original ancient Greek (glossolalia) which is 'to speak languages'. when someone down the road is said to speak a tounge, you know they speak a language or dialect unfamiliar to you.
So this means the churches who teach that tongues is also sounds of holy joy from the spirit such as chittering, laughing, crying, moaning, mooing, clucking or barking are incorrect.
tongues is plural- every reference to the gift in scripture is plural with only the exception of a specific person speaking a specific language. It is the ability to speak and/or understand foriegn languages.
So this means the churches who teach that tounges is a single language from heaven between God, angels and you, if you have the spirit, are incorrect.
there is only one kind of tounges gift- I never found any scriptural support for a tounges that was only for prayer and another that was for the congregation/public. All information from scripture points to the one ability of speaking foreign languages you previously didn't know.
So this means the churches who teach that there are different forms of tounges are incorrect.
tongues must be understood by all people around you and done in orderly fashion- this is something that Paul tried to pound into the heads of the Corinthian congregation. Everyone, including the speaker, must understand what was said either by already knowing that language or by a translator. Otherwise it was a waste of time and cannot be proven to be a genuine gift.
So this means the churches who practice mosh pit-like tongues extravaganzas or who never have an interpreted tongue message are in error.
tongues was for a sign to unbelievers and for edification of the church body- direct quotes from The Apostle Paul. Anyone who didnt believe Jesus was the real deal and that the church now belongs to ALL who believe would be proven wrong by the confirmation of this gift and that would in turn strengthen the church as a whole and add to it's ranks.
So this means the churches who teach that tongues is for a deeper personal connection to God is incorrect.
tongues may have passed away long ago-there are many compelling reasons to believe this to be true and i have acctually confirmed it for the gift of prophecy simply due to the biblical definition of a prophet. I personally haven't yet put a headstone on tongues, but i do say that if the genuine gift does still exist, it must be incredibly rare. I haven't experienced or heard of any credible accounts of the true gift being used combined that with the purpose and usefulness of such a gift is all but gone.
So this brings into question any church that teaches this gift is attainable, let alone mandatory for the church body.
When I did this study it was acctually hard to find a tongues supporter that was willing to talk about it. The one pastor I did find to talk to me gave his ideas of what it was all about and a few scriptures.. a couple of which had nothing to do with spiritual gifts or tongues. Even the Assembly of God main website stated that some of its core doctrine was not found in scripture, but was based on "assumptions and deductions from an apparent pattern found in the book of acts". it's like alot of people belived in it and had stories of experiences to tell me, but they couldnt tell me why or explain anything with any real satisfaction"
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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How is it possible to pray if you don't have a clue what you are saying?

You should know regardless of whether it is in your own language of English, or, a different language . And if you dont, then you may very well be saying something which is unpleasing to God or even defaming God since Satan could easily manipulate this ; thats why is important to MAKE SURE you have the real gift of Tongues and that it is used in strict accordance to the Bible .

In fact, many of the Cults actually speak in a different language which no one understands including the SPeaker. The Bible demands that the SPeaker know what he is speaking if theres no other INterpreter in order for the Tongue to be genuine . This too depends on the honesty and integrity of the Tongue Speaker for he/she could be committing a deliberate fraud ,or, a satanic counterfiet unbeknowns to the Speaker as is the case today in many churches due to the pressure to have this gift (the 'haves' versus the 'have nots') .

If God chooses to give this gift, it will be just as naturally given as all the other spiritual gifts that come from God ... and it wont require any human effort , priming of the pump by well meaning Pastors at the Alter, and only require simply prayer from the Individual to have all the gifts God wants to give so greater service to God , the Church, and Others... can be a reality.
 
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Albion

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You should know regardless of whether it is in your own language of English, or, a different language . And if you dont, then you may very well be saying something which is unpleasing to God or even defaming God since Satan could easily manipulate this

That's what I would think. Or it would be useless sounds at best and therefore not prayer.
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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That's what I would think. Or it would be useless sounds at best and therefore not prayer.

Yes...in the least it would be this....and at the most it could take on a more sinister roll by allowing Satan to work his ways with the Speaker not knowing what he is saying/meaning .
 
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briareos

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Sorry but I think you didn't read this verse..

1 Corinthians 14:2


2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.


Tongues are not just only foreign languages.. How can be it foreign while people doesn't understand? Bro, if it is just foreign language it will be understood..

^^ This...

Good job not losing sight of what was actually said. Let's not over simplify the topic, you have to account for all of it. Paul indeed said that no one understands and that even the speakers understanding was fruitless. He specifically called it prayer and worship also and that the speaker even sometimes needs to pray that so he himself may interpret.

The idea that tongues are ONLY for use in a congregation, as a foreign known language as a message to others that must be interpreted by others is not the least bit compatible with the details of that chapter.
 
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Albion

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Paul indeed said that no one understands and that even the speakers understanding was fruitless. He specifically called it prayer and worship also and that the speaker even sometimes needs to pray that so he himself may interpret.

Wouldn't that amount to him "praying" for things not intended by him? Putting prayerful words into the person's mouth, in other words. This might be called some kind of praise but I don't see how it can be called prayer.
 
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briareos

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What regard do you have for the fact that Paul actually used the word "pray" when he described it? Whether the prayer is determined, known, driven by the speaker or not... how does that remove the identifying nature of prayer from what is happening or undermine the veracity and accuracy of what Paul actually said?

Further more the implication that anything must be realized or known by the participant is removed by the statements in the chapter, Paul specifically said that if a person speaks in tongues they should pray for the ability to interpret it, this removes the idea that an interpretation isn't necessary or that the person knows what was being said or communicated or that it's standard that someone listening will understand it or that it must be interpreted at all to be true.

Sometimes that interpretation takes prayer and by the speaker himself.
 
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Albion

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What regard do you have for the fact that Paul actually used the word "pray" when he described it? Whether the prayer is determined, known, driven by the speaker or not... how does that remove the identifying nature of prayer from what is happening or undermine the veracity and accuracy of what Paul actually said?

I'm asking the question apart from that point, yes. 'Prayer'' means something to us and this doesn't appear to be prayer. If you want to offer some exegesis by way of explaining how what seems not to be prayer actually has the qualities of prayer, go ahead. Almost every known definition of prayer means to petition or ask, and obviously that would seem to be missing if the person did not know what he was saying until after the fact.
 
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briareos

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I edited and added a bit more to my post, if you didn't see that.

The basis of my assertion relies on Paul's authority on the subject and noting what he actually said, also upon the lack of reason in identifying something as contrary to prayer only for the idea that the such a petition is not understood by the participant.

I would use Romans 8.26 as a reference though not an authoritative one.

Romans 8.26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Paul also used similar words in
1 Cor 14.
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

Here Paul speaks of prayer that is not understood by the person praying.
 
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Albion

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I edited and added a bit more to my post, if you didn't see that.

The basis of my assertion relies on Paul's authority on the subject and noting what he actually said, also upon the lack of reason in identifying something as contrary to prayer only for the idea that the such a petition is not understood by the participant.

Lack of reason? No, I explained why it can't be a petition if the one allegedly praying doesn't have any intention in mind. That should be beyond argument IMO. And as for what Paul said, here's your comment:

Paul specifically said that if a person speaks in tongues they should pray for the ability to interpret it

OK that's about prayer after the fact. It doesn't answer the question about the unknown sounds that previously were uttered.

I would use Romans 8.26 as a reference though not an authoritative one.

Romans 8.26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Paul also used similar words in
1 Cor 14.
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

Apparently the idea is that we can be praying without knowing it. No one I've met so far seems willing to explain how that can be. Either we are to believe that our spirit is doing something without our knowledge or the Holy Spirit is praying, and we are just channelling words back to him. Neither of those makes much sense.
 
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Boidae

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I have prayed to be able to pray in tongues during my private time with God, I have opened my mouth to allow those tongues to come forth, but they haven't. My wife has done the same thing and she still does not pray in tongues.

So we continue on and pray that we will and believe that if God wants us to, He will allow us to, but until that point English will have to do.
 
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Albion

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I have prayed to be able to pray in tongues during my private time with God, I have opened my mouth to allow those tongues to come forth, but they haven't. My wife has done the same thing and she still does not pray in tongues.

Well, whatever one thinks about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, we know that they are just that -- gifts. While we may pray for them, we know that God bestows as he sees fit and gives differently to each of us.
 
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Boidae

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Well, whatever one thinks about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, we know that they are just that -- gifts. While we may pray for them, we know that God bestows as he sees fit and gives differently to each of us.

Isn't that what the second half of my post essentially said?
 
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briareos

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Albion,

You are missing what I am saying

Paul clearly spoke of praying in tongues, he called it prayer.


For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
It matters not that that makes little sense to you or that you are confused about how it could be prayer considering the knowledge of the participant.

Also... that Paul saying we should pray for the ability to interpret our own tongues undermines several ideas
These false ideas are as follows

1. That we will understand what we speak
2. That someone else will understand what we speak
3. That someone else must interpret what we speak
4. That if not interpreted what we spoke was false
5. That an interpretation will always happen
6. That an interpretation is not or should not be necessary (which would be the case if tongues were only known foreign languages like in early Acts)

Also, the idea that the spirit is doing something we are unaware of is an obvious truth of the situation given what Paul said. It should also be considered that Paul did identify these actions as prayer and worship... that connotes that Paul felt it was possible to know whether or not you were praying or worshiping. What is not known is what it is that you are praying but that does not change what a prayer is.

The sounds being unknown is perfectly congruent with what Paul said given he said that
1. No man understands it
2. Minds are unfruitful
3. He compared it to unidentified musical notes.
4. That we should pray for the ability to interpret it ourselves.
 
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Albion

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Albion,



No it's not, I was referring to Paul's statement





You are missing that that is simply what Paul said would happen.

OK, if you have no answer for my question, I can only conclude that you've misunderstood Paul's meaning. Thanks for your time.
 
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